Updated teams interested in Q

[Baron]

Let's not go overboard, I don't think Houston's rotation is horrid.

 

If Charlie Morton is your #3 starter your going to have problems.

[steveno89]

Money is money. Prospects are gold to some of these teams. Houston can spend money which it's obviously that they'd rather do.

 

Even if Quintana were a 3 month rental, he still would have significant trade value

 

Few prospects are actually untouchable

 

Torres was not untouchable when the Cubs needed Chapman

 

Frazier and Sheffield were not untouchable for Miller

 

Moncada was reportedly untouchable...

 

All top prospects are untouchable...until they aren't and get traded

 

I consider a 70 grade prospect to be close to untouchable...which currently does not exist in any farm system. These are truly elite players along the lines of Trout, Bryant, Betts that are total franchise players.

 

55 Grade prospects like Martes and Tucker are nowhere near that level

[Baron]

I dont get it some times. Why dont you guys look at the teams involved? Lets highlight the Pirates and Astros. Do you guys think they operate the same as the Nationals or the Red Sox? Look at the history of Dombrowski and Rizzo. It was the perfect storm for Sale. We may never get there with Q unfortunately and it's up to the Sox then if they want to drop value/ keep him. I'd rather keep him past next offseason if he's still here.

 

You have two teams trying to trade for Q who love their prospects. Maybe it'll change at the deadline. Beyond that the Astros can spend money. The Pirates are content with doing nothing.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Baron

[steveno89]

I dont get it some times. Why dont you guys look at the teams involved? Lets highlight the Pirates and Astros. Do you guys think they operate the same as the Nationals or the Red Sox? Look at the history of Dombrowski and Rizzo. It was the perfect storm for Sale. We may never get there with Q unfortunately and it's up to the Sox then if they want to drop value/ keep him. I'd rather keep him past next offseason if he's still here.

 

You have two teams trying to trade for Q who love their prospects. Maybe it'll change at the deadline. Beyond that the Astros can spend money. The Pirates are content with doing nothing.

 

Dodgers could get involved during the season if they need rotation help?

 

Mid to small market teams tend to cling to prospects more often that larger market clubs, but not always

 

Sox hold the cards having Q under control for 4 more seasons

 

The Pirates rely too heavily on their farm to have the stones to make a big trade for Q...but when it's June or July and your team is right in the the thick of contention, or if you have a starter get hurt then Quintana for 3 1/2 seasons on a reasonable contract appears very attractive

[witesoxfan]

If Charlie Morton is your #3 starter your going to have problems.

 

Keuchel, McCullers, McHugh, and Fiers are clearly better, and you could certainly argue that Musgrove is a better pitcher at this point too. He is their 5th or 6th best pitcher, regardless of where he lines up in the rotation.

[BlackSox13]

Funny thing about the Astros and their fans is that Martes/Tucker is slightly less than Giolito/Lopez from the Eaton trade. Martes and Tucker is a reasonable starting point.

[Baron]

Dodgers could get involved during the season if they need rotation help?

 

Mid to small market teams tend to cling to prospects more often that larger market clubs, but not always

 

Sox hold the cards having Q under control for 4 more seasons

 

The Pirates rely too heavily on their farm to have the stones to make a big trade for Q...but when it's June or July and your team is right in the the thick of contention, or if you have a starter get hurt then Quintana for 3 1/2 seasons on a reasonable contract appears very attractive

 

Right I'm just counting the Pirates completely out. Plus they just cant give away prospects. It's just gonna take a team like the Dodgers or a team like that for a trade to actually happen. I'm not holding my breath. I still think he's here beyond next offseason.

[Chicago White Sox]

Right I'm just counting the Pirates completely out. Plus they just cant give away prospects. It's just gonna take a team like the Dodgers or a team like that for a trade to actually happen. I'm not holding my breath. I still think he's here beyond next offseason.

Someone will budge at the deadline IMO. Astros may well reconsider if one or more of their guys underperform. Yankees could be players if they are in the wild card mix come June/July. I wouldn't rule out the Cubs or Dodgers if they have a big injury. Should be plenty of teams interested before the deadline and all it takes is one to panic for us to get a quality return. I do agree with you that they need move Quintana this season though.

[southsider2k5]

Let's not go overboard, I don't think Houston's rotation is horrid.

 

Horrid? No. But it isn't one that will win you a playoff series either.

[GreenSox]

I dont get it some times. Why dont you guys look at the teams involved? Lets highlight the Pirates and Astros. Do you guys think they operate the same as the Nationals or the Red Sox? Look at the history of Dombrowski and Rizzo. It was the perfect storm for Sale. We may never get there with Q unfortunately and it's up to the Sox then if they want to drop value/ keep him. I'd rather keep him past next offseason if he's still here.

