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President Donald Trump: The Thread

Steve9347

By Steve9347
in The Filibuster

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Kyyle23 Grand Master

Kyyle23

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QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 02:08 PM)
Careful, I've seen a fake Flynn Jr. twitter account being passed around. Something about "Dad is a good guy, got caught up with bad people."

 

The real account doesn't have any post for the last few days (unless what you're referring to was deleted).

 

Yea i think i must be looking at the fake one.

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G&T Grand Master

G&T

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QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 04:04 PM)
Okay so the fact that he is even being offered such a lesser charge against him proves that whatever he can give Mueller must be f***ing juicy otherwise he would have been in jail for the rest of his life.

 

The fact that he had to plea guilty to anything means there were very bad charges. The level of cooperation is also telling. If the potential crimes were small, he wouldn't be facing jail time in exchange for cooperation.

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Dick Allen Grand Master

Dick Allen

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QUOTE (G&T @ Dec 1, 2017 -> 02:18 PM)
The fact that he had to plea guilty to anything means there were very bad charges. The level of cooperation is also telling. If the potential crimes were small, he wouldn't be facing jail time in exchange for cooperation.

It's now being reported he went to Jared. Bring them down. Jared was going to fix everything. Why does he have a security clearance again?

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Soxbadger Grand Master

Soxbadger

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2017 -> 08:42 PM)
Hope he enjoys his vacation.

 

They are going to argue its not illegal. If you look around, Trump's base is already of the opinion there is nothing wrong with Trump's people trying to undermine Obama while Obama was still in office.

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Balta1701 Grand Master

Balta1701

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 2, 2017 -> 10:50 PM)
They are going to argue its not illegal. If you look around, Trump's base is already of the opinion there is nothing wrong with Trump's people trying to undermine Obama while Obama was still in office.

If that was all it was then they are right.

 

If Donald Trump falls as president it is because he coordinated with a foreign power to commit a crime on United States soil to win an election.

 

Not because they were talking to a foreign power during the transition. That's to be expected, frankly. It's so minor that there's no reason that Flynn should have lied about it...unless his lie was covering up something much, much bigger.

 

That's the rule with these. "The coverup is worse than the crime" is false - what happens is that the normal players know everything about a major crime, but that major crime affects a ton of issues. The normal players in that crime feel compelled to lie about everything, even the minor things nearly unrelated to the actual crime, to try to cover up the big and real crime. Those lies are easily exposed. Flynn lying about a conversation that he knew was on tape. Sessions lying to Congress about the existence of a conversation he knew would be exposed. The only reason you lie about these things, when you know that their existence can be proven, is that you know you were talking about crimes during the conversation. You are lying about the minor, easily disproven details to cover up the real crime.

 

The coverup is the part that incriminates everyone, because they have to lie about every detail and some of those lies are easily disproven. They lie to the FBI about something that doesn't matter - "I spoke to a Russian ambassador about sanctions 2 weeks before we could do something about them" - that lie is totally unimportant. But it's so easily disproven, it's on the record, it's recorded, there's a FISA warrant, It's admissible in court, they can play the f***ing tape in front of you of you saying those things then testifying to the FBI 3 weeks later that you didn't say those things and ask you why you lied to the FBI.

 

So you then agree to testify to the minor crime, to the thing you lied about, and you give up the guys who ordered the major crime.

 

If all Michael Flynn had done was lie about this conversation then frankly I would not have cared. He wouldn't have faced any charges. He lied about this conversation to cover up a much bigger crime committed by someone in a position of much greater importance. The National Security Advisor only has so many people of higher rank that they can give up - the President, Vice President, and Cabinet Secretaries outrank him. The only reason he gets off with "lying about something inconsequential and 6 months" is he gave up one or more of those as involved in a much bigger crime - much bigger than just lying to the FBI about a transition team conversation.

 

The next one up might well only wind up with charges for lying to the FBI also. But if they do, it's because they told the story of the highest authority agreeing with a foreign power to commit a crime on US soil to support their election campaign. If whoever Flynn gave up doesn't wind up facing enormous charges it's because they gave up the President.

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Jerksticks Grand Master

Jerksticks

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I feel bad for Flynn. Seems like he lives by a good code and is one hell of a patriot. He got screwed. His own doing it seems, but the smear after just seems distasteful. Dude served his country for a long time and held his ground to the previous administration til he got pushed out. Politics aside, he's got a big set of American-loving balls.

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Balta1701 Grand Master

Balta1701

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QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 01:23 AM)
I feel bad for Flynn. Seems like he lives by a good code and is one hell of a patriot. He got screwed. His own doing it seems, but the smear after just seems distasteful. Dude served his country for a long time and held his ground to the previous administration til he got pushed out. Politics aside, he's got a big set of American-loving balls.

:lolhitting

 

He was totally willing to betray our country for money, to alter our foreign policy based on who was paying him. If you're a Trump fan, he was lying to your President about his motivations in exchange for $15 million. He's a f***ing traitor.

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Quin Grand Master

Quin

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QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 02:23 AM)
I feel bad for Flynn. Seems like he lives by a good code and is one hell of a patriot. He got screwed. His own doing it seems, but the smear after just seems distasteful. Dude served his country for a long time and held his ground to the previous administration til he got pushed out. Politics aside, he's got a big set of American-loving balls.

 

I love people that work for foreign governments to plan kidnappings of people from American soil.

