2017-18 NCAA Football Thread

[Brian]

[RockRaines]

The mention of John Cooper should give you (and Illinois fans) the warm and fuzzies

[bmags]

Only nubs (and ND) fans can make me root for an OSU fan in an argument.

[RockRaines]

Only nubs (and ND) fans can make me root for an OSU fan in an argument.

 

Its not really an argument. Its like talking to an old guy at a bar who isnt aware that the internet and statistics are readily available.

Edited December 15, 2017 by RockRaines

[Whitesoxin2019]

Bruce didn’t start until 1979.

They won 7 conference titles between the two of them.

 

Osu has a .733 winning percentage against conference opponents.

 

Totally second tier.

Are you saying that OSU from late 70s until early 2000s is the same as 2002 OSU to present?

 

If not, Would that NOT make OSU in a different tier during that quarter of a century?

 

OSU is a very nice program. But don't act like they are leaps ahead of programs like Michigan, Nebraska and Notre Dame. I am just making a point that for a fairly recent significant period of time OSU was 'good'. Like final rank 10-25 good with quite a few unranked seasons. Tressel and Meyer have no doubt put OSU back in the elite category. College football programs seem to have success in waves and OSU is not above that. I think Harbaugh and Frost will do the same for Michigan and Nebraska.

[RockRaines]

Are you saying that OSU from late 70s until early 2000s is the same as 2002 OSU to present?

 

If not, Would that NOT make OSU in a different tier during that quarter of a century?

 

OSU is a very nice program. But don't act like they are leaps ahead of programs like Michigan, Nebraska and Notre Dame.

OSU was still top tier in conference during the Bruce and Cooper era, yes. (bruce won a conference title every other year he was coach)

 

In the Big Ten Michigan and OSU are 1 and 1a in almost everyone's mind. Notre Dame isnt in the Big Ten and Nebraska isnt in the top tier and may never be.

Edited December 15, 2017 by RockRaines

[Jenksismyhero]

OSU was still top tier in conference during the Bruce and Cooper era, yes. (bruce won a conference title every other year he was coach)

 

In the Big Ten Michigan and OSU are 1 and 1a in almost everyone's mind. Notre Dame isnt in the Big Ten and Nebraska isnt in the top tier and may never be.

 

Are you saying historically? Or currently? I'd rank PSU ahead of Michigan today. Wisconsin too. IMO Michigan is up there with Notre Dame as one of the most overrated programs in college football. Good programs, no doubt, but not worth the attention they get on an annual basis.

[Brian]

Are you saying historically? Or currently? I'd rank PSU ahead of Michigan today. Wisconsin too. IMO Michigan is up there with Notre Dame as one of the most overrated programs in college football. Good programs, no doubt, but not worth the attention they get on an annual basis.

 

Notre Dame, whom I despise, was in the national title game a few years ago and last year, Michigan was a bad spot away from making the playoffs in Harbaugh's second year. Penn State underachieved mightily this year, choking the OSU game after choking the Rose Bowl last year.

 

Wolverines are still digging themselves out of the hole RichRod and Hoke left it in, for sure though. Next year will be telling. Wish we had a QB this year.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Brian

[RockRaines]

Are you saying historically? Or currently? I'd rank PSU ahead of Michigan today. Wisconsin too. IMO Michigan is up there with Notre Dame as one of the most overrated programs in college football. Good programs, no doubt, but not worth the attention they get on an annual basis.

I think its a lot of things:

 

Historical and current performance

Reputation

Recruiting base and performance

Facilities

Budget

 

 

Theres a lot of factors that go into a program being elite. But I think the simplest way to boil it down is if every single program in the conference had a head coach opening at the same time. In what order would a coach choose each school (with no prior biases).

[RockRaines]

Notre Dame, whom I despise, was in the national title game a few years ago and last year, Michigan was a bad spot away from making the playoffs in Harbaugh's second year. Penn State underachieved mightily this year, choking the OSU game after choking the Rose Bowl last year.

 

Wolverines are still digging themselves out of the hole RichRod and Hoke left it in, for sure though. Next year will be telling. Wish we had a QB this year.

We all know the spot was good Brian.

 

But even Hoke who is an awful, awful coach, recruited at an elite level at Michigan. I think thats a good message on the strength of the brand

Edited December 15, 2017 by RockRaines

[Whitesoxin2019]

OSU was still top tier in conference during the Bruce and Cooper era, yes. (bruce won a conference title every other year he was coach)

 

In the Big Ten Michigan and OSU are 1 and 1a in almost everyone's mind. Notre Dame isnt in the Big Ten and Nebraska isnt in the top tier and may never be.

 

 

OK, Did not see anything wrong with what you said until you spit that last part out. Ohio St has an impressive bowl streak of 5 straight years now. Nebraska had a 35 game bowl streak. Nebraska and Ohio st have the same amount of national titles in the past 60 years. Nebraska, no doubt, has had a rough patch for the past 15 years. But it was not too different from Ohio St 78-early 2000s. Come on now. Let me guess... You hopped the OSU bandwagon in 2002? I heard it all the last 50 years... Oklahoma is done, Alabama is done, Ohio St is done, USC is done now Nebraska?

 

The way I see it sir, Nebraska will be back to winning just like the programs I just mentioned.

 

For the LONG TERM I see Harbaugh and Frost as the 2 best recruiters and coaches in the big 10. My personal opinion is Meyer will leave within the next 2 years and OSU will jump down a tier. Maybe not as bad as 2011, but more resembling 78-2001. Not a championship team, but a good team.

