Robertson to WASH was close, now at stalemate

[Bob Sacamano]

For a team with world series aspirations the next two seasons, not having a proven backend of the bullpen can be a major issue.

 

Say they roll with Treinen and Kelley as 8th and 9th inning options. That leaves them concerningly thin in the event one of them goes down with an injury.

 

Bullpen issues could derail what is otherwise a championship caliber roster for the Nationals. I think they tried to get cute and have been burned by the market, now they might be forced into overpaying

 

Robertson fits into their window perfectly.

[steveno89]

Agreed. They way overplayed their hand. They had a multitude of options and let them all go by. Now they have to get Robertson or they'll be burdened with a shaky bullpen for the beginning part of the season.

 

I really think Washington tried to land free agent relievers but failed to sign any of them. Now they are sulking back to the White Sox complaining they can't pay money or prospects but want Robertson.

 

Sox know they have the advantage because the Nats really do need him. Eventually I think they will bite the bullet and offer up a respectable package that includes either Fedde or Soto (likely Soto) plus another piece, which would be a quality move for the Sox

 

We will eat 6-8 million of the contract to help offset some cost, and done deal

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I really think Washington tried to land free agent relievers but failed to sign any of them. Now they are sulking back to the White Sox complaining they can't pay money or prospects but want Robertson.

 

Sox know they have the advantage because the Nats really do need him. Eventually I think they will bite the bullet and offer up a respectable package that includes either Fedde or Soto (likely Soto) plus another piece, which would be a quality move for the Sox

 

We will eat 6-8 million of the contract to help offset some cost, and done deal

I could live with that for sure. Soto looks intriguing and the Sox should definitely throw in money if it improves the package coming back. There's no reason not to.

[steveno89]

I could live with that for sure. Soto looks intriguing and the Sox should definitely throw in money if it improves the package coming back. There's no reason not to.

 

Sox have plenty of payroll flexibility, the issue for them comes down to getting at least one or two solid prospects in return for him.

 

Sox have never been an organization that loves to send a bunch of cash over in trades to make them happen, but in this case I think 6-8 million would make Robertson's deal a 2 year, 17-19 million deal. Which is not a horrible value for him at all

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Sox have plenty of payroll flexibility, the issue for them comes down to getting at least one or two solid prospects in return for him.

 

Sox have never been an organization that loves to send a bunch of cash over in trades to make them happen, but in this case I think 6-8 million would make Robertson's deal a 2 year, 17-19 million deal. Which is not a horrible value for him at all

I'd eat the whole damn thing if Victor Robles was on the table. He probably isn't but that would be an amazing return even if the Sox paid Robertson's entire contract.

[Bob Sacamano]

Sox have plenty of payroll flexibility, the issue for them comes down to getting at least one or two solid prospects in return for him.

 

Sox have never been an organization that loves to send a bunch of cash over in trades to make them happen, but in this case I think 6-8 million would make Robertson's deal a 2 year, 17-19 million deal. Which is not a horrible value for him at all

 

While that may be true, they did release Danks when he was owed most of his $15 mill last year so you never know.

[whitesoxfan99]

I'd eat the whole damn thing if Victor Robles was on the table. He probably isn't but that would be an amazing return even if the Sox paid Robertson's entire contract.

 

He's not on the table. People really need to stop bringing up his name. You aren't getting a top 10 prospect in baseball for David Robertson.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Juan Soto is another guy I like. He's super young but those are the kind of guys that could be ready when the Sox should be able to contend again.

[beautox]

I really think Washington tried to land free agent relievers but failed to sign any of them. Now they are sulking back to the White Sox complaining they can't pay money or prospects but want Robertson.

 

Sox know they have the advantage because the Nats really do need him. Eventually I think they will bite the bullet and offer up a respectable package that includes either Fedde or Soto (likely Soto) plus another piece, which would be a quality move for the Sox

 

We will eat 6-8 million of the contract to help offset some cost, and done deal

I agree that washington failed to deliver on a closer but I don't think they're getting off the hook that easy.

 

Mark Melancon is nearly the same age as Robertson and if you go buy WARP he put up 1.8 last year between the pirates and nats and 1.3 the year before while actually having confident catching and managing.

 

David Robertson during that same stretch 1.7 and 1.5.

 

Point I'm trying to make is based off this off season Robertson's contract is actually slightly under market as Melancon is going to make 15.5 for the next four years where as Robertson is going to make 12 and 13 respectively.

