President Donald Trump: The Thread

[RockRaines]

Are there a non-zero number of families who pay property taxes to your district but send their children to private schools? If people like DeVos get their way, all of those public education funds would instead be funneled into the private schools those kids are attending. That would hurt your kid's public school education.

 

She'll also likely have a very negative impact on higher ed as there are strong signs they'll be rolling back the restrictions on the firehouse of federal student aid dollars aimed at awful for-profit colleges.

 

"It won't personally affect me" isn't a good reason not to care about something, anyway.

Well, you saved me some work there. Funneling dollars away from the good public schools isnt going to keep them the same. Also running "for profit" schools with zero oversight is one of the dumbest f***ing ideas of all time. She's a disaster, just ask anyone from Michigan.

 

I'm also a gigantic supporter of at risk programs as well as special needs programs and there is literally no place for those in her world.

Edited February 7, 2017 by RockRaines

[Quin]

"Our kids." No, this may impact poor kids who already go to s***ty public schools. Now they'll just go to s***ty for-profit charter schools. "Our kids" will stay in good school systems.

 

edit: I'm not saying i'm thrilled about the choice. I just don't see it as some colossal failure either. She's going to fail like every other education secretary when trying to fix poor school systems/districts.

 

Because as a kid from a broke public school where my classmates and I were told we'd fail (by others, not our teachers that busted their asses for us) because we weren't as good as private school kids, I'm insulted that this public school killer gets to take what little money we have and give it to the Church.

[RockRaines]

Because as a kid from a broke public school where my classmates and I were told we'd fail (by others, not our teachers that busted their asses for us) because we weren't as good as private school kids, I'm insulted that this public school killer gets to take what little money we have and give it to the Church.

And thats another topic all together. The religion-based schooling she wants to push is a joke.

[StrangeSox]

FAKE NEWS CNN!!!!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/politics/kfi...a-on-fake-news/

(CNN)Sebastian Gorka, deputy assistant to President Donald Trump, said Monday that the administration will continue using the term "fake news" until the media understands that their "monumental desire" to attack the President is wrong.

 

"There is a monumental desire on behalf of the majority of the media, not just the pollsters, the majority of the media to attack a duly elected President in the second week of his term," Gorka, a former Breitbart editor who also holds a PhD in political science, told syndicated conservative radio host Michael Medved.

 

They're also inventing fake news about CNN!

 

CNN rejects White House claim: We never retracted statement on Conway

 

[Chisoxfn]

I think the scariest part of what is going on in this country right now is the complete disregard for actual facts. You have a guy who did nothing but make s*** up his entire campaign win the presidency and now you have a lot of his dumbass supporters believing everything he says even if it is directly contradicted by evidence. We are now a country that ignores facts and evidence and believes everything that the news says is "FAKE NEWS" (I know your post was in jest) when the actual fake news is coming from the president and his administration. Terrifying world.

s***...do you really believe the White Sox didn't win the last 11 world series (since 05)? We won the off-season, dominated the regular season, and won in October...it was amazing. In fact, we were so good, Manfred told JR that he had to sell Sale and Q because other towns teams entirely gave up on baseball. It got so bad that they had to fake the Royals and Cubs winning the series (as if).

[StrangeSox]

This, from an ACLU lawyer, is very troubling.

 

What was I doing in Dominica? I explained that I am a lawyer working for the American Civil Liberties Union and traveled there for a case. Why, asked the CBP agent holding my Pakistani passport, would someone working for an organization with "American" in its name have "this" passport? And why would someone working for an organization with "American" in its name be representing people who are not citizens? (Perhaps the agent had not heard about ACLU lawsuits challenging the Muslim ban on behalf of noncitizens.)

 

 

Over all those years, government officials made their views known about this work -- often in opposition, sometimes in support. But no government agent ever asked the chilling question I was asked this time: Do you understand why someone might have a different perspective about you?

 

Nor has any government official ever asked, as the CBP agent did: Why have you been a legal permanent resident for years without becoming a citizen? After all, there is no requirement to seek naturalization or not.

 

 

Related editorial from the Baltimore Sun: Ordinary Americans carried out inhumane acts for Trump

 

A week ago, men and women went to work at airports around the United States as they always do. They showered, got dressed, ate breakfast, perhaps dropped off their kids at school. Then they reported to their jobs as federal government employees, where, according to news reports, one of them handcuffed a 5-year-old child, separated him from his mother and detained him alone for several hours at Dulles airport.

 

At least one other federal employee at Dulles reportedly detained a woman who was traveling with her two children, both U.S. citizens, for 20 hours without food. A relative says the mother was handcuffed (even when she went to the bathroom) and threatened with deportation to Somalia.

 

At Kennedy Airport, still other federal employees detained and handcuffed a 65-year-old woman traveling from Qatar to visit her son, who is a U.S. citizen and serviceman stationed at Fort Bragg, N.C. The woman was held for more than 33 hours, according to the New York Times, and denied use of a wheelchair.