 

 

As for me, as an Illini fan, I am looking up at all these teams mentioned. sigh

[Jenksismyhero]

Yeah I think it's kind of silly to not have Nebraska as a top tier blue blood. They're a top 10 program and there's no reason to believe they won't get back there with Frost. They have a good, dedicated fan base and he's a good recruiter and they play in a weak division.

[RockRaines]

For the LONG TERM I see Harbaugh and Frost as the 2 best recruiters and coaches in the big 10. My personal opinion is Meyer will leave within the next 2 years and OSU will jump down a tier. Maybe not as bad as 2011, but more resembling 78-2001. Not a championship team, but a good team.

I hopped on the OSU bandwagon in 1981

 

and LOL. Have a good one.

[RockRaines]

Yeah I think it's kind of silly to not have Nebraska as a top tier blue blood. They're a top 10 program and there's no reason to believe they won't get back there with Frost. They have a good, dedicated fan base and he's a good recruiter and they play in a weak division.

That means you believe they are a top 3 program in the Big Ten. I disagree. I think they are a solid top 25 program with a good fan base, good facilities, average reputation and below average recruiting base. I do think they COULD be in line to make a few conference title games in that division, but thats about it. I dont think they have a shot in hell at a playoff in the near term.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think its a lot of things:

 

Historical and current performance

Reputation

Recruiting base and performance

Facilities

Budget

 

 

Theres a lot of factors that go into a program being elite. But I think the simplest way to boil it down is if every single program in the conference had a head coach opening at the same time. In what order would a coach choose each school (with no prior biases).

 

I would think that PSU, Nebraska and Wisconsin are every bit as attractive as Michigan. Michigan has the exposure but also the headache of meeting expectations and playing OSU every year. Wisconsin and Nebraska can basically walk into the Big Ten Championship every year or every other year.

[RockRaines]

I would think that PSU, Nebraska and Wisconsin are every bit as attractive as Michigan. Michigan has the exposure but also the headache of meeting expectations and playing OSU every year. Wisconsin and Nebraska can basically walk into the Big Ten Championship every year or every other year.

I was trying to take those factors out of it, but totally. The Big Ten east is only getting tougher. One loss and thats it. PSU is recruiting at an amazing level right now but it will be interesting to watch Franklin have to go through losing actual good assistants.

Edited December 15, 2017 by RockRaines

[Jenksismyhero]

That means you believe they are a top 3 program in the Big Ten. I disagree. I think they are a solid top 25 program with a good fan base, good facilities, average reputation and below average recruiting base. I do think they COULD be in line to make a few conference title games in that division, but thats about it. I dont think they have a shot in hell at a playoff in the near term.

 

In terms of potential? Absolutely they're top 3. They hit a down period and they're still going bowling every year. IMO right now the big ten is something like (no particular order in each tier):

 

OSU

 

 

 

 

 

Wisconsin/PSU/Nebraska

Michigan St. (though the looming sex scandal is not good)

Michigan

Iowa

 

Northwestern/Minnesota

 

 

Illinois/Purdue/Maryland/Indiana

Rutgers

 

edit: maybe move Minnesota down to its own level behind Northwestern. Really the last 6 programs are all so terrible it doesn't really matter who is worse at any given time. None are going to do anything special in most years. Each has potential for a once-in-five-years bowl run, but that's about it.

Edited December 15, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[RockRaines]

In terms of potential? Absolutely they're top 3. They hit a down period and they're still going bowling every year. IMO right now the big ten is something like (no particular order in each tier):

 

OSU

 

 

 

 

 

Wisconsin/PSU/Nebraska

Michigan St. (though the looming sex scandal is not good)

Michigan

Iowa

 

Northwestern/Minnesota

 

 

Illinois/Purdue/Maryland/Indiana

Rutgers

I wonder how long MSU is going to be happy just playing the spoiler. Even though Harbaugh hasnt been too good against them, he's stealing a ton of their talent.

[RockRaines]

This would be a fun discussion in basketball as well.

[Jenksismyhero]

This would be a fun discussion in basketball as well.

 

Big Ten basketball is in a weird spot. Lots of movement going on with teams rising and falling.

[Whitesoxin2019]

This would be a fun discussion in basketball as well.

 

without looking at the numbers I suspect the big 10 could be broken into 2 groups, historically speaking:

Good

Indiana

Illinois

Ohio ST

Mich St

Mich

Maryland

Iowa

Purdue

Wisconsin (until the late 90s they were in the BAD category)

Minnesota

 

Bad

Penn st

Northwestern

Nebraska

Rutgers

[Harry Chappas]

OSU

Michigan

 

 

The Rest

 

 

Like the SEC it is

 

Alabama

 

 

The rest

 

Teams will ebb and flow because of the conference play but that's it.

[Heads22]

John Cooper played at Iowa State, Earle Bruce coached here....IT ALL TIES BACK

[RockRaines]

John Cooper played at Iowa State, Earle Bruce coached here....IT ALL TIES BACK

Overwhelmingly people think Campbell is next up after Meyer too....

[Heads22]

Overwhelmingly people think Campbell is next up after Meyer too....

 

I wouldn't be surprised, and frankly it would mean things are going really well. No one's jaded enough to think he'll never leave, but it will take a job like Ohio St, Michigan, Notre Dame or something rust belty