 

If the sox want a great return then yes they'll likely kick in money and they should as his contract is dead money and its one of the ways to leverage an advantage now that caps are in place for nearly avenue of talent acquisition outside of free agency and international free agents that are over a certain age.

 

I don't think the sox should be targetting the Stevensons' and Severino's of the world, they're going to need waves of talent to make this successful for a rebuild and would be better served aiming higher than a back up catcher with questionable framing and a middling starter / speedy 4th outfielder that can defend.

 

I would like to see Hahn deliver something like this. Robertson and Lawrie to the nats for Kieboom, Soto, Luzardo and Watson. Nats get to keep Robles as the heir apparent to harper and pitching depth in Feede and Cole and their back up catcher in Severino. Sox get good high ceiling low floor assets across the board in Kieboom who could be moved off SS to 3B or C, Soto who is likely ticketed for LF and two left handed arms in Luzardo that had TJ and is coming back and Watson who has a lot of projection left.

[Bob Sacamano]

I would like to see Hahn deliver something like this. Robertson and Lawrie to the nats for Kieboom, Soto, Luzardo and Watson. Nats get to keep Robles as the heir apparent to harper and pitching depth in Feede and Cole and their back up catcher in Severino. Sox get good high ceiling low floor assets across the board in Kieboom who could be moved off SS to 3B or C, Soto who is likely ticketed for LF and two left handed arms in Luzardo that had TJ and is coming back and Watson who has a lot of projection left.

 

Has he ever even caught before?

[beautox]

Has he ever even caught before?

Scouts feel he could and its in his bloodlines.

[beautox]

There is another issue that could come back to bite the sox in the ass in a similar fashion to the Astro's with JD Martinez. That is having too much talent that needs to be protected at the major league level and still needs runway for evaluation. The Astro's front office even said losing Martinez was because they were a victim of their own success, id prefer the sox have the foresight with waves of talent hitting, that way they can evaluate everyone properly instead of having a Martinez situation happen to them, its also another reason I highly doubt they want someone like Glasnow and would prefer Keller all things being equal.

[steveno89]

I agree that washington failed to deliver on a closer but I don't think they're getting off the hook that easy.

 

Mark Melancon is nearly the same age as Robertson and if you go buy WARP he put up 1.8 last year between the pirates and nats and 1.3 the year before while actually having confident catching and managing.

 

David Robertson during that same stretch 1.7 and 1.5.

 

Point I'm trying to make is based off this off season Robertson's contract is actually slightly under market as Melancon is going to make 15.5 for the next four years where as Robertson is going to make 12 and 13 respectively.

 

If the sox want a great return then yes they'll likely kick in money and they should as his contract is dead money and its one of the ways to leverage an advantage now that caps are in place for nearly avenue of talent acquisition outside of free agency and international free agents that are over a certain age.

 

I don't think the sox should be targetting the Stevensons' and Severino's of the world, they're going to need waves of talent to make this successful for a rebuild and would be better served aiming higher than a back up catcher with questionable framing and a middling starter / speedy 4th outfielder that can defend.

 

I would like to see Hahn deliver something like this. Robertson and Lawrie to the nats for Kieboom, Soto, Luzardo and Watson. Nats get to keep Robles as the heir apparent to harper and pitching depth in Feede and Cole and their back up catcher in Severino. Sox get good high ceiling low floor assets across the board in Kieboom who could be moved off SS to 3B or C, Soto who is likely ticketed for LF and two left handed arms in Luzardo that had TJ and is coming back and Watson who has a lot of projection left.

 

The Nationals are not sending us 4 top 15 organizational prospects for Robertson and Lawrie. They really hurt their system depth in the Eaton trade, and Rizzo is in the tough spot of not really being able to sell off much more depth without harming their future greatly

[beautox]

The Nationals are not sending us 4 top 15 organizational prospects for Robertson and Lawrie. They really hurt their system depth in the Eaton trade, and Rizzo is in the tough spot of not really being able to sell off much more depth without harming their future greatly

their future is the next two years before Harper hits free agency while hoping Zimmerman stops his decline at first.

 

that package is 1 50 and 3 45 FV prospects and their isn't a floor between any of them, its the definition of boom or bust. If they're not keen on moving Feede and Severino they're going to have to compensate with more lottery tickets and I think its easier to sell to both the ownership and fan base that they're moving assets that won't factor into the next two years of competition in the east.