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Jerksticks Grand Master

Jerksticks

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I'm not a Trump fan. I just don't think Flynn is a traitor at this point. Evidence could change that, but at this point I'm in no position to make that judgement. Same with collusion. Unless I missed something.

 

It's not like Turkey secretly called Flynn and said "Hey is this Flynn? Don't worry the call is scrambled, untraceable. Kipnap the cleric for $15M but don't tell anybody."

 

Fricken Woolsey was there talking about it. Just speculating (not judging) this situation is why he wanted immunity. Perhaps the US was considering this move but couldn't put their hands on it obviously. Perhaps using Flynn's company was a government op. Speculating here of course.

 

Thinking Turkey called Flynn and offerend him 15M for a kidnapping op is ridiculous. There's gotta be more to it than that right?

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bmags Grand Master

bmags

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QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 03:33 AM)
I'm not a Trump fan. I just don't think Flynn is a traitor at this point. Evidence could change that, but at this point I'm in no position to make that judgement. Same with collusion. Unless I missed something.

 

It's not like Turkey secretly called Flynn and said "Hey is this Flynn? Don't worry the call is scrambled, untraceable. Kipnap the cleric for $15M but don't tell anybody."

 

Fricken Woolsey was there talking about it. Just speculating (not judging) this situation is why he wanted immunity. Perhaps the US was considering this move but couldn't put their hands on it obviously. Perhaps using Flynn's company was a government op. Speculating here of course.

 

Thinking Turkey called Flynn and offerend him 15M for a kidnapping op is ridiculous. There's gotta be more to it than that right?

 

I seem to recall you finding it very, very bad that a public official would take money in return for some policy change or favor. Flynn was not always pro-turkey, he was actually pro-coup when it first happened. Wonder what changed his mind?

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Kyyle23 Grand Master

Kyyle23

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QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 03:33 AM)
I'm not a Trump fan. I just don't think Flynn is a traitor at this point. Evidence could change that, but at this point I'm in no position to make that judgement. Same with collusion. Unless I missed something.

 

It's not like Turkey secretly called Flynn and said "Hey is this Flynn? Don't worry the call is scrambled, untraceable. Kipnap the cleric for $15M but don't tell anybody."

 

Fricken Woolsey was there talking about it. Just speculating (not judging) this situation is why he wanted immunity. Perhaps the US was considering this move but couldn't put their hands on it obviously. Perhaps using Flynn's company was a government op. Speculating here of course.

 

Thinking Turkey called Flynn and offerend him 15M for a kidnapping op is ridiculous. There's gotta be more to it than that right?

 

You keep saying “I’m not a Trump fan, but I think all of this is made up” in some fashion or another.

 

Why does everyone in this administration keep getting caught in outright lies? If this is all a ruse, then why the cover up?

 

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Dick Allen Grand Master

Dick Allen

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 08:51 AM)
You keep saying “I’m not a Trump fan, but I think all of this is made up” in some fashion or another.

 

Why does everyone in this administration keep getting caught in outright lies? If this is all a ruse, then why the cover up?

I agree. What republicans should do is think if Hillary won the election and her administration was caught in the exact same thing, would they doubt a cover up? Would they dismiss all of the lies? Would they not be calling her a criminal every chance they had?

 

If there is nothing, why all of the lies? Why all of the omissions on security clearance forms? They certainly don't act like innocent people. There clearly is something there.

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Soxbadger Grand Master

Soxbadger

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 09:05 AM)
I agree. What republicans should do is think if Hillary won the election and her administration was caught in the exact same thing, would they doubt a cover up? Would they dismiss all of the lies? Would they not be calling her a criminal every chance they had?

 

If there is nothing, why all of the lies? Why all of the omissions on security clearance forms? They certainly don't act like innocent people. There clearly is something there.

 

I cant believe that they are letting Trump trash the FBI and the rest of our intelligence community without any blow back. Somehow kneeling during the national anthem is heretical, but trashing people who dedicate their life to stopping crime is totally cool.

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Soxbadger Grand Master

Soxbadger

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 08:41 PM)
He called the CIA Nazis shortly before he took office

 

They are super patriots. Its totally fine that Trump wanted to let Russia get away with breaking a treaty with the US.

 

Kind of ironic, he is so "tough" about treaties, but when Russia actually broke one by invading Crimea, he doesnt want to hold them accountable at all.

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Whitesoxin2019 Enthusiast

Whitesoxin2019

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As an independent. I don’t see trump as perfect. But my problem is that most people who complain about Trump were pro Hillary. Naturally. However she was a bad candidate whether you wear red glasses , blue glasses or independent glasses. Most Bernie bros I have spoken with were more anti Hillary than trump. I could only take a Hillary voters opinion on trump with a tiny grain of salt. I do enjoy conversations with Bernie fans though. I could also respect those who are in the “they both suck” group.

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pettie4sox Grand Master

pettie4sox

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QUOTE (Whitesoxin2019 @ Dec 3, 2017 -> 09:54 PM)
As an independent. I don’t see trump as perfect. But my problem is that most people who complain about Trump were pro Hillary. Naturally. However she was a bad candidate whether you wear red glasses , blue glasses or independent glasses. Most Bernie bros I have spoken with were more anti Hillary than trump. I could only take a Hillary voters opinion on trump with a tiny grain of salt. I do enjoy conversations with Bernie fans though. I could also respect those who are in the “they both suck” group.

 

You will now face the wrath of Reddy.

 

Good luck!

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