President Donald Trump: The Thread

[StrangeSox]

Trump called Erdogan last week to apologize to him about the incident where Erdogan's thugs beat up protestors in the US.

[Quin]

Trump called Erdogan last week to apologize to him about the incident where Erdogan's thugs beat up protestors in the US.

 

America first!

[Kyyle23]

Trump called Erdogan last week to apologize to him about the incident where Erdogan's thugs beat up protestors in the US.

 

He loves those dictators

[StrangeSox]

Russians Appear to Use Facebook to Push Pro-Trump ‘Flash Mobs’ in Florida

 

Watts, the former FBI agent and a senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, noted that “plausible deniability is built into any Russian active-measures strategy,” such as using troll farms in St. Petersburg or Macedonia to conceal influence campaigns. But compelling unsuspecting Americans to gather in the streets on behalf of Trump shows the reach and efficacy of those efforts.

 

The page earned such a large following, a known Macedonian fake news distributor, Nikola Tanevski, purchased BeingPatriotic.com this year, but the page is currently dormant. Tanevski runs popular, pro-Trump fake news factories USATwentyFour.com and TheAmericanBacon.com. Attempts to reach Tanevski did not receive a response.

 

The layers of deception went beyond Facebook posts and manufactured rallies. When it wasn’t organizing events, Being Patriotic encouraged violence against minorities in incendiary posts. “Arrest and shoot every sh*thead taking part in burning our flag! #BLM vs #USA,” Being Patriotic’s Twitter account posted in April of 2016, using the hashtag for the Black Lives Matter protest movement.

 

The account also advertised a toll free “Being Patriotic Hotline” to report instances of voter fraud on election day.

 

“Detected a voter fraud? Tell us about it! Call 888-486-8102 or take photo/video and send it to us,” the account wrote on November 8th. Being Patriotic’s sister account, @March_for_Trump, plugged the same phone number, as well as a hotline for the “Trump Lawyer Team.” The number is now disconnected.

[StrangeSox]

Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/man...475e_story.html

 

Less than two weeks before Donald Trump accepted the Republican presidential nomination, his campaign chairman offered to provide briefings on the race to a Russian billionaire closely aligned with the Kremlin, according to people familiar with the discussions.

 

Paul Manafort made the offer in an email to an overseas intermediary, asking that a message be sent to Oleg Deripaska, an aluminum magnate with whom Manafort had done business in the past, these people said.

 

“If he needs private briefings we can accommodate,” Manafort wrote in the July 7, 2016, email, portions of which were read to The Washington Post along with other Manafort correspondence from that time.

 

The emails are among tens of thousands of documents that have been turned over to congressional investigators and Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s team as they probe whether Trump associates coordinated with Russia as part of Moscow’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 U.S. election.

 

Mueller casts broad net in requesting extensive records from Trump White House

 

The special counsel investigating Russian election meddling has requested extensive records and email correspondence from the White House, covering everything from the president’s private discussions about firing his FBI director to his White House’s handling of a warning that President Trump’s then-national security adviser was under investigation, according to two people briefed on the requests.

 

White House lawyers are now working to turn over internal documents that span 13 categories investigators for the special counsel have identified as critical to their probe, the people said. Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, appointed in May in the wake of Trump’s firing of FBI Director James B. Comey, took over the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election and whether the Trump campaign coordinated with the Russians in that effort.

 

The list of requests was described in detail by two people briefed on them. Both insisted on anonymity to discuss a sensitive investigation. Some details of the requests were first reported Wednesday afternoon by the New York Times.

 

 

[pettie4sox]

Obviously the investigation is still ongoing but what if and I am saying what if, they find Trump was involved with the Russians on the suspected level people claim?

 

Do his supporters still back him? Civil War? This is genuine question.

[Jenksismyhero]

Obviously the investigation is still ongoing but what if and I am saying what if, they find Trump was involved with the Russians on the suspected level people claim?

 

Do his supporters still back him? Civil War? This is genuine question.

 

Thing is no one that I've read/heard actually thinks Trump did any of this personally. And given the massive leaks that came out of his admn from even before he took office, i'd honestly be very shocked if any evidence came out that he did.

[Chisoxfn]

And DA There was nothing dramatic about that post. I never said that all of ESPN's misdeeds happened during games. Not sure why that even matters. They only punish employees of certain beliefs. That was the points. Their track record is irrefutable at this point.