[iamshack]

He's not on the table. People really need to stop bringing up his name. You aren't getting a top 10 prospect in baseball for David Robertson.

I wasn't aware that you were privy to the negotiations. What is the latest Rick and Mike have been kicking around?

[Soha]

I wasn't aware that you were privy to the negotiations. What is the latest Rick and Mike have been kicking around?

 

Either way, he's right. You're not getting one of the best prospects in baseball for a mediocre/average closer.

[Dick Allen]

I wasn't aware that you were privy to the negotiations. What is the latest Rick and Mike have been kicking around?

None of us are, but logic says he's correct.

 

If you want to believe Robles can be had for Robertson, go ahead, but it would be an alternative fact.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Dick Allen

[flavum]

Robertson would be a good salary dump / way to get worse.

 

Get a low level, lottery ticket.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Robertson would be a good salary dump / way to get worse.

 

Get a low level, lottery ticket.

 

Robertson is not a salary dump at all IMO. He has some value now, with the potential for even more if he has a good 1st half next year.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Robertson would be a good salary dump / way to get worse.

 

Get a low level, lottery ticket.

 

They'll do better than that.

[pablo]

their future is the next two years before Harper hits free agency while hoping Zimmerman stops his decline at first.

 

that package is 1 50 and 3 45 FV prospects and their isn't a floor between any of them, its the definition of boom or bust. If they're not keen on moving Feede and Severino they're going to have to compensate with more lottery tickets and I think its easier to sell to both the ownership and fan base that they're moving assets that won't factor into the next two years of competition in the east.

 

I think you make very good points and I was surprised to see the Melancon/Robertson comparison favor Robertson slightly. But when you see the package Melancon brought which is essentially two high upside bullpen pieces, I have a hard time thinking that Robertson can bring back Soto or Kieboom, even with eating some money. They are a bit different situations in that Melancon was a pending FA, but he was also acquired in a pennant race when trades for relievers seem to go up. Yes the Sox can eat some Robertson money, but perception is that Robertson had a bad year last year which basically means the Sox "should" eat money to trade him. I view them as somewhat equal trade values which means we probably should not get our hopes up of getting Soto back (unfortunately). If we went with the Melancon deal as what we can expect, I would be up for a Glover + Luzardo package.

 

EDIT: I think if the Nats were desperate enough, they would trade Soto considering he doesn't fit into their current contention plans. But Rizzo might be afraid to trade him considering the backlash he got on the Eaton deal.

Edited February 7, 2017 by pablo

[flavum]

They'll do better than that.

 

I hope so, but Robertson hasn't been a lights out type closer in a Sox uniform. He's good, not great, with a pretty hefty contract left. So it's either eating salary to get a better player, or just speculation on a couple guys that haven't played above low A.

[iamshack]

None of us are, but logic says he's correct.

 

If you want to believe Robles can be had for Robertson, go ahead, but it would be an alternative fact.

Of course logic says it's correct; so let the logical people reach that conclusion on their own.

 

No need to continually tell people what to think/discuss when it comes to pure speculation.

[steveno89]

I think you make very good points and I was surprised to see the Melancon/Robertson comparison favor Robertson slightly. But when you see the package Melancon brought which is essentially two high upside bullpen pieces, I have a hard time thinking that Robertson can bring back Soto or Kieboom, even with eating some money. They are a bit different situations in that Melancon was a pending FA, but he was also acquired in a pennant race when trades for relievers seem to go up. Yes the Sox can eat some Robertson money, but perception is that Robertson had a bad year last year which basically means the Sox "should" eat money to trade him. I view them as somewhat equal trade values which means we probably should not get our hopes up of getting Soto back (unfortunately). If we went with the Melancon deal as what we can expect, I would be up for a Glover + Luzardo package.

 

EDIT: I think if the Nats were desperate enough, they would trade Soto considering he doesn't fit into their current contention plans. But Rizzo might be afraid to trade him considering the backlash he got on the Eaton deal.

 

Soto is their #3 and Kieboom is their #4 organizational prospect(s) now. I cannot see Washington being willing to deal off much additional depth, but salary is also an issue.

 

I'm not sure a deal gets done unless the Nats blink a considerable amount. I do not feel that either side is close based on what we are hearing

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

If Washington really wanted to win in the window in which they have Harper, they'd do something. It doesn't seem like that's the case though which is extremely puzzling.