Updated teams interested in Q

[southsider2k5]

This is pretty much how I feel. The Sox are also incredibly due for some good fortune on the offensive side. Maybe Saladino figures it out this year and becomes our 3B for the next 5 years. Maybe a guy like Liriano or May or Engel become MLB regulars. I am more bullish on Collins than SS2K (shocker). I think he is one the best sticks at C in the league by 2019. Hopefully he continues to develop behind the plate. Plus the infusion of talent we get from Q, Jones, Frazier and Robertson, and the periphery guys like Gonzo, Jennings, Melky, Petricka. I expect Hahn to focus on bats moving forward.

 

Where we sit right now, its hard to see how this team can be competitive in 2019, but there is a lot more to be done, and I expect the Sox FO to continue to focus on MLB ready or near MLB ready prospects. Plus, our payroll will be peanuts and we'll be able to play in FA. Again, I see no scenario where the Sox don't try to be competitive in 2019, unless basically everything we acquired this winter flames out.

 

With Collins, there are two schools of thought. I think the bat will be ready for him to be up by the end of next year. But if he is going to be a catcher, he defensive skills are WAY behind his bat. That is the universal sentiment for him. Mid-2019 to 2020 is probably realistic for his glove and game behind the plate. I mean if you think about it, mid 2019 is only 3 full years in the minors for a guy. That isn't really that much.

[iamshack]

I mean this is how the rebuild looks so far.

 

1. Get tons of pitching potential

2. Get a couple of offensive players

3?

4. Playoffs.

 

Bastardizing an old GM quote.. the pieces are not in place, yet. Sure we can still trade for guys in the future, but that only pushes the timeline out further, just like I said. Even if we end up with the #1 pick in the 2017 and 2018 drafts, when do you think those guys will be ready to play? When do you think they will be contributors? Even if the draft class we just had turns out great, when will they be ready?

 

This franchise just has way too many holes today for this to happen quickly. Sure the holes can be filled, but not instantly.

For the same reasons you are saying we can't know when we will be competitive, it can come together more quickly than we anticipate. WAY too many moving parts to know to any degree of certainty what the future holds.

[Rowand44]

I mean this is how the rebuild looks so far.

 

1. Get tons of pitching potential

2. Get a couple of offensive players

3?

4. Playoffs.

 

Bastardizing an old GM quote.. the pieces are not in place, yet. Sure we can still trade for guys in the future, but that only pushes the timeline out further, just like I said. Even if we end up with the #1 pick in the 2017 and 2018 drafts, when do you think those guys will be ready to play? When do you think they will be contributors? Even if the draft class we just had turns out great, when will they be ready?

 

This franchise just has way too many holes today for this to happen quickly. Sure the holes can be filled, but not instantly.

I haven't seen one person mention the 2017 or 2018 draft picks when it comes to being ready to compete in 2019. Nobody knows the timeline of these guys(except you apparently) but there's a chance they have an elite rotation in 2019 and if that's the case they're going to be adding offense through free agency. Not to mention they've already acquired 3 guys via trade in the offseason who are pretty much ready to play so if you don't think they're going to acquire some more guys who can play by 2019 then you're just being ridiculous. Like I said, I don't freakin know what's going to happen between now and then but the possibility to be competitive in 2019 is definitely there.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Rowand44

[illinilaw08]

I haven't seen one person mention the 2017 or 2018 draft picks when it comes to being ready to compete in 2019. Nobody knows the timeline of these guys(except you apparently) but there's a chance they have an elite rotation in 2019 and if that's the case they're going to be adding offense through free agency. Not to mention they've already acquired 3 guys via trade in the offseason who are pretty much ready to play so if you don't think they're going to acquire some more guys who can play by 2019 then you're just being ridiculous. Like I said, I don't freakin know what's going to happen between now and then but the possibility to be competitive in 2019 is definitely there.

 

This. If everything goes right on the rebuild, the Sox will have a top of the line rotation, and one of the better middle infields in baseball locked in, and the influx of top end talent isn't close to done yet (Q trade, next 2 drafts).

[hi8is]

Aside from the continual reiterations of trade scenarios, I will say this: competing in the 2019 FA market and as a team is absolutely on the table. No doubts about that.

[Quin]

My ideal Atlanta package - Maitan, Allard, Acuna and Riley.