When it came to Curt Schilling there was a lot more to his story then just that tweet.

[StrangeSox]

Thing is no one that I've read/heard actually thinks Trump did any of this personally. And given the massive leaks that came out of his admn from even before he took office, i'd honestly be very shocked if any evidence came out that he did.

 

Does it matter if Trump didn't do it personally if his entire campaign apparatus was working with a foreign power to undermine our elections and get him into office? That still would challenge the whole legitimacy of the election.

 

To answer K's question, I don't think Congress will do anything beyond expressing "grave concerns," and his base will flatly refuse to believe any of it.

[Balta1701]

Obviously the investigation is still ongoing but what if and I am saying what if, they find Trump was involved with the Russians on the suspected level people claim?

 

Do his supporters still back him? Civil War? This is genuine question.

As with 2k5 yesterday, the Wall Street Journal today is sounding the alarm about spying on Republicans during the 2016 race. Regardless of whether or not they were wrapping themselves up in criminals and people under surveillance as foreign agents and the surveillance was legal and not ordered by any politician and anything obtained with a FISA warrant is admissable.

 

If a tape comes out of Donald Trump personally offering the Russians sanctions relief in exchange for criminal acts, the Republicans will suddenly have huge hangups about the FISA court procedure.

 

As you can see earlier today, they're already ok with the Russians contributing advertising funds and organizing events for them.

[Chisoxfn]

I was not familiar ABC/Disney fired a future president for ripping Obama. Perhaps you should fact check the basis for your opinion here.

 

ESPN is not conspiring to make money. They are conspiring to make influence. Check out their viewers and subscription numbers since they've infused leftist politics into sports.

 

Edit: Also, I have stated I don't think ESPN should fire Hill. So not sure what you're talking about. I do think that they owe it to their employees to have some sort of consistency. I'm sure they love that #ESPNBoycott was trending.

 

If there's more money to be made from liberals than conservatives (not saying I disagree w/ you) why does Fox trump other news stations?

ESPN's ratings are not dropping because of leftist politics, they are dropping because of cord cutting and different trends in entertainment, period. I watch a good amount of ESPN and don't get that tied down into politics. In life sometimes politics will creep up, even in sports, but it isn't like slammed down your through 24/7.

[Chisoxfn]

ESPN's employees think there is a liberal bias. ESPN's study shows their viewers think there is a liberal bias. Not sure why it is so important for you to defend otherwise?

You can't take that info and jump to the conclusion that ESPN ratings are declining because of a liberal bias. Besides chord cutting another issue (which might be partially tied to chord cutting since it is more typical for a younger generation to chord cut) is the general aging of the sports viewership base.

 

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal...hip-trends.aspx

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Does it matter if Trump didn't do it personally if his entire campaign apparatus was working with a foreign power to undermine our elections and get him into office? That still would challenge the whole legitimacy of the election.

 

To answer K's question, I don't think Congress will do anything beyond expressing "grave concerns," and his base will flatly refuse to believe any of it.

 

 

"his entire campaign" is a bit of a stretch.

[StrangeSox]

FWIW I think Fox News' ratings have dropped year-over-year while MSNBC's and CNN's have increased. Fox might still be number one, but who cares, all cable news is garbage.

[Balta1701]

Thing is no one that I've read/heard actually thinks Trump did any of this personally. And given the massive leaks that came out of his admn from even before he took office, i'd honestly be very shocked if any evidence came out that he did.

I think it's worth noting how strategic the leaks have been. It wasn't leaked that Manafort was under surveillance since 2014 until yesterday when, at the same time, it was leaked that indictments are coming for him. They also leaked that there was a FISA warrant, so anything taped is actually admissible in court.

 

This sure looks like a person who is running an investigation trying to make it publicly known that they have his conversations on tape so that the people on the other side of those conversations knows they are implicated in a counterintelligence operation and can face charges if they do not cooperate.

 

That wasn't leaked at all until yesterday. I do think though that Donald Trump was told back in February, and that may have contributed to the "Obama wiretapped me!" claim on twitter. Entirely plausible that they did intercept some of his communications...legally, with a FISA warrant, and anything Donald Trump said in those conversations would be similarly admissible in court.

[StrangeSox]

"his entire campaign" is a bit of a stretch.

