President Donald Trump: The Thread

[Quin]

So, Trump is going to end DACA. Which will end up costing the country nearly 800,000 people, who have only known this as their home their entire lives, their jobs and the economy hundreds of billions.

 

Cause screw Obama and Mexico.

[BaconOnAStick]

DACA is garbage. Glad to see it go. The solution to the illegal immigration problem is a path to citizenship, not renewable two-year visas and constant deferrals. Make them citizens now. All 800,000 of them. The Democrats had 8 years to figure out how to fix this and they never did, just more crap policies like DACA that ensured the illegal immigration problem would remain unsolved. Now that there's a 6 month clock ticking its time for the sensible solution that has been readily apparent to everyone paying attention the last couple decades to finally be implemented: Everyone currently here gets to stay here, but after that is done there's no more illegal crossings. No more sanctuary cities or any of this other trash legislation that is specifically designed to keep these people in legal limbo.

[Quin]

DACA is garbage. Glad to see it go. The solution to the illegal immigration problem is a path to citizenship, not renewable two-year visas and constant deferrals. Make them citizens now. All 800,000 of them. The Democrats had 8 years to figure out how to fix this and they never did, just more crap policies like DACA that ensured the illegal immigration problem would remain unsolved. Now that there's a 6 month clock ticking its time for the sensible solution that has been readily apparent to everyone paying attention the last couple decades to finally be implemented: Everyone currently here gets to stay here, but after that is done there's no more illegal crossings. No more sanctuary cities or any of this other trash legislation that is specifically designed to keep these people in legal limbo.

 

Sigh

[BaconOnAStick]

Oh yeah they clearly solved the immigration crisis. Right. We'll never worry about that one again.

[Soxbadger]

Oh yeah they clearly solved the immigration crisis. Right. We'll never worry about that one again.

 

I think its the faulty premise of your argument, not that the immigration problem is solved.

 

The Republican party nominated a President who is arguably the most anti-immigrant President in the last 20+ years. The only chance your idea has is with the Democratic party.

[Dick Allen]

Harvey has been a wonderful thing. A lot of happiness in Houston. Is he serious?

 

 

Also they are already walking back is $1 million "donation" from his "personal" money. Maybe the Secretaty of State in Texas told him he would prefer prayers.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

DACA is garbage. Glad to see it go. The solution to the illegal immigration problem is a path to citizenship, not renewable two-year visas and constant deferrals. Make them citizens now. All 800,000 of them. The Democrats had 8 years to figure out how to fix this and they never did, just more crap policies like DACA that ensured the illegal immigration problem would remain unsolved. Now that there's a 6 month clock ticking its time for the sensible solution that has been readily apparent to everyone paying attention the last couple decades to finally be implemented: Everyone currently here gets to stay here, but after that is done there's no more illegal crossings. No more sanctuary cities or any of this other trash legislation that is specifically designed to keep these people in legal limbo.

Democrats haven't controlled the House since 2010 or the Senate since 2014. A bipartisan coalition attempted immigration reform at one point, but it was blocked by Republicans in the House after it had passed the Senate. DACA was the best Obama could do without Congressional support.

 

If DACA is garbage and you're glad to see it go, you're saying you're glad that hundreds of thousands are now facing deportation because there's zero chance this Congress and especially this President does anything to protect them. Hell, it was only a couple of weeks ago that Trump was proposing we slash legal immigration by 50%, and DHS via ICE and CBP had greatly stepped up some pretty disgusting (imo) deportation tactics coupled with the DOJ threatening to withhold resources from "sanctuary cities."

 

The idea that this will result in any sort of legal status within the next six months does not seem to be based on anything in reality. The federal government is currently run by people deeply antagonistic to immigrants and who have promised to deport as many of them as possible.

[Brian]

Duke killing it in here.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Brian

[MexSoxFan#1]

Harvey has been a wonderful thing. A lot of happiness in Houston. Is he serious?

 

 

Also they are already walking back is $1 million "donation" from his "personal" money. Maybe the Secretaty of State in Texas told him he would prefer prayers.

He also promised one million dollars for Katrina but never actually came through.

 

Only two possible explanations...he either is not nearly as rich as he claims and donating that money would hurt or if he actually is worth what he says he is, from 8-10 billion, depending on how he feels that day (he actually said that), and he's to cheap to donate, then he is literally a monster. One million bucks for someone that rich is basically nothing.

 

[Quin]

Haven't kept up with this at all, can you source these? I am trying to understand how it costs the economy hundred of billions.

 

 

Here's Fortune on the lost revenue $460B lost

 

http://fortune.com/2017/08/31/daca-dreamer...s-donald-trump/

 

It would also cost $8.5B to deport the dreamers

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politic...ional-spending/

[BaconOnAStick]

I don't disagree that their economic contributions are probably overstated, but to me that doesn't matter. They grew up in the USA, they speak fluent English, there is nothing for them back in Mexico (or wherever). It's really a humanitarian duty to give them a clear path to citizenship. DACA is not a clear path to citizenship. It is a promise by the Democrats not to deport them, which is a pretty shady and manipulative tactic keeping citizenship just past arms length.