 

The men and women who work for the federal government completed these and other tasks and then returned to their families, where perhaps they had dinner and read stories to their children before bedtime.

 

When we worry and wonder about authoritarian regimes that inflict cruelty on civilians, we often imagine tyrannical despots unilaterally advancing their sinister agendas. But no would-be autocrat can act alone. As a practical matter, he needs subordinates willing to carry out orders. Of course, neither Donald Trump nor Steve Bannon personally detained any of the more than 100 people held at airports over the weekend pursuant to the administration's executive order on immigration, visitation and travel to the United States. They relied on assistance.

 

The men and women who reportedly handcuffed small children and the elderly, separated a child from his mother and held others without food for 20 hours, are undoubtedly "ordinary" people. What I mean by that, is that these are, in normal circumstances, people who likely treat their neighbors and co-workers with kindness and do not intentionally seek to harm others. That is chilling, as it is a reminder that authoritarians have no trouble finding the people they need to carry out their acts of cruelty. They do not need special monsters; they can issue orders to otherwise unexceptional people who will carry them out dutifully.

 

This should not be a surprise. The famous Milgram experiment and subsequent studies suggest that many people will obey instructions from an authority figure, even if it means harming another person. It is also perfectly understandable (which does not mean it is justifiable). How many of us would refuse to follow an instruction from a superior at work? It is natural to want to keep one's job, even if at the price of inflicting cruelty on another human being, even perhaps a child.

 

The question we need to ask ourselves is: What will we do? This is not a hypothetical question. Most of us will not face the stark choice employees at airports faced over the weekend. But we are all democratic citizens. Ultimately, our government can only act if we allow it to act. Under our Constitution, the people rule. Our elected officials, including the president, are accountable to us. We possess the power to reject actions we see as out of bounds. We are used to doing this in elections, but democratic tools go further. Even once an election is over, we can exercise our First Amendment rights to contact elected officials, speak, write and protest.

 

It is far easier to do nothing, to trust that, somehow, America's dangerous course will be set right. But this is a dangerous gamble, and in fact an abdication of our responsibility as Americans and indeed as human beings. If we do nothing, that is a choice. It means we accept a government that has demonstrated it is capable of inflicting cruelty on the innocent and defenseless.

 

What will we do?

[LittleHurt05]

Money talks, and always will. From alderman on up to the top of the food chain. You can literally buy anything in this country.

 

This isn't the first or last high level position to be bought. But most career politicians have enough respect for the office to require at least a slightly deserving resume from.their bidders. Not the Donald.

[StrangeSox]

This isn't the first or last high level position to be bought. But most career politicians have enough respect for the office to require at least a slightly deserving resume from.their bidders. Not the Donald.

 

And all but two Republican Senators.

[RockRaines]

This isn't the first or last high level position to be bought. But most career politicians have enough respect for the office to require at least a slightly deserving resume from.their bidders. Not the Donald.

To be fair there are a lot of lobbyists that buy pretty much everyone, like the NRA. Money is always going to talk.

 

 

I saw it first hand locally when Alderman Burnett took money and no show jobs for his friends in order to push through several construction projects that were universally rejected by his residents. And thats only a local guy.

[LittleHurt05]

And all but two Republican Senators.

 

Disappointed in how McCain seems to.be all talk.

[BigSqwert]

Even if you think the damage she can do is minimal; it's appalling that someone could so blatantly buy a cabinet position.

 

You've got it all wrong. He's just draining the swamp!

[Jenksismyhero]

And thats another topic all together. The religion-based schooling she wants to push is a joke.

 

Again, i'm not arguing she was a stellar choice. I just don't see the doomsday scenario.

[RockRaines]

Again, i'm not arguing she was a stellar choice. I just don't see the doomsday scenario.

Look up what shes done to detroit schools. Look at her philosophy for vouchers and for profit schools. There is very little positive in her core values. Even if it doesnt directly effect us, its going to crater a lot of other areas.

 

And thats without her and Falwell changing text books to creationism propaganda.

[StrangeSox]

Again, i'm not arguing she was a stellar choice. I just don't see the doomsday scenario.

 

People are saying she's going to be really awful for a wide variety of reasons, both based on her stated policy goals and her apparent total ignorance of the actual job she's been chosen to do. It's hard to imagine a less qualified candidate.

 

What do you imagine something you'd call a "doomsday scenario" for SoE would look like if you don't see why DeVos is so bad? You're right when you say that she can't single-handily destroy public education because it's mainly controlled and funded at state and local levels, but the DoEd can still have a significant impact at both the primary and secondary ed levels.

Edited February 7, 2017 by StrangeSox

[RockRaines]

This is actually worse than hiring a high school baseball coach to manage the White Sox. Its like a guy who has never seen a baseball game becoming the GM.

[caulfield12]

Again, i'm not arguing she was a stellar choice. I just don't see the doomsday scenario.

 

I'll ask Al Franken's question.