 

Ok, just ignore my occasional use of hyperbole and address the issue. His campaign manager is at the center of this. His own son tweeted out proof that he, Manafort and Kushner willingly and eagerly met with Russians promising information on Clinton.

 

If it's shown that one or more senior members of his campaign were definitely in bed with foreign agents and conspired with them to influence our elections, does it matter if Trump did not personally know? Wouldn't that just reward "won't someone rid me of this meddlesome priest" plausible deniability while his subordinates carried everything out?

[StrangeSox]

I think it's worth noting how strategic the leaks have been. It wasn't leaked that Manafort was under surveillance since 2014 until yesterday when, at the same time, it was leaked that indictments are coming for him. They also leaked that there was a FISA warrant, so anything taped is actually admissible in court.

 

This sure looks like a person who is running an investigation trying to make it publicly known that they have his conversations on tape so that the people on the other side of those conversations knows they are implicated in a counterintelligence operation and can face charges if they do not cooperate.

 

That wasn't leaked at all until yesterday. I do think though that Donald Trump was told back in February, and that may have contributed to the "Obama wiretapped me!" claim on twitter. Entirely plausible that they did intercept some of his communications...legally, with a FISA warrant, and anything Donald Trump said in those conversations would be similarly admissible in court.

 

They've also highlighted their growing financial crimes expertise and their cooperation with NY AG Schneiderman. This is potentially important because the President's pardon powers only apply to federal crimes.

[Jenksismyhero]

Ok, just ignore my occasional use of hyperbole and address the issue. His campaign manager is at the center of this. His own son tweeted out proof that he, Manafort and Kushner willingly and eagerly met with Russians promising information on Clinton.

 

If it's shown that one or more senior members of his campaign were definitely in bed with foreign agents and conspired with them to influence our elections, does it matter if Trump did not personally know? Wouldn't that just reward "won't someone rid me of this meddlesome priest" plausible deniability while his subordinates carried everything out?

 

You probably follow this stuff more than me, but I've yet to read anything linking their conversations/contacts with Russian agents to conspiracy to influence our elections. That's where you've skipped over into conspiracy land IMO. Manafort and Flynn made impermissible/illegal contact, but to what end we don't yet know. And in fact, it seems like this Manafort stuff is about his work in Ukraine, before he became involved in the Trump campaign.

[Soxbadger]

I doubt there is ever a smoking gun to connect it. You would have to be extremely careless and criminal prosecutions are way too hard.

 

I think at the end of the day the people are going to believe what they want.

 

My personal opinion is this:

 

Russia wanted badly to get out of economic hell and become a world player again. They saw Trump as a naive buffoon who they could potentially deal with. Russia did whatever it could to get Trump elected.

 

In a normal world this would be enough that parties would set aside their differences and put Russia in a much worse hell than they have ever been in as a statement that we will not tolerate outside meddling. I mean even John Huntsman thinks Russia meddled.

 

The only suspicious part is Trump's refusal to acknowledge it, but I actually believe that is more his ego.

[StrangeSox]

Donald Trump Jr literally tweeted out proof that they at least attempted to collude with Russians to influence the election.

 

Today a story on manafort came out that he offered to brief one of putting close allies on the inner details of the campaign.

 

His idiot son in law tried to set up a communications channel that the intelligence community wouldn't be aware of through the Russian embassy.

 

That stuff is all wapo nyt wsj etc reporting, not Reddit conspiracy nonsense.

[Balta1701]

You probably follow this stuff more than me, but I've yet to read anything linking their conversations/contacts with Russian agents to conspiracy to influence our elections. That's where you've skipped over into conspiracy land IMO. Manafort and Flynn made impermissible/illegal contact, but to what end we don't yet know. And in fact, it seems like this Manafort stuff is about his work in Ukraine, before he became involved in the Trump campaign.

The main detail we're missing right now is this one.

 

The Russians were able to buy Facebook ads and use social media to directly, precisely target areas in Michigan and Pennsylvania where they would have the most impact.

 

No one seems to think they would be able to spend their money supporting Donald Trump very precisely if they did not have access to non-public voter information, the sort that party committees keep and build upon every election.

 

Jared Kushner was involved in the Trump campaign's social media advertising "Microtargeting" campaign, that was doing the exact same sort of data processing and targeting of small groups that the Russians were able to make use of with their FB ad purchases and "Fake News" social media campaigns.