 

There's no Moncada or Kopech in that group, so I have no qualms asking for their 3, 4, 8 and 13 prospects in their system.

[southsider2k5]

I haven't seen one person mention the 2017 or 2018 draft picks when it comes to being ready to compete in 2019. Nobody knows the timeline of these guys(except you apparently) but there's a chance they have an elite rotation in 2019 and if that's the case they're going to be adding offense through free agency. Not to mention they've already acquired 3 guys via trade in the offseason who are pretty much ready to play so if you don't think they're going to acquire some more guys who can play by 2019 then you're just being ridiculous. Like I said, I don't freakin know what's going to happen between now and then but the possibility to be competitive in 2019 is definitely there.

 

The problem is the talented positional players aren't here yet by and large. I don't see enough guys here to even replace the players we are going to lose in the near to mid-term. The longer it takes to get these guys here, the longer the timeline pushes out. If we have to wait until the draft picks get here it pushes out even further.

 

If we were the Yankees or Boston and had positional talent in the minor league system, sure you can start to apply some narrowing of the expectations of guys getting here. To a wide extent, we don't even have that much. I can point to five positions on the field and have close to zero answers for who could play them in 2019. I don't see how you can start to talk about the playoffs when you can't even point to a guy and say this guy should be our CF/3B/RF/LF, etc.

[southsider2k5]

My ideal Atlanta package - Maitan, Allard, Acuna and Riley.

 

There's no Moncada or Kopech in that group, so I have no qualms asking for their 3, 4, 8 and 13 prospects in their system.

 

That is pretty much an ideal package for what the Sox need.

[NCsoxfan]

Dang, Acuna is crushing it. Kid was 3-3 with 3hrs the other night.

[Dick Allen]

I see no possible way this team punts the next 3 seasons.

The last time they went total rebuild, it took 3 tanking seasons although they projected 4. They wanted the team to be in place for the new park, but 1990 happened.

 

And they didn't miss on their 1st round picks who were all on the team by August of 1990, and their trades were pretty stellar.

 

They also didn't trade their main chips, Dotson, Bannister, DeLeon until after the 1987 season, when they dumped all 3, and didn't trade Harold for a year and a half after that. They kept Fisk and Ozzie, and Calderon.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

That is pretty much an ideal package for what the Sox need.

 

And before anyone says it's too rich for Quintana, here would be the Sale-trade equivalent

 

Moncada > Swanson

Kopech > Maitan

Basabe = Acuna

Diaz

[illinilaw08]

The problem is the talented positional players aren't here yet by and large. I don't see enough guys here to even replace the players we are going to lose in the near to mid-term. The longer it takes to get these guys here, the longer the timeline pushes out. If we have to wait until the draft picks get here it pushes out even further.

 

If we were the Yankees or Boston and had positional talent in the minor league system, sure you can start to apply some narrowing of the expectations of guys getting here. To a wide extent, we don't even have that much. I can point to five positions on the field and have close to zero answers for who could play them in 2019. I don't see how you can start to talk about the playoffs when you can't even point to a guy and say this guy should be our CF/3B/RF/LF, etc.

 

From a position player standpoint, the Sox system is much further along today than it was 9 months ago. Moncada and Collins speak for themselves, but Basabe, Call, and Fisher all have high upside as well. I can't point to any of those 3 and say they will be there in '19, but with a good year or two in the minors, they could be. Add to that whoever the Sox grab at #11 in this draft (and in subsequent rounds in this draft), and you might start to be building a pipeline of position talent that you can look to in '19.

 

Today, yeah, the Sox system still needs a lot of work on the position player side, but this year alone, there's still a draft and a bunch of trades to be made to keep adding to the position player side of things.

 

Note, I think '19 is pretty optimistic to talk playoffs. But it's not out of the realm of possibility to talk playoffs in '20 or '21.

 

[ChiSox59]

The last time they went total rebuild, it took 3 tanking seasons although they projected 4. They wanted the team to be in place for the new park, but 1990 happened.

 

And they didn't miss on their 1st round picks who were all on the team by August of 1990, and their trades were pretty stellar.

 

They also didn't trade their main chips, Dotson, Bannister, DeLeon until after the 1987 season, when they dumped all 3, and didn't trade Harold for a year and a half after that. They kept Fisk and Ozzie, and Calderon.

