Players go to bat for Manuels Style

[Cali]

Carl Everett and Mark Buehrle tackled the perception Wednesday that the White Sox would benefit from hiring a fiery, kick-'em-in-the-rear manager.

 

"I think [the team] would do a lot worse because we have some guys who don't take criticism well," Everett said.

 

Buehrle called Manuel "an easy guy to play for" and suggested his style works for the Sox.

 

"Even in the minor leagues, I only had guys who were laid-back, not hard-nosed, getting in somebody's face," Buehrle said. "Everybody keeps on saying that that's maybe what we need, but we have a lot of veterans who take care of their own business, and getting a guy like that might not do us any good.

 

"It might [tick] people off."

 

Buehrle said Manuel has had the players' best interests at heart.

 

"There have been a couple of times he has taken me out of games early and I didn't like it," Buehrle said. "But he's the boss. And he's looking out for our health down the road."

 

While Manuel has accepted responsibility for the 4-9 skid that cost the Sox a chance for postseason play, Everett said that's not necessary. In fact, it's not accurate.

 

"We didn't lose because of Jerry Manuel," he said. "You have guys who have eight to 15 years [of service time] on this team. Managers don't win for these types of ballclubs. Any player who makes the excuse that a manger lost for us, I think you need to go home."

 

If Manuel is replaced, look for Indians bench coach Buddy Bell to draw interest. Bell, who managed the Rockies and Tigers, served as a Sox minor-league instructor from 1991-93.

 

"His Style Works For The Sox" in what f***ing way Mark?

[JoshPR]

Carl Everett and Mark Buehrle tackled the perception Wednesday that the White Sox would benefit from hiring a fiery, kick-'em-in-the-rear manager.

 

"I think [the team] would do a lot worse because we have some guys who don't take criticism well," Everett said.

 

Buehrle called Manuel "an easy guy to play for" and suggested his style works for the Sox.

 

"Even in the minor leagues, I only had guys who were laid-back, not hard-nosed, getting in somebody's face," Buehrle said. "Everybody keeps on saying that that's maybe what we need, but we have a lot of veterans who take care of their own business, and getting a guy like that might not do us any good.

 

"It might [tick] people off."

 

Buehrle said Manuel has had the players' best interests at heart.

 

"There have been a couple of times he has taken me out of games early and I didn't like it," Buehrle said. "But he's the boss. And he's looking out for our health down the road."

 

While Manuel has accepted responsibility for the 4-9 skid that cost the Sox a chance for postseason play, Everett said that's not necessary. In fact, it's not accurate.

 

"We didn't lose because of Jerry Manuel," he said. "You have guys who have eight to 15 years [of service time] on this team. Managers don't win for these types of ballclubs. Any player who makes the excuse that a manger lost for us, I think you need to go home."

 

If Manuel is replaced, look for Indians bench coach Buddy Bell to draw interest. Bell, who managed the Rockies and Tigers, served as a Sox minor-league instructor from 1991-93.

 

"His Style Works For The Sox" in what f***ing way Mark?

Awwww Well that's just too bad Mark... Of course you don't want anybody to tell you when your stinking up the joint.. Why cause with Manuel you have it easy and all you little b****es do as you please...

 

F that.. It's time to get on you guys' primadonna asses

[Chisoxfn]

I am excited to see a change here. I don't hate Manuel...but someone has to be blamed for this. I think hands down the big blame gets handed on the players, but Manuel gave them too much slack when they weren't living up to it.

 

I think Manuel will be gone and will be very sucessful as a manager in Philly (I really have a feeling he will be the man to replace Bowa who is gonna get canned).

 

The Sox can then give Backman the job...instead of him leaving the organization and Alomar Jr...will have a minor league position available if he retires.

 

I do like that the players stick up for JM..it shows some of them care at least. I think the big thing with this team is they aren't built to win close games..offensively. Pitching wise its fine. The pen struggled at times but bottom line the pitching staff got the job done so many times. It was the offensive players that didn't execute in key situations (Such as runner on 3rd and less than one out or moving a guy over).

 

Those things had to be stressed more by JM...but the players need to do it. A few changes need to be on the offensive side to improve the teams style of play and mend it more to this liking while still keeping some power.

 

Most importantly get the front 4 of the rotation back and I'd bring back the entire pen. I'd consider moving Wunsch if Munoz or Sanders pitches strong in spring because I believe they both have very bright futures. Cotts could also fit in the pen...although give him some seasoning in AAA so he can fine tune his control and harness the cutter that he will be working on as well as improving his secondary pitches (The curve and the changeup).

