BamaDoc Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 If the Sox don't get an offer they like, what about an alternative. Consider, 1) Q has been a great teammate and never b****ed about anything publicly. 2) He has been good and durable. 3) Could he be a great mentor for the young guns coming and anchor the staff? He has a four year deal with the last two being options that are considered team friendly given his production. What if the Sox guaranteed those two years (good for him) added two additional option years at a reasonable/slight discount (good for Sox). You could give him a slight signing bonus now or have moderate buyouts on the options to further sweeten the deal for him and to provide he doesn't get jerked around with rumors a full no trade clause for a couple years and then maybe limited no trade after. I hate to say that I prefer trading him but if the offers really aren't there wouldn't this be a viable alternative? You could also do this after this season to minimize the Sox risk but if he has a bad year it hurts everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) If the Sox don't get an offer they like, what about an alternative. Consider, 1) Q has been a great teammate and never b****ed about anything publicly. 2) He has been good and durable. 3) Could he be a great mentor for the young guns coming and anchor the staff? He has a four year deal with the last two being options that are considered team friendly given his production. What if the Sox guaranteed those two years (good for him) added two additional option years at a reasonable/slight discount (good for Sox). You could give him a slight signing bonus now or have moderate buyouts on the options to further sweeten the deal for him and to provide he doesn't get jerked around with rumors a full no trade clause for a couple years and then maybe limited no trade after. I hate to say that I prefer trading him but if the offers really aren't there wouldn't this be a viable alternative? You could also do this after this season to minimize the Sox risk but if he has a bad year it hurts everyone. I think they should trade him, but in a hypothetical extension, they'd basically have to restructure his current deal giving him more money over the next 4 years to even make it tempting for him to give up additional potential free agent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) If the Sox don't get an offer they like, what about an alternative. Consider, 1) Q has been a great teammate and never b****ed about anything publicly. 2) He has been good and durable. 3) Could he be a great mentor for the young guns coming and anchor the staff? He has a four year deal with the last two being options that are considered team friendly given his production. What if the Sox guaranteed those two years (good for him) added two additional option years at a reasonable/slight discount (good for Sox). You could give him a slight signing bonus now or have moderate buyouts on the options to further sweeten the deal for him and to provide he doesn't get jerked around with rumors a full no trade clause for a couple years and then maybe limited no trade after. I hate to say that I prefer trading him but if the offers really aren't there wouldn't this be a viable alternative? You could also do this after this season to minimize the Sox risk but if he has a bad year it hurts everyone. They absolutely should trade him to help boost the rebuild, but I get what your point is. Why extend quintana right now when we absolutely do not have to? Four sessions of control is a long time for a pitcher as it is. Capitalize on his value while we can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 No chance he gives a discount when guys like Kennedy or Samardzija sign for 70+ million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) If the Sox don't get an offer they like, what about an alternative. Consider, 1) Q has been a great teammate and never b****ed about anything publicly. 2) He has been good and durable. 3) Could he be a great mentor for the young guns coming and anchor the staff? He has a four year deal with the last two being options that are considered team friendly given his production. What if the Sox guaranteed those two years (good for him) added two additional option years at a reasonable/slight discount (good for Sox). You could give him a slight signing bonus now or have moderate buyouts on the options to further sweeten the deal for him and to provide he doesn't get jerked around with rumors a full no trade clause for a couple years and then maybe limited no trade after. I hate to say that I prefer trading him but if the offers really aren't there wouldn't this be a viable alternative? You could also do this after this season to minimize the Sox risk but if he has a bad year it hurts everyone. You've. Given it a lot of thought, but I think you're overthinking it. He's gonna get traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 What kind of discount are we talking? If you offered him a boost right now to 6 years and $90 million, that adds 2 years to his deal at $25 million per year - he gets a vastly inflated contract value, far more monetary security, and the White Sox get him for those 2 years at a discount compared to what he'd be worth if he kept this up. Honestly I'm not sure I can remember a team doing a contract like that with a guy, but I'd consider it. Might have to up the dollar value to make it worth it to keep signing things like that - maybe all the way to $100 m over those 6 years so that the 2 extra years are $30 million years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 08:13 PM) What kind of