 

Other than shooting someone (white AND top 1%) on 5th Avenue in broad daylight, what would she have to do in order NOT to pass through to the Cabinet?

 

It used to be having undocumented domestic workers or unpaid back taxes, undeclared money hidden (Mnunchin) would automatically kill your nomination. Nothing does anymore. The only way is the heat gets too much and those candidates quit on their own before the confirmation process.

Edited February 7, 2017 by caulfield12

[Jenksismyhero]

People are saying she's going to be really awful for a wide variety of reasons, both based on her stated policy goals and her apparent total ignorance of the actual job she's been chosen to do. It's hard to imagine a less qualified candidate.

 

What do you imagine something you'd call a "doomsday scenario" for SoE would look like if you don't see why DeVos is so bad?

 

She MAY be. We have no idea. She has policy objectives, most of which, like all other political candidates/appointees, never come to fruition.

 

I'm not sure what a doomsday scenario would be. Probably one that significantly restructures the system for everyone in the middle, something I cannot imagine will ever happen given the various interests at play (school administrations, teacher unions, local govt, parents, etc). Being more pro for-profit/pro-charter schools doesn't fit into that. Allowing the minor group of people sending kids to private school may have an effect, but it's not going to kill schools.

 

 

[illinilaw08]

Again, i'm not arguing she was a stellar choice. I just don't see the doomsday scenario.

 

Yeah, Jenks, it seems like your argument boils down to Secretary of Education being a completely unimportant position that has no possibility of creating tangible harm or tangible good. I think a lot of people in this thread respectfully disagree with that position, and have already provided a number of examples of potential tangible harm.

 

The point here is that it doesn't need to be a doomsday scenario with schools in flames for DeVos' educational philosophy to have a really negative impact on a lot of kids and a lot of families.

[Kyyle23]

She MAY be. We have no idea. She has policy objectives, most of which, like all other political candidates/appointees, never come to fruition.

 

I'm not sure what a doomsday scenario would be. Probably one that significantly restructures the system for everyone in the middle, something I cannot imagine will ever happen given the various interests at play (school administrations, teacher unions, local govt, parents, etc). Being more pro for-profit/pro-charter schools doesn't fit into that. Allowing the minor group of people sending kids to private school may have an effect, but it's not going to kill schools.

 

Pardon me if I am wrong, but didn't the implementation of her policies in Michigan do just that and kill schools? I thought I read it was pretty disastrous in Louisiana as well when they tried to adapt her plan

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, Jenks, it seems like your argument boils down to Secretary of Education being a completely unimportant position that has no possibility of creating tangible harm or tangible good. I think a lot of people in this thread respectfully disagree with that position, and have already provided a number of examples of potential tangible harm.

 

The point here is that it doesn't need to be a doomsday scenario with schools in flames for DeVos' educational philosophy to have a really negative impact on a lot of kids and a lot of families.

 

That is a good way of putting it. DeVos won't and doesn't have the power to completely change and destroy our public education system because a majority of it happens at the state and local level, not the federal level. But that doesn't mean that the DoEd doesn't play an important role and that the policies they implement have ways of trickling down to state level policy and of still having serious impacts to school budgets.

 

Even with the relatively limited power she had through political financing in Michigan, her and her ideas caused a lot of demonstrable harm while enriching private actors. Now she has 4,400 employees and something like a $50B budget to implement these same policies. And as I said before, things are still worth opposing even if they don't directly impact you or your children. Really, it's those who are not in 'the middle' who are the most vulnerable and who need the most protection. Saying "sure, poor kids' schools will be run into the ground even more than they already are, but my kids' schools will be okay" is pretty callous.

 

Pardon me if I am wrong, but didn't the implementation of her policies in Michigan do just that and kill schools? I thought I read it was pretty disastrous in Louisiana as well when they tried to adapt her plan

 

Yes, and then Republican lawmakers in LA were shocked and horrified to learn that the vouchers they allowed to funnel money to Christian schools also meant money could go to Islamic schools.

Edited February 7, 2017 by StrangeSox

[BigSqwert]

Yeah, Jenks, it seems like your argument boils down to Secretary of Education being a completely unimportant position that has no possibility of creating tangible harm or tangible good.

 

Honestly, he comes off as "This isn't going to personally affect me so who cares?"

[caulfield12]

The "passing" reading proficiency scores for white students in Detroit after her nearly thirty years of fighting for reforms in the public schools...13%

 

 

[RockRaines]

The "passing" reading proficiency scores for white students in Detroit after her nearly thirty years of fighting for reforms in the public schools...13%

Their only standard for keeping her schools open is are they making a profit. Its horrible.

[Jenksismyhero]

Honestly, he comes off as "This isn't going to personally affect me so who cares?"

 

Nah, just growing tired of the minute by minute overreaction circle jerk on this board.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Nah, just growing tired of the minute by minute overreaction circle jerk on this board.

 

 

LOL I don't expect it to stop anytime soon with this freak show in office.