 

What happened then has zero bearing on what happens now.

[Chicago White Sox]

Easy path to the 2020 World Series (only semi-serious):

 

1) Trade Quintana for Martes, Tucker, & Reed

 

2) Sign Luis Robert as amateur free agent

 

3) Draft Seth Beer in 2018 MLB draft

 

4) Sign Josh Donaldson in 2018-19 free agent class

 

1B: Reed

2B: Moncada

SS: Anderson

3B: Donaldson

LF: Beer

CF: Robert

RF: Tucker

DH: Abreu

C: Collins

 

#1: Kopech

#2: Rodon

#3: Giolito

#4: Hansen

#5: Martes

 

CL: Burdi

SU: Lopez

SU: Fulmer

MR: Stephens

MR: Flores

MR: Dunning

LR: Adams

[Bob Sacamano]

Easy path to the 2020 World Series (only semi-serious):

 

1) Trade Quintana for Martes, Tucker, & Reed

 

2) Sign Luis Robert as amateur free agent

 

3) Draft Seth Beer in 2018 MLB draft

 

4) Sign Josh Donaldson in 2018-19 free agent class

 

5) Re-sign Abreu

 

1B: Reed

2B: Moncada

SS: Anderson

3B: Donaldson

LF: Beer

CF: Robert

RF: Tucker

DH: Abreu

C: Collins

 

#1: Kopech

#2: Rodon

#3: Giolito

#4: Hansen

#5: Martes

 

CL: Burdi

SU: Lopez

SU: Fulmer

MR: Stephens

MR: Flores

MR: Dunning

LR: Adams

 

Fixed one minor detail.

 

[Dick Allen]

What happened then has zero bearing on what happens now.

I don't know. I bet it was used at least as an outline. A lot of things went right then. And for the most part, they acquired guys that were maybe a year closer than this current group of acquistions to contributing on the major league roster. There are a couple of guys here that could probably get their feet wet this year, but a lot of them are at least a couple of years away, and rookies usually don't lead to many wins. If it happens again where most everything goes right, it could be 3 years. Some problems, it could be a decade.

[ptatc]

I don't know. I bet it was used at least as an outline. A lot of things went right then. And for the most part, they acquired guys that were maybe a year closer than this current group of acquistions to contributing on the major league roster. There are a couple of guys here that could probably get their feet wet this year, but a lot of them are at least a couple of years away, and rookies usually don't lead to many wins. If it happens again where most everything goes right, it could be 3 years. Some problems, it could be a decade.

People who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[steveno89]

This is the exact reason that people are too optimistic on this rebuild. The window is way too short for the guys who are in the minors now to be productive at a level to put us on a playoff arc. Plus there is still not nearly enough offensive talent even here to achieve that. Like it or not, with not getting much offensive talent in the Eaton/Sale deals, plus not getting anything for Q as of yet, the timeline really hasn't advanced that far. We still need drafts and development out of players we don't have yet.

 

There is currently not enough offensive talent, but you are discounting many factors

 

1) Likely high draft picks the next few seasons, starting with #11 overall in 2017...Sox need to draft well

 

2) Sox have tons of payroll flexibility moving forward and will be in position to spend on free agents to fill holes

 

3) The inevitable Quintana trade should net us 3-4 quality prospects, which will bolster our farm even more. I guaranty the Sox will get at least one or two bats back in a deal for him with high upside.

 

4) International signings. Sox are rumored to be very much in on Luis Robert. Going all in on him makes perfect sense for what we are trying to do.

 

Yes, we will rebuild and suck in 2017. 2018 will be painful as well as many of our young prospects going through their debut and growing pains

 

2019 the roster should be improved from our prospect depth and anticipated free agent signings. I expect the team to be active.

 

Allot can change in the next few seasons, but you have to like the pitching depth we are stocking up on

 

Rodon, Fulmer, Giolito, Burdi, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Kopech, Adams, Stephens

 

As Hahn stated, the Sox are closer to the beginning of the process than to the end.