 

While the organizatoin is definately a bit weaker at the higher levels...you still have guys that can step in and help. Guys like Felix Diaz, Gary Majewski (I love this kid), Munoz (stud...only 21 and already has a full season in AAA), as well as Sanders (young too), and Rauch (If he can recover). Plus you have Borchard and Reed position wise and then the likes of Harris and Miles in the infield. I know the Sox biggest need is middle infield help and most likely they will have to get it from another organization or the free agent market. Yan is probably the one guy that could do it...if he ever improved the stick.

 

Then in AA you have some solid pitching...starting with Pacheco and Cotts and then a very solid pen with Bullard and Baj.

 

Basically in short...this team is still gonna find itself in a position to win next year and it still has enough depth in the organization to fill holes from within. And at the lower levels their appears to be quite a bit of talent...especially if they can somehow sign those two lefty studs from the past draft..Veal and Moviel.

[Cali]

I agree the most important priority this off-season beside canning JM is keeping the big four together.

 

Pitching wins. As the A's have proven, a patch work offense can keep you in the division, not that I'm saying the Sox are as good as the A's, look at the type seasons they got out of guys like Scott Hatteberg, John Mabry, Adam Piatt etc. for just one or two seasons. They have a bunch of guys that'll hit .260-.270, with 15-20 HR's, and great pitching

[JoshPR]

I don't hate Manuel either. but it's time for a change. As you said Gahndi cut too much slack to these guys and Basicly they did what they felt like it. No.. that can't happen. Yes Have Fun, Play the game but dam do your job and stop b****ing, Moaning Growning and Whining

[Bmr31]

I dont give a crap what MB says....this is the guy who pouted because he got pushed back one day. Hes just a big baby like many of the others. Get a new manager in here, if the players dont like to be managed, send them elsewhere.

[YASNY]

I don't have any problem with Buehrle sticking up for Manuel. JM has been his only big league manager. You'd expect a little bit of loyalty there. In fact, it might be more alarming if he didn't "get his back".

 

For the most part, people here seemed to feel that the way JM handled that Cotts/Buehrle fiasco in New York was, well to put it nicely, mishandled. Mark was all primed to pitch in Yankee Stadium and didn't get the opportunity. Even though I defended JM at the time, that may have been the key decision this season that led to the el foldo. The players seemed to feel that MB got screwed, and with the loss of that game and the next one in Detroit.... hell it just might have been. That sweep in Yankee Stadium might have been the magic bullet for this team. Sadly, we'll never know.

[DBAHO]

That's exactly why JM should be canned. We'll never know if we could win da division if JM didn't change Cotts and Buerhle around and lose all of da momentum that we were building. We need a guy who can install a hard, tough winning culture into da clubhouse. Too bad JM just wasn't that guy.

[YASNY]

I don't have any problem with Buehrle sticking up for Manuel.  JM has been his only big league manager.  You'd expect a little bit of loyalty there.  In fact, it might be more alarming if he didn't "get his back". 

 

For the most part, people here seemed to feel that the way JM handled that Cotts/Buehrle fiasco in New York was, well to put it nicely, mishandled.  Mark was all primed to pitch in Yankee Stadium and didn't get the opportunity.  Even though I defended JM at the time, that may have been the key decision this season that led to the el foldo.  The players seemed to feel that MB got screwed, and with the loss of that game and the next one in Detroit.... hell it just might have been.  That sweep in Yankee Stadium might have been the magic bullet for this team.  Sadly, we'll never know.

A few hours after making the above post, I ran across this in Barry Rozner's column today.

 

The breaking point

 

After much conversation with some major-league scouts, the "Neal Cotts Game'' on Aug. 28 in New York was voted most likely to have started the Sox' demise.

 

There also were votes for the "Jose Paniagua Game'' Sept. 9. The Twins rallied late and didn't win, but they've hardly lost since, while the Sox lost the next five to Minnesota.

 

My vote still goes to Opening Day.

[DBAHO]

I think the Jose Panigua situation is a perfect example of Manuel's stupidity. We've been reeling ever since that moment.

[YASNY]

I think the Jose Panigua situation is a perfect example of Manuel's stupidity. We've been reeling ever since that moment.

We reeled and the Twins rolled. Another season bites the dust.

[IlliniBob72]

I think the Jose Panigua situation is a perfect example of Manuel's stupidity. We've been reeling ever since that moment.

I believe Manual should go, but what about the Paniagua game do people have a beef with, besides the final results? Bringing him in at all? I hope that's not it, because if you can't bring a pitcher in with a 6 run lead in the ninth, then he shouldn't be on your roster whatsoever. Leaving him in so long? I didn't see the inning, so I can't judge really. Four runs were scored, so it is sort of apparent he was in too long.