 

Every time one of these statements about how the Russians were spending money or organizing FB groups of Trump supporters comes out - that's information it would be difficult for the Russians to have if they didn't have access through the campaign.

 

That doesn't mean it's impossible - if so, then that means the Russians know more about how to control a US election than the US does and that should be the sort of thing terrifying anyone who isn't a Russian agent (they could decide they want the other party to win next time in exchange for something else. We might want to be scared of that). But for now, active collaboration as part of a trade/payback, where the Russians are leaking emails they hacked and targeting voters with that information using campaign information in exchange for a promise of sanctions relief is one way to make it happen. And that's why the reports of Facebook being questioned by Mueller's group is important.

[Soxbadger]

Donald Trump Jr literally tweeted out proof that they at least attempted to collude with Russians to influence the election.

 

Today a story on manafort came out that he offered to brief one of putting close allies on the inner details of the campaign.

 

His idiot son in law tried to set up a communications channel that the intelligence community wouldn't be aware of through the Russian embassy.

 

That stuff is all wapo nyt wsj etc reporting, not Reddit conspiracy nonsense.

 

I dont doubt that any of this happened. But it doesnt change my opinion that Russia put it all in motion because they saw Trump as weak and easily manipulated.

 

Irrespective of whether they are my friend or enemy, they are innocent until proven guilty. Lots of time to speculate on outcomes of court cases, but what we should be doing now is making Russia pay dearly.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

Donald Trump Jr literally tweeted out proof that they at least attempted to collude with Russians to influence the election.

 

Link? He had a meeting with someone who ended up being a known representative of the government. I don't buy he was meeting with someone about adoption, but I don't think there's any proof as to what they talked about and whether it was about specific actions in regards to the election. These are all greedy, corrupt mother f***ers, and I'd believe it was about business before the election 100 times out of 100.

 

Today a story on manafort came out that he offered to brief one of putting close allies on the inner details of the campaign.

 

In what regard? What did they discuss? What did Manafort request and what did Putin offer? That's the problem here, you keep saying it was to influence the election but there's zero evidence of that.

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

The main detail we're missing right now is this one.

 

The Russians were able to buy Facebook ads and use social media to directly, precisely target areas in Michigan and Pennsylvania where they would have the most impact.

 

No one seems to think they would be able to spend their money supporting Donald Trump very precisely if they did not have access to non-public voter information, the sort that party committees keep and build upon every election.

 

Jared Kushner was involved in the Trump campaign's social media advertising "Microtargeting" campaign, that was doing the exact same sort of data processing and targeting of small groups that the Russians were able to make use of with their FB ad purchases and "Fake News" social media campaigns.

 

Every time one of these statements about how the Russians were spending money or organizing FB groups of Trump supporters comes out - that's information it would be difficult for the Russians to have if they didn't have access through the campaign.

 

That doesn't mean it's impossible - if so, then that means the Russians know more about how to control a US election than the US does and that should be the sort of thing terrifying anyone who isn't a Russian agent (they could decide they want the other party to win next time in exchange for something else. We might want to be scared of that). But for now, active collaboration as part of a trade/payback, where the Russians are leaking emails they hacked and targeting voters with that information using campaign information in exchange for a promise of sanctions relief is one way to make it happen. And that's why the reports of Facebook being questioned by Mueller's group is important.

 

Didn't they hack both the DNC and RNC? Isn't that the easy answer to where they got that info? And the way the media covers the election, isn't the lay of our political map, down to the county level, easily attainable? Certainly the historical data is there. I don't think it would take much work to figure out which areas need targeted ads.

 

Sorry guys, I just don't buy it (yet). Russia has been hacking the world for decades now. Did they meddle in our election? Absolutely. Much like we do all over the world. Should it happen? No. Should Trump be making a bigger deal of it. Absolutely. But is it/was it an orchestrated move by Trumps campaign? Doubtful. As I said above, they're all about money. I'd bet my salary that all this back channeling was to make money on deals, not win the election.

Edited September 21, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[CrimsonWeltall]

Link? He had a meeting with someone who ended up being a known representative of the government. I don't buy he was meeting with someone about adoption, but I don't think there's any proof as to what they talked about and whether it was about specific actions in regards to the election.

 

Per the emails, the point of the meeting was for the Russians to provide dirt on Hillary Clinton that would help the Trump campaign.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07...email-text.html