discount are we talking? If you offered him a boost right now to 6 years and $90 million, that adds 2 years to his deal at $25 million per year - he gets a vastly inflated contract value, far more monetary security, and the White Sox get him for those 2 years at a discount compared to what he'd be worth if he kept this up. Honestly I'm not sure I can remember a team doing a contract like that with a guy, but I'd consider it. Might have to up the dollar value to make it worth it to keep signing things like that - maybe all the way to $100 m over those 6 years so that the 2 extra years are $30 million years. Why bother when we are likely to trade him anyways? Sox could always talk about an extension if they decide to keep him two seasons from now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 09:19 PM) Why bother when we are likely to trade him anyways? Sox could always talk about an extension if they decide to keep him two seasons from now the trick then would be he'd be unlikely to add "Just 2 years" to his deal. If you want to extend him when he has 2 years left on his deal and he's still pitching like this, you're going to have to rip up the $20 million remaining on that deal and make it like 6/$150 or something like that. At the very least, you'd be paying a helluva lot for him when he's 35. You could do that too, but you've got to figure the price goes up the longer you wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 08:23 PM) the trick then would be he'd be unlikely to add "Just 2 years" to his deal. If you want to extend him when he has 2 years left on his deal and he's still pitching like this, you're going to have to rip up the $20 million remaining on that deal and make it like 6/$150 or something like that. At the very least, you'd be paying a helluva lot for him when he's 35. You could do that too, but you've got to figure the price goes up the longer you wait. Eventually trading him is a much better move than extending a player who will be on the wrong side of thirty. We need the prospect haul q can bring to boost the rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Q is under control , including two option years, through the '20 season and will turn 32 before ST in '21. As much as I like Q, I see no point in trying to extend him beyond the '20 season. Q is 28 now so at this point in time how can we possibly know if we will want to keep him beyond the '20 season? IMHO, it's an unnecessary risk for a team that will likely develop his replacement long before that contract expires. I'm not against keeping Q, just the idea of extending him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 10:42 PM) Q is under control , including two option years, through the '20 season and will turn 32 before ST in '21. As much as I like Q, I see no point in trying to extend him beyond the '20 season. Q is 28 now so at this point in time how can we possibly know if we will want to keep him beyond the '20 season? IMHO, it's an unnecessary risk for a team that will likely develop his replacement long before that contract expires. I'm not against keeping Q, just the idea of extending him. Keeping him makes little sense to me if you're not going to extend him early, because his departure after 2020 is right at the start of the White Sox's window. They get him for 1 year out of the time this group should be potentially ready to contribute, in exchange for spending 3 years here. That said, the reason I started dropping dollar amounts is that I often get the feeling these suggestions happen because people don't realize what they're talking about monetarily. If Jose pitches out his contract, remains a 4-5 WAR a year pitcher, hits free agency at age 31, he's going to be on line for a $200 million contract given what pitchers are getting right now and contracts going up over 5% a year. He already has some monetary security, with his next deal he can knock it out of the park. There's a huge difference for him monetarily between him hitting FA at age 31 and 33 - like $50 million+. You'd have to make this worth it to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yea just trade him. No offense Q love ya bro but this is bidness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 09:58 PM) Keeping him makes little sense to me if you're not going to extend him early, because his departure after 2020 is right at the start of the White Sox's window. They get him for 1 year out of the time this group should be potentially ready to contribute, in exchange for spending 3 years here. That said, the reason I started dropping dollar amounts is that I often get the feeling these suggestions happen because people don't realize what they're talking about monetarily. If Jose pitches out his contract, remains a 4-5 WAR a year pitcher, hits free agency at age 31, he's going to be on line for a $200 million contract given what pitchers are getting right now and contracts going up over 5% a year. He already has some monetary security, with his next deal he can knock it out of the park. There's a huge difference for him monetarily between him hitting FA at age 31 and 33 - like $50 million+. You'd have to make this worth it to him. I see what you're getting at but I still see no point in extending a 28 year old pitcher with four years left on his current deal. Right now it's easy to look at how Q has performed over the last four years and want to extend him but would we still feel the same way as he gets into his thirties and begins regressing like many pitchers do or becomes injured? If either of those things happen we can start saying goodbye to his surplus value and could become difficult to trade. If Q