 

Democrats, particularly the core of urban liberals that run the party, have zero interest in securing the southern border. I think for a lot of the right that is the principle issue. What if Trump promised a path to citizenship for everyone currently here but in return wanted the wall built and much harsher penalties for people here illegally? That to me is the perfect solution. Also the sanctuary city crap has to end. We are a nation of laws, there cannot be cities openly flaunting federal law on such an important issue.

[GoSox05]

We are a nation of laws, Dammit!*

 

 

 

*These laws do not apply to Joe Arpaio.

[StrangeSox]

A bipartisan group in the Senate passed a DREAM act that would have made DACA law. House Republicans blocked it. I'm not sure why you keep trying to blame Democrats for that. Obama issued the DACA EO since that was the most he could do without the cooperation of the House.

[BaconOnAStick]

A bipartisan group in the Senate passed a DREAM act that would have made DACA law. House Republicans blocked it. I'm not sure why you keep trying to blame Democrats for that. Obama issued the DACA EO since that was the most he could do without the cooperation of the House.

DACA is anti-humanitarian trash whether it's an EO or law. You can't "b-b-b-but Republicans" your way out of this, the Democratic proposals from the start have been flawed. If there isn't a clear path to citizenship built directly into a bill it's not a solution. Unless your solution is to deport them all, which is both a bad idea and impossible.

 

Giving people uplifting labels like "Dreamers" is a cheap marketing tactic that should know better than to fall for. All they have to dream about is constant two year deferrals that they hope to ride and ride forever. How can DACA not be interpreted as a move exploiting children and teenagers statelessness? "Oh we're not gonna kick you out the country--for now", yeah...what compassion.

[BigSqwert]

"Oh we're not gonna kick you out the country--for now", yeah...what compassion.

 

And apparently, your compassionate response is "We will definitely kick you out in 6 months. Take care!"

[BaconOnAStick]

And apparently, your compassionate response is "We will definitely kick you out in 6 months. Take care!"

This is a move to force an actual solution. Congress can either keep #resisting or solve this, but I'm not hopeful. Liberals hate Trump so much they'd rather march these 800,000 kids into a volcano than work with him on anything at all.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Alexeihyeess

[StrangeSox]

DACA is anti-humanitarian trash whether it's an EO or law. You can't "b-b-b-but Republicans" your way out of this, the Democratic proposals from the start have been flawed. If there isn't a clear path to citizenship built directly into a bill it's not a solution. Unless your solution is to deport them all, which is both a bad idea and impossible.

 

Giving people uplifting labels like "Dreamers" is a cheap marketing tactic that should know better than to fall for. All they have to dream about is constant two year deferrals that they hope to ride and ride forever. How can DACA not be interpreted as a move exploiting children and teenagers statelessness? "Oh we're not gonna kick you out the country--for now", yeah...what compassion.

 

DACA was the most that could be done within the confines of an EO. It was an improvement over their previous status and what is their future status, which is zero protections and possible deportation at any time. How is granting that whatever protections he could exploitation, but rescinding those protections isn't? How isn't DACA the more compassionate policy than pre-DACA and what we'll have next March?

 

The DREAM act of 2012 contained a path to citizenship. It was passed by Republicans and Democrats in the Senate in 2012, but the Republican leadership in the House refused to take it up. That's not "b-b-b-but Republicansing" my way out of anything, that's what actually happened. You were wrong when you said that Democrats had "8 years," and you're wrong again now.

[StrangeSox]

This is a move to force an actual solution. Congress can either keep #resisting or solve this, but I'm not hopeful. Liberals hate Trump so much they'd rather march these 800,000 kids into a volcano than work with him on anything at all.

 

This is a move by a deeply anti-immigrant administration to harm immigrants. They know that the Republican-controlled Congress won't actually do anything. Liberals do not control Congress and do not actually have the power to force this issue to come to a vote. When they did control the Senate, they passed a bill that was blocked by Republicans. You'll see that the common theme here is Republicans harming immigrants and doing nothing to solve this problem because a large portion of their base is fully behind the "DEPORT THEM ALL NOW" "BUILD THE WALL" nonsense.

 

 

Seriously, how do you look at the strongest Republican control of Congress in decades and still manage to whine about liberals?

Edited September 5, 2017 by StrangeSox

[BaconOnAStick]

This is a move by a deeply anti-immigrant administration to harm immigrants. They know that the Republican-controlled Congress won't actually do anything. Liberals do not control Congress and do not actually have the power to force this issue to come to a vote. When they did control the Senate, they passed a bill that was blocked by Republicans. You'll see that the common theme here is Republicans harming immigrants and doing nothing to solve this problem because a large portion of their base is fully behind the "DEPORT THEM ALL NOW" "BUILD THE WALL" nonsense.