 

I can't fault him for bringing him in, so if that's the beef, I've got to disagree. It is very unfortunate though, as it seemed to have fired up the Twinkies. But I agree with Rozner...the turning point of the season was the opening sweep in KC. Set the tone for a s***ty first half.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

If the players wanted to play for Manuel so much, they should have won for him, playing hard from day 1 through yesterday. Having failed to do that, they have no voice in the decision on the managerial job.

[chosk8]

I'm wondering why nobody here has criticized Carl Everett who basically expressed the same feelings as Mark Buehrle? I know a lot of posters here have jumped on the Everett bandwagon, but why is he immune to your criticism? Why so hard on Mark and Carl is left alone?

[IlliniBob72]

I took what Everett said as not so much a defense of Manuel as an indictment of the players. He essentially said that the players in that clubhouse need pampering and couldn't take a guy that holds them accountable. Also said the players have a lot of responsibility for what happens and they failed.

[Dick Allen]

Manuel has to go and will go because he doesn't know how to run a pitching staff, which is the most important thing a manager does, and he can't motivate his players enough to get them to even run out a ground ball. Next time you watch a game, watch how lazily the Sox players go down the line on a groundball, the ONLY person who really busts his ass everytime is Rowand. A true leader wouldn't let that happen time and time again without saying something. How many times do the Sox throw to the wrong base and/or miss the cutoff man? Too many to mention. The same players make the same mistakes over and over and nothing is done about it. How many stupid baserunning mistakes are made time and time again? Either JM isn't saying anything to them, or they are ignoring him. How many ill fated bunt attempts have we seen the last couple of years? I'm glad the players like Manuel, he seems to be a great person. Too bad they didn't think enough of him to play anywhere near their potential. With 38 games against Cleveland and Detroit , there is no way this team should have had less than 95 wins.

[winninguglyin83]

These guys have underachieved for three straight seasons, sitting there while the Central Division dominance was tranferred from Cleveland to Minnesota.

 

The expected and planned for White Sox Reign never occurred.

 

If these players don't like somebody who is going to get in their s*** when they lose 8 times to the Tigers, four times to Texas and EVERY SERIES on the West Coast, Too bad.

 

 

It's not time for a CHANGE.

 

It's time for CHANGES -- out the door with anybody who thinks it was OK to roll over and die the last 2 1/2 weeks of the season.

[CubKilla]

These guys have underachieved for three straight seasons, sitting there while the Central Division dominance was tranferred from Cleveland to Minnesota.

 

The expected and planned for White Sox Reign never occurred.

Too bad these players passion for JM couldn't be translated into their on-field play. I don't think it is so much JM than it is the country club lifestyle JM allows to occur in the clubhouse win or lose.

[elrockinMT]

I think the Jose Panigua situation is a perfect example of Manuel's stupidity. We've been reeling ever since that moment.

I don't think Jerry Manuel had anything to do with signing and then calling up Panaigua. He may have been told to use him at some point and see what the guy had. However, Panny never showed anything at Charlotte and whoever did call him up (decision wise that is) should be slapped silly.

[HighHeat45]

He probebly threated to kill or rape them if they didnt support him.

[Steff]

That's exactly why JM should be canned. We'll never know if we could win da division if JM didn't change Cotts and Buerhle around and lose all of da momentum that we were building. We need a guy who can install a hard, tough winning culture into da clubhouse. Too bad JM just wasn't that guy.

OMG... You have got to be kidding me, right?

 

How about blaming the offense for taking a nap the first 2 months of the season..?

 

Had they got their heads out of their asses a bit sooner it never would have come to this. We should have been up 10+ games by the break.

[Chisoxfn]

This season wasn't won or lost based on one game...it was lost based on the Sox not executing and doing the little things.

[whitesoxfan99]

This season wasn't won or lost based on one game...it was lost based on the Sox not executing and doing the little things.

What, and all this time I thought it was Benedict Loaiza's fault.

[Chisoxfn]

What, and all this time I thought it was Benedict Loaiza's fault.

ROFL

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

While Manuel has accepted responsibility for the 4-9 skid that cost the Sox a chance for postseason play, Everett said that's not necessary. In fact, it's not accurate. We didn't lose because of Jerry Manuel," he said. "You have guys who have eight to 15 years [of service time] on this team. Managers don't win for these types of ballclubs. Any player who makes the excuse that a manger lost for us, I think you need to go home."

 

while i find it interesting that everyone is so quick to point out mark making comments on pampering the players and not gettin in their faces, you all seemed to skip over the highlight of the comments which came from carl everett....espically the part about guys who have 8-15 years of service.. well mho, if you dont know whats expected of you on a baseball field by then .. you have no business being out there in the first place, good or bad manager at your helm.......