regresses to a #3-5 starter, how will we feel about paying him that money then?Another aspect I'm thinking of is imo, it would be better to keep that extension money and use it towards locking up some of the core players that develop over the next few years. Pitchers regress with age and injuries happen as we have seen with Danks so for a rebuilding team like the Sox that do a good of developing pitching it would be a waste to extend Q. I like Q as much as any Sox fan but no chance I would consider extending him. I cannot think of one good reason to do so at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I think now and even at the deadline the sox should look for a big haul and otherwise keep him because they have the leverage. if no one bites you can sell him for a slightly discounted but still very good package in the next offseason or even the next deadline. I would prefer a trade now because an injury or underperformance can always happen but this is the perfect situation to overplay your hand a little. there is a solid chance that the astros, cubs, dodgers or red sox have a major rotation injury and get desperate at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Extending Q for two more years at $25M per while guaranteeing his two options years does not make him a more valuable trade asset. Teams are simply not going to pay us extra for a 5th & 6th year at market value, because god only knows what kind of pitcher Quintana will be at that time. As for us, why commit $25M for a 32 year old starting pitcher in 2021 when we should have younger pitchers we'd like to extend at that point including Rodon (unlikely I know), Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, etc? The strength of our system right now is pitching prospects and you got to have faith in enough of them panning out. Any significant financial resources should go towards addressing our offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 11:24 PM) I see what you're getting at but I still see no point in extending a 28 year old pitcher with four years left on his current deal. Right now it's easy to look at how Q has performed over the last four years and want to extend him but would we still feel the same way as he gets into his thirties and begins regressing like many pitchers do or becomes injured? If either of those things happen we can start saying goodbye to his surplus value and could become difficult to trade. If Q regresses to a #3-5 starter, how will we feel about paying him that money then?Another aspect I'm thinking of is imo, it would be better to keep that extension money and use it towards locking up some of the core players that develop over the next few years. Pitchers regress with age and injuries happen as we have seen with Danks so for a rebuilding team like the Sox that do a good of developing pitching it would be a waste to extend Q. I like Q as much as any Sox fan but no chance I would consider extending him. I cannot think of one good reason to do so at this time. Well said. I absolutely love Q, but it would be much wiser for the Sox to cash in on him now and further the rebuild by trading him for a big prospect package than extending him. Like you said, the Sox should be able to develop his replacement anyway and I'd much rather use the money they'd potentially give him in an extension on a premier free agent like Machado or someone else. It would be a much better use of resources for a team like the Sox that struggles to develop hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 05:47 AM) Well said. I absolutely love Q, but it would be much wiser for the Sox to cash in on him now and further the rebuild by trading him for a big prospect package than extending him. Like you said, the Sox should be able to develop his replacement anyway and I'd much rather use the money they'd potentially give him in an extension on a premier free agent like Machado or someone else. It would be a much better use of resources for a team like the Sox that struggles to develop hitting. Agreed. Trading Q for a good quality haul would do much more for the entire organization than adding two years to the end of Q's current contract. Trading Q is still the best thing to do for the organization. After sleeping on it I did come up with one very unlikely reason for keeping Q and possibly extending him but it's a huge "if". That very unlikely "if" would be if some crazy GM offered a huge haul for Rodon. Then I could see keeping Q around and possibly adding a few years to the end of his current deal. Even then its very risky extending him into age 32 and beyond unless the annual salary is reasonable which at this point there's no way of knowing. Let's say the crazy scenario of trading Rodon happened. Even then I see no point in extending Q until the winter before the '19 season. If Q is holding up strong, then offer a four year deal that starts by picking up the '19/'20 option years and adding two years on top of those. Waiting two more seasons before offering an extension would give the Sox a better idea of if they even need/want to extend Q and at what cost. Waiting two years also allows the Sox time to see what young pitchers have developed during that two year span. In theory it sounds OK but that's based on the huge "if" Rodon were traded for a huge haul which is unlikely since the smart money says hold onto Rodon for at least 1-2 more seasons to build more value. Now that we've explored unlikely scenerios and have come full circle. f*** it, just trade Q and further the rebuild. Edited January 31, 2017 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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