[Buehrlesque]

Some of you people are WAY too high on Maitan. I get that he had the Miggy comp dropped on him, but as a 17-year-old who's never played in a single game here in the States, he is incredibly risky. Far too risky, IMO, to stake such a significant trade on. Yes, he has a high ceiling, but that can't be the only part of a prospect analysis, and no one can say much of anything tangible about the guy with any credibility or certainty right now. I'm not saying he won't be good, just that the Sox should go in a different direction with a trade.

[southsider2k5]

There is currently not enough offensive talent, but you are discounting many factors

 

1) Likely high draft picks the next few seasons, starting with #11 overall in 2017...Sox need to draft well

 

2) Sox have tons of payroll flexibility moving forward and will be in position to spend on free agents to fill holes

 

3) The inevitable Quintana trade should net us 3-4 quality prospects, which will bolster our farm even more. I guaranty the Sox will get at least one or two bats back in a deal for him with high upside.

 

4) International signings. Sox are rumored to be very much in on Luis Robert. Going all in on him makes perfect sense for what we are trying to do.

 

Yes, we will rebuild and suck in 2017. 2018 will be painful as well as many of our young prospects going through their debut and growing pains

 

2019 the roster should be improved from our prospect depth and anticipated free agent signings. I expect the team to be active.

 

Allot can change in the next few seasons, but you have to like the pitching depth we are stocking up on

 

Rodon, Fulmer, Giolito, Burdi, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Kopech, Adams, Stephens

 

As Hahn stated, the Sox are closer to the beginning of the process than to the end.

 

#1 and #4 go a long way towards bolstering my argument that 2019 is too soon. Those players won't be helping us in this time frame in all likelihood. The class of 2016 by and large is going to be ready to debut in around the 2019 to 2020 range, and being contributors a season or two after that.

 

Even if we sign a guy like Robert think of that time frame. When is he going to be able to sign? June? July? That gets him into the system in mid-2017 if he signs. At 19 years old, and having missed a ton of baseball recently, when is a realistic time frame for him to get to Chicago? A guy like Moncada signed in March of 15, and saw his first action in September. That gave him two full seasons in the minors for all intents and purposes. Assuming Robert is as advanced, and is able to move through the minors just as quickly, that puts his debut sometime in the middle of 2019. Also remember what Moncada looked like in his debut last year, and realize that there is a pretty good chance that expecting the guy to contribute to a playoff team in two seasons is pretty unrealistic. Realistic to me is a mid to late 2020 debut, maybe a regular and contributor by 2021 or 22.

 

#2, being a top spender in free agency is something I am going to doubt until it actually happens. Sure we have come in second for top talent a lot of times, but our history doesn't give me much hope of luring Manny Machado to the south side.

 

#3, the inevitable Q deal is of definite interest. At this point every single team we have talked about has refused to send us their top positional talent. No Meadows, no Bergman, no Swanson, no Torres. Getting one of those first three guys gives us a guy that instantly fills a hole that we currently are projecting for the future. Anyone below that and the odds of that the prospect we get failing goes up by a decent amount, along with the timeline of when they will be ready to contribute. Again, not really helping us be ready for a 2019 playoff team.

 

An Atlanta deal with Albies as a headliner gives another middle IF, but where does he play? With Anderson set at SS, and the team grooming Moncada into 2B, where does he go? If he is in the deal, one of the three is probably moving to CF, I would guess? Who knows.

 

A Houston deal with Kyle Tucker headlining the position players gives us a guy with a grand total of 69 ABs at A+ ball. The odds of him being an anchor for a 2019 playoff run? Again, maybe a guy who if he hits well can make a 2019 debut at around mid-season, but probably not someone to count on for that season.

 

A Yankees deal with Frazier as a headliner would get us a guy who is on track for a 2017 debut, and should be a contributor by the 2019 time frame. If the deal is NOT led by Frazier the prospects for a guy contributing that quickly diminishes by a large amount. Torres, (who supposedly is untouchable anyway), Rutherford, Andujar, and Mateo are in the lowest levels of the minors. They are all guys who are in the 2020 to 2021 time frame to really help a team.

 

Even when I try to put specifics into the organization, I am not seeing it.

