elrockinMT Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) When it comes to any potential trade of Robertson, Frazier or Quintana the red flags come out when you hear "just take what you can get" or "settle for the best they offer.". We don't have to short change ourselves. Trade partners are dealing because they need to win this season. We don't and so we get what we want or we hold our cards. If we got Severino for Robertson where does that leave our own stud young catcher? Is there really room for two premium catching prospects? Edited February 23, 2017 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 08:28 PM) When it comes to any potential trade of Robertson, Frazier or Quintana the red flags come out when you hear "just take what you can get" or "settle for the best they offer.". We don't have to short change ourselves. Trade partners are dealing because they need to win this season. We don't and so we get what we want or we hold our cards. If we got Severino for Robertson where does that leave our own stud young catcher? Is there really room for two premium catching prospects? I wouldn't worry too much about having TOO MUCH catching talent after the last five years of White Sox baseball. These things usually have a way of working themselves out...and we've always speculated that if Collins' hit tool is good enough, it would be easy to imagine him getting a fair amount of at-bats at DH to rest him from all the wear and tear you take at catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 08:59 PM) I wouldn't worry too much about having TOO MUCH catching talent after the last five years of White Sox baseball. These things usually have a way of working themselves out...and we've always speculated that if Collins' hit tool is good enough, it would be easy to imagine him getting a fair amount of at-bats at DH to rest him from all the wear and tear you take at catcher. Considering the problems the Sox have had at the catcher position, I would welcome the idea of having too much talent at the position. If for some reason Severino sticks as an everyday catcher, Collins could be moved to 1B. Not like the Sox have any quality 1B prospects anyway and Abreu should be the DH if he's still with the Sox by the time Collins is ready. I'm not saying Collins won't stick at catcher but I'm not going to assume he will either. Passing on Severino because they already have Collins would be a bad idea and judging by the latest rumor, Hahn would agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 09:25 PM) Considering the problems the Sox have had at the catcher position, I would welcome the idea of having too much talent at the position. If for some reason Severino sticks as an everyday catcher, Collins could be moved to 1B. Not like the Sox have any quality 1B prospects anyway and Abreu should be the DH if he's still with the Sox by the time Collins is ready. I'm not saying Collins won't stick at catcher but I'm not going to assume he will either. Passing on Severino because they already have Collins would be a bad idea and judging by the latest rumor, Hahn would agree. If a trade happened before the season started, you'd also have 2 years basically to evaluate Severino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 06:26 AM) If a trade happened before the season started, you'd also have 2 years basically to evaluate Severino. Yep, he's just 23 years old. Severino is different in that his defensive skills are ahead of his bat which to me is promising. Usually the defense lags behind the bat when it comes to catchers. I know Severino has no power but if he can hit for a decent average he will be a gem to have behind the plate and in the lineup. Come on Rizzo, give it up just once more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:01 AM) Yep, he's just 23 years old. Severino is different in that his defensive skills are ahead of his bat which to me is promising. Usually the defense lags behind the bat when it comes to catchers. I know Severino has no power but if he can hit for a decent average he will be a gem to have behind the plate and in the lineup. Come on Rizzo, give it up just once more. Yeah and you don't even need to set the world on fire with the bat to be considered an average hitting catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:04 AM) Yeah and you don't even need to set the world on fire with the bat to be considered an average hitting catcher. Right. Hit for a decent average and hopefully show good bat control to hit behind base runners and I'd be more than happy. Anything more than that would be a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Another benefit could be that Severino might already be familiar with Giolito and Lopez. Not sure if he sure if their paths crossed in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:01 AM) Yep, he's just 23 years old. Severino is different in that his defensive skills are ahead of his bat which to me is promising. Usually the defense lags behind the bat when it comes to catchers. I know Severino has no power but if he can hit for a decent average he will be a gem to have behind the plate and in the lineup. Come on Rizzo, give it up just once more. Officer Karkovice 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:46 AM) Officer Karkovice 2.0 Nice! I like the comp. With catchers I've always looked at defense/game calling/framing first and hope for at least an average bat. Two methods to my madness 1) 81 games are pitched in a launching pad 2) it's the AL so if the bat lags at the C position, there's is the luxury of having the DH to help compensate for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Some other things to be considered when talking about the catcher position. 