 

 

Seriously, how do you look at the strongest Republican control of Congress in decades and still manage to whine about liberals?

Lmao this is insane rambling that has no basis in reality. Cartoon villainy.

[BaconOnAStick]

DACA was the most that could be done within the confines of an EO. It was an improvement over their previous status and what is their future status, which is zero protections and possible deportation at any time. How is granting that whatever protections he could exploitation, but rescinding those protections isn't? How isn't DACA the more compassionate policy than pre-DACA and what we'll have next March?

You know, I'm ok exploiting their status in an effort to give them full citizenship. That I don't mind. Maybe it's a little dirty and perhaps he's playing chicken with them as collateral a bit risky, but the ultimate goal is laudable. He wants to give them permanent status, and the only way to do that is by forcing the issue. If DACA stays then people keep thinking they've done something and lack motivation to actually solve it.

[StrangeSox]

Lmao this is insane rambling that has no basis in reality. Cartoon villainy.

 

So which part has no basis in reality?

 

That Trump ran on and continues to promote anit-immigrant ideas? He kicked off his campaign by ranting about Mexicans, claimed a judge with Mexican heritage is unqualified*, and one of the main themes of his whole campaign is that dumb ass wall. And just a few weeks ago, he came out in support of a proposal to cut legal immigration by 50%.

 

That House Republicans blocked the DREAM act in 2012? That's just basic legislative history. Boehner, who was then the leader in the House, flatly refused to bring the bill up for a vote and never offered any sort of alternative.

 

That liberals don't actually control Congress or any branch of the Federal government? Democrats haven't controlled the House since January 2011 and haven't controlled the Senate since January 2015. Whether or not they want to work with Trump isn't particularly relevant since it's up to the GOP what bills will actually get voted on. Trump has also not offered any actual policy (lol, of course he hasn't on this or any other issue, really) for anyone to work with him on, anyway.

 

You know, I'm ok exploiting their status in an effort to give them full citizenship. That I don't mind. Maybe it's a little dirty and perhaps he's playing chicken with them as collateral a bit risky, but the ultimate goal is laudable. He wants to give them permanent status, and the only way to do that is by forcing the issue. If DACA stays then people keep thinking they've done something and lack motivation to actually solve it.

 

Where is the evidence that the Trump administration wants these people to have permanent legal status? Everything he's said and done for the last 2+ years now seems to be the exact opposite of that. Sessions' statements today and Trump's press release both highlight the harm done to Americans by undocumented immigrants. Neither made a plea for compassion towards them or for reform to give them legal status; in fact, it was the opposite.

 

Trying to say that "liberals don't control the government" is insane rambling with no basis in reality and then immediately following it up with a claim that Trump actually wants immigrant friendly policy is some pretty top tier trolling, I'll give you that.

Edited September 5, 2017 by StrangeSox

[BaconOnAStick]

There is absolutely nothing racist or anti-immigrant about securing our southern border by building a wall. At all. It's something we desperately need to do, and for amnesty to work needs to happen in conjunction. It's a national security issue most importantly, I don't see how you could be reasonably against it.

[StrangeSox]

Did he really say that? That'd be insane. Link?

 

Trump claimed Curiel was biased against him because he is Mexican (Curiel was born in Indiana).

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-t...ory?id=46916250

"I have a judge who is a hater of Donald Trump, a hater," Trump said last May. "His name is Gonzalo Curiel and he is not doing the right thing."

 

He went on to say that he believed Curiel was showing bias and that he "happens to be, we believe, Mexican."

 

I should have easily won the Trump University case on summary judgement but have a judge, Gonzalo Curiel, who is totally biased against me.

 

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 30, 2016

Speaker Paul Ryan criticized Trump’s comments at the time as "sort of like the textbook definition of racism" and said he disavowed the remarks.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

There is absolutely nothing racist or anti-immigrant about securing our southern border by building a wall. At all. It's something we desperately need to do, and for amnesty to work needs to happen in conjunction. It's a national security issue most importantly, I don't see how you could be reasonably against it.

 

The wall is dumb as hell, pointless, an economic waste and an ecological disaster, but regardless you sort of ignored the whole bulk of the post there. Trump's had plenty of anti-immigrant rhetoric for years now and very recently supported a plan to reduce legal immigration by 50%. His administration's message on ending DACA focused on "American jobs" and did not urge Congress to offer a pathway to citizenship at all. Where is the evidence for the idea that Trump wants DACA recipients to gain legal status? How does that square with what his administration's done so far regarding immigration?

[StrangeSox]

He claimed that a judge wasn't qualified to preside over his case due to his Mexican heritage. I don't really care if you want to nitpick my chosen phrasing as the main point there was Trump's history of anti-immigrant rhetoric, which Trump himself admitted in the back and forth over Curiel.