southsider2k5 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-best-an...-team-defenses/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Yeah its gonna be fun, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 No surprise really. The OF defense has to be dragging these projections down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I'm a bit surprised. We weren't any good in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:14 PM) No surprise really. The OF defense has to be dragging these projections down. I think it is too soon to know what the Sox are going to be on defense. If Garcia is DFA'ed in ST and Cabrera becomes the everyday DH, they could have one of the better defensive OF's in baseball. Or they could with the all Garcia OF to try and tank. Too many permutations at this time to buy into what they are selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:14 PM) No surprise really. The OF defense has to be dragging these projections down. I wouldn't think it would be that drastic of a change. Cabrera will be the same. They lose with Eaton gone but improve with Tilson in CF and I would think a better CF is more valuable than a decrease in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:26 PM) I think it is too soon to know what the Sox are going to be on defense. If Garcia is DFA'ed in ST and Cabrera becomes the everyday DH, they could have one of the better defensive OF's in baseball. Or they could with the all Garcia OF to try and tank. Too many permutations at this time to buy into what they are selling. Who is even left to play OF at that point to form "one of the better defensive OF's in baseball"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:28 PM) I wouldn't think it would be that drastic of a change. Cabrera will be the same. They lose with Eaton gone but improve with Tilson in CF and I would think a better CF is more valuable than a decrease in RF. Going from Adam Eaton (2016 version) to Avi Garcia in RF is probably as big of a defensive drop as conceivably possible. Tilson may be an improvement in CF, but he's not really not that good out there. He will not come close to making up the difference in lost RF defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 05:56 PM) Who is even left to play OF at that point to form "one of the better defensive OF's in baseball"? Bourjos, who I think makes the team as 4th OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 05:56 PM) Who is even left to play OF at that point to form "one of the better defensive OF's in baseball"? An outfield of Engel/Tilson/Bourjos would be quite stout defensively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:03 PM) Going from Adam Eaton (2016 version) to Avi Garcia in RF is probably as big of a defensive drop as conceivably possible. Tilson may be an improvement in CF, but he's not really not that good out there. He will not come close to making up the difference in lost RF defense. I thought i read somewhere that he was the best defensive OF the Cardinals had. And they had some good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:14 PM) An outfield of Engel/Tilson/Bourjos would be quite stout defensively No way in hell Tilson would start in CF over Engel, but regardless that might be the worst offensive OF in baseball history. You might not get 15 HRs out of that OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:04 PM) Bourjos, who I think makes the team as 4th OF. Is Bourjos even that good of an OF anymore? I really don't see a scenario where we have an elite defensive OF unless we go with Engel in CF & Tilson in LF, which would basically be giving up on having an offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) I thought i read somewhere that he was the best defensive OF the Cardinals had. And they had some good ones. Everything I've read suggests he's average at best out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:27 PM) No way in hell Tilson would start in CF over Engel, but regardless that might be the worst offensive OF in baseball history. You might not get 15 HRs out of that OF. Didn't put them in any particular order in previous post. I'd go LF - Tilson, CF - Engel, RF - Bourjos. And yes it would be brutal offensively but so is Avi. Might as well field a top 5 outfield defense then. Sure would help our future trade chips Q and Robertson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:38 PM) Didn't put them in any particular order in previous post. I'd go LF - Tilson, CF - Engel, RF - Bourjos. And yes it would be brutal offensively but so is Avi. Might as well field a top 5 outfield defense then. Sure would help our future trade chips Q and Robertson. I mean, it's an interesting way to tank. I'll give you that. Just don't see them rushing Engel. He still has a non-zero chance of being a special player if (and it's a big one) he could ever learn to make consistent contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:28 PM) I wouldn't think it would be that drastic of a change. Cabrera will be the same. They lose with Eaton gone but improve with Tilson in CF and I would think a better CF is more valuable than a decrease in RF. I'm guessing those projections were based on Melky in LF and Avi in RF. Both are below average defensively and can be absolute nightmares to watch on the field. I like Tilson in CF but how much of an improvement is he defensively over AJax? AJax played a pretty good CF last year so I'm really not sold on the perceived upgrade at this point. Now if the Sox can get both Avi and Melky off the field, then the outfield could look much more lively out there if we see players like Bourjos, Engel, May thrown into the mix. Screw it. Just DFA Avi, move Melky to DH, throw Tilson in LF, Engel in CF, Bourjos in RF. They won't hit much but at least their defense should save some wear and tear on the pitchers. Plus, their lack of hitting will add to the TANK FOR BEER '18 campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 05:28 PM) I wouldn't think it would be that drastic of a change. Cabrera will be the same. They lose with Eaton gone but improve with Tilson in CF and I would think a better CF is more valuable than a decrease in RF. If Tilson hits .175 or so, he won't be playing. Plus, we haven't seen him play out there yet. Hard to say he will be an improvement. I mean, we traded Duke for him, straight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 08:15 PM) I mean, it's an interesting way to tank. I'll give you that. Just don't see them rushing Engel. He still has a non-zero chance of being a special player if (and it's a big one) he could ever learn to make consistent contact. Rushing Engel? This is his 5th year of pro ball, after 3 yrs of college ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:38 PM) Rushing Engel? This is his 5th year of pro ball, after 3 yrs of college ball. He only has 161 plate appearances in AAA in which he struck out 31% of the time. I'd call giving him a stating gig out of spring training would be rushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:48 PM) He only has 161 plate appearances in AAA in which he struck out 31% of the time. I'd call giving him a stating gig out of spring training would be rushing. Doesn't necessarily have to break camp with the big league team but I would be very surprised if he wasn't called up before July 4th (unless something went terribly wrong, like hitting .225 in AAA). Between injuries and trades it's hard to imagine a scenario where he doesn't get significant big league action in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Gotta get bad to get good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Eaton had like +21 DRS in RF last year. So that's not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:21 PM) I'm guessing those projections were based on Melky in LF and Avi in RF. Both are below average defensively and can be absolute nightmares to watch on the field. I like Tilson in CF but how much of an improvement is he defensively over AJax? AJax played a pretty good CF last year so I'm really not sold on the perceived upgrade at this point. Now if the Sox can get both Avi and Melky off the field, then the outfield could look much more lively out there if we see players like Bourjos, Engel, May thrown into the mix. Screw it. Just DFA Avi, move Melky to DH, throw Tilson in LF, Engel in CF, Bourjos in RF. They won't hit much but at least their defense should save some wear and tear on the pitchers. Plus, their lack of hitting will add to the TANK FOR BEER '18 campaign. Jackson only played about 50 games or so last year. i was comparing him to all of the others that played there. However, it also looks like I was wrong about his defense being really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:30 PM) If Tilson hits .175 or so, he won't be playing. Plus, we haven't seen him play out there yet. Hard to say he will be an improvement. I mean, we traded Duke for him, straight up. This goes without saying. Unless of course they just want to tank and give him a full year post injury to adjust to the MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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