1) Rodon's slider 2) Giolito's curve ball 3) Lopez' late moving FB and his curve ball. 4) Fulmer's curve ball 5) Q's curve ball 6) Robertson's curve ball 7) Jones, period. Movement on everything. Yep, I'm thinking defense first at the catcher position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Heyman has article out today where a Nats source said WSox never acted like they wanted to really get rid of Robertson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:40 PM) Heyman has article out today where a Nats source said WSox never acted like they wanted to really get rid of Robertson Pure posturing. Of course Sox want to deal Drob, it's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 12:03 PM) Some other things to be considered when talking about the catcher position. 1) Rodon's slider 2) Giolito's curve ball 3) Lopez' late moving FB and his curve ball. 4) Fulmer's curve ball 5) Q's curve ball 6) Robertson's curve ball 7) Jones, period. Movement on everything. Yep, I'm thinking defense first at the catcher position. All great points...give me a glove first and the bat can come around later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:40 PM) Heyman has article out today where a Nats source said WSox never acted like they wanted to really get rid of Robertson Maybe Rizzo wasn't offering enough to peak Hahn's interest? Maybe Hahn thanks he will get more for Robertson in June/July. Robertson usually gets off to a strong start so Hahn could be banking on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:42 PM) All great points...give me a glove first and the bat can come around later. Exactly. There's some seriously filthy stuff in the Sox organization. It's possible we see Jordan Stephens curve ball in the near future as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:44 PM) Maybe Rizzo wasn't offering enough to peak Hahn's interest? Maybe Hahn thanks he will get more for Robertson in June/July. Robertson usually gets off to a strong start so Hahn could be banking on that. My guess is Sox wouldn't send any or at least enough cash along with Drob to acquire the young prospect(s) they want. We'll see how that progresses as the 1st half unwraps and the Nats see how their internal options are doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:40 PM) Heyman has article out today where a Nats source said WSox never acted like they wanted to really get rid of Robertson I am sure their price was based on 2015 Robertson and not 2016. The Nationals were probably bidding as if he was 2016 Robertson. The fact the White Sox didn't come down in price is probably where the idea that they didn't want to trade him comes from. They probably didn't want to get rid of him at a reduced price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) My guess is Sox wouldn't send any or at least enough cash along with Drob to acquire the young prospect(s) they want. We'll see how that progresses as the 1st half unwraps and the Nats see how their internal options are doing... The money definitely a big part of it. Rizzo likes to defer money when he can and did so with Weiters. Spotrac has the Nat's payroll at 163M so maybe they feel they would be pushing their own limitations plus inhibit the ability to take on a higher salary player to fill a hole at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) I am sure their price was based on 2015 Robertson and not 2016. The Nationals were probably bidding as if he was 2016 Robertson. The fact the White Sox didn't come down in price is probably where the idea that they didn't want to trade him comes from. They probably didn't want to get rid of him at a reduced price. Exactly. It's all 'in between the lines' language... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Washington does not have a catching prospect ranked in the top ten. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213808058/20...hing-prospects/ Anyway, Hahn is more interested in obtaining outfielders so perhaps Robertson will be traded to another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) I am sure their price was based on 2015 Robertson and not 2016. The Nationals were probably bidding as if he was 2016 Robertson. The fact the White Sox didn't come down in price is probably where the idea that they didn't want to trade him comes from. They probably didn't want to get rid of him at a reduced price. When Eaton was traded it sounded as if Rizzo was trying to get Hahn to include Robertson as more of a salary relief throw-in/buy low player. Hahn, otoh, sees some value in Robertson as a closer and actually wants something of quality in return. I'd say your right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Robertson will be worth a haul at the trade deadline. Once teams know they are in the race, they'll pay a premium for that extra bullpen arm. I wouldn't rush a trade just to get something done. Severino is nice but not nearly enough to entice me. Miller and Chapman aren't that far ahead of Robertson in value IMO (2015 Robertson). They both brought back top 20 prospects. Severino isn't even a consensus top 10 prospect in the Nationals system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Holding onto Robertson until June/July just might pay off. Iirc, Robertson usually gets off to strong start. The Sox won't contend this year or next so pitching his ass of to get traded to a contender is his best chance of seeing the playoffs any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 12:10 PM) Holding onto Robertson until June/July just might pay off. Iirc, Robertson usually gets off to strong start. The Sox won't contend this year or next so pitching his ass of to get traded to a contender is his best chance of seeing the playoffs any time soon. I agree. In a perfect world, Jones takes over for him in the 2nd half, dominates, and is subsequently traded for a haul in the offseason. Burdi can take over the reigns in 2018 if he has a nice season this year, and if not, sign a stopgap until he's ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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