[southsider2k5]

Rob Young‏ @RobertHYoung 2h2 hours ago Hahn wouldn't put a deadline on a potential deal in regards to Opening Day, saying when dealing with "known talent" there is no rush

 

 

[DirtySox]

Dan Hayes‏Verified account @CSNHayes 1m1 minute ago

There's at least an extra row or two of scouts here at Camelback Ranch for Jose Quintana Day. #WhiteSox

[southsider2k5]

Dan Hayes‏Verified account @CSNHayes 2m2 minutes ago

 

There's at least an extra row or two of scouts here at Camelback Ranch for Jose Quintana Day. #WhiteSox

 

[Whisox05]

Six up six down for #WhiteSox lefty Jose Quintana, who draws a crowd whenever he pitches. https://t.co/AbNOfA9Gju

https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/845010900775944193

[steveno89]

#1 and #4 go a long way towards bolstering my argument that 2019 is too soon. Those players won't be helping us in this time frame in all likelihood. The class of 2016 by and large is going to be ready to debut in around the 2019 to 2020 range, and being contributors a season or two after that.

 

Even if we sign a guy like Robert think of that time frame. When is he going to be able to sign? June? July? That gets him into the system in mid-2017 if he signs. At 19 years old, and having missed a ton of baseball recently, when is a realistic time frame for him to get to Chicago? A guy like Moncada signed in March of 15, and saw his first action in September. That gave him two full seasons in the minors for all intents and purposes. Assuming Robert is as advanced, and is able to move through the minors just as quickly, that puts his debut sometime in the middle of 2019. Also remember what Moncada looked like in his debut last year, and realize that there is a pretty good chance that expecting the guy to contribute to a playoff team in two seasons is pretty unrealistic. Realistic to me is a mid to late 2020 debut, maybe a regular and contributor by 2021 or 22.

 

#2, being a top spender in free agency is something I am going to doubt until it actually happens. Sure we have come in second for top talent a lot of times, but our history doesn't give me much hope of luring Manny Machado to the south side.

 

#3, the inevitable Q deal is of definite interest. At this point every single team we have talked about has refused to send us their top positional talent. No Meadows, no Bergman, no Swanson, no Torres. Getting one of those first three guys gives us a guy that instantly fills a hole that we currently are projecting for the future. Anyone below that and the odds of that the prospect we get failing goes up by a decent amount, along with the timeline of when they will be ready to contribute. Again, not really helping us be ready for a 2019 playoff team.

 

An Atlanta deal with Albies as a headliner gives another middle IF, but where does he play? With Anderson set at SS, and the team grooming Moncada into 2B, where does he go? If he is in the deal, one of the three is probably moving to CF, I would guess? Who knows.

 

A Houston deal with Kyle Tucker headlining the position players gives us a guy with a grand total of 69 ABs at A+ ball. The odds of him being an anchor for a 2019 playoff run? Again, maybe a guy who if he hits well can make a 2019 debut at around mid-season, but probably not someone to count on for that season.

 

A Yankees deal with Frazier as a headliner would get us a guy who is on track for a 2017 debut, and should be a contributor by the 2019 time frame. If the deal is NOT led by Frazier the prospects for a guy contributing that quickly diminishes by a large amount. Torres, (who supposedly is untouchable anyway), Rutherford, Andujar, and Mateo are in the lowest levels of the minors. They are all guys who are in the 2020 to 2021 time frame to really help a team.

 

Even when I try to put specifics into the organization, I am not seeing it.

 

What you are saying is valid, but quite a few of our prospects should be ready to contribute by 2019

 

Moncada, Collins, Giolito, Dunning, Hansen, Call, Fisher, Basabe, Burdi, Kopech, Lopez could all be at or near the mlb level

 

I'm not saying payoffs in 2019, but it is not out of the question. Detroit is getting old and does not have much of a farm system. Cleveland is in it's prime right now. Kansas City's prime is ending. The Twins are stuck rebuilding, but I like the Sox farm better.

 

What large contracts do we have on the books beyond the next 2 seasons? Sox will have tons of payroll flexibility to add to the roster via free agency. I'm not saying we shell out for the mega guys, but we have plenty of money for quality free agents

 

I'd be happy with Albies as a headlienr to a Quintana deal. He could play 2B and Moncada moves over to 3B? Albies also has the speed and arm to play in center. I'm less concerned about positions right now as I am in acquiring the best possible talent. Albies is arguably underrated despite being a top 15 prospect. Great makeup, speed, glove and hit tool