 

You have two teams trying to trade for Q who love their prospects. Maybe it'll change at the deadline. Beyond that the Astros can spend money. The Pirates are content with doing nothing.

Astros have traded a lot of prospects...that may be the problem.

Pirates don't trade prospects, I agree.

[SoxChinMusic]

"If they're going to include both Martes and Tucker, there needs to be something else coming back in addition to Quintana (a ptbnl rookie league prospect, Robertson with salary relief, Jennings, or Jones). Otherwise, I think Chicago will have a hard time beating a package that includes 1 of Martes/Tucker plus 3 fringe top 100 types (Fisher, Perez, Whitley, Paulino, Cameron, Moran, Reed, etc.)."

 

From an Astros fan^^^

 

I think this is somewhat indicative for the gap the exists between the Sox asking price and what is being offered. Quintana is not being traded for Martes or Tucker plus some second tier prospects. Martes AND Tucker would be a minimum starting point to headline a package, plus substantially more would have to be included.

 

Sox would likely accept a Martes + Tucker + Musgrove/Reed package

 

Anything less, why bother from the Sox point of view?

My 2 cents on the best possible Q trade. I’m not unveiling new info but had to post as the basis of my post is that I haven’t heard people on this board suggest my ask (below) by the Sox. I’ve been saving this rant all winter. The first to offer a package to Hahn’s rigid requirements will get Q. I’m sure Dombrowski told RH, “Give me the last shot at Sale before you make a deal” as DD knew all along he was willing to give the Sox what they would take for Sale. This being the case, once the Sox get close to a deal I’d believe Nightengale would put out the “2 minute warning” to all suitors. I’m sure RH doesn’t unnecessarily prefer to wait either in the event of a Q injury/possible performance decline. This is why teams fairly confident they will be contenders shouldn’t drag their feet as Q’s price will only increase as the trade deadline approaches and more importantly, the competition for Q will increase also. The Astros should be the team to blink first, it truly appears to be a win-win for both.

 

The Stros infield positions are set for years (by not trading Bregman). In the outfield, Springer and Reddick are there through 21. One OF spot is possible to open at some point w/ Aoki now there but could be filled internally sometime in the future with Tucker or Fisher and they also have Beltran who if can play a few games in the OF. With their rotation the weakest area they have and their position players in the minors blocked, they are not making the best possible decision to win the WS as their window is now.

 

As we all know, our primary need is position players. Not to discount future TOR arms but if all else is equal, we would prefer position players. IF Houston is not going to give up Bregman, I’d like to definitely receive Tucker and Fisher. Ideally, I’d like #3 Whitley instead of #1 Martes, especially if our good will/faith by not asking for Martes would allow us to receive also Stubbs. Whitley is farther away than Martes therefore fits better as within our next possible set of MLB pitchers after Lopez,Gio,Fullmer etc. . I also like Reed. We know our need is at catcher. But as the sharps also know, catcher is possibly the greatest commodity in baseball these days. There aren’t many solid minor league, let alone major league catchers playing, let alone in the minors. If Collins works out at catcher, great, but history is not on our side. IF we had Collins and Stubbs, we’d have better chips available. This is why I’d love Tucker, Fisher, Stubbs and either Whitley OR Reed. Possibly the X factor could be Jennings. As an ace in the hole, we can include Jennings as they had a need for a LHP. He has no value to us but possibly Houston. IF Houston would prefer Robertson (they may not want a RHP) we would have to eat some of DR’s contract to get a quality prospect anyway so perhaps eat some DR money to get the package I suggested (Tucker + Fisher) with either Whitley and Reed/ or Whitley or Reed…Some combo of the initial two PLUS…. MINIMUM Sox take; Tucker, Fisher, + ____….Thoughts or am I way off ?

 

[oldsox]

Fisher seems like a strike out machine. I like Laureano. We should scout both once seasons start.

Great post, BTW.

[Kalapse]

My 2 cents on the best possible Q trade. I’m not unveiling new info but had to post as the basis of my post is that I haven’t heard people on this board suggest my ask (below) by the Sox. I’ve been saving this rant all winter. The first to offer a package to Hahn’s rigid requirements will get Q. I’m sure Dombrowski told RH, “Give me the last shot at Sale before you make a deal” as DD knew all along he was willing to give the Sox what they would take for Sale. This being the case, once the Sox get close to a deal I’d believe Nightengale would put out the “2 minute warning” to all suitors. I’m sure RH doesn’t unnecessarily prefer to wait either in the event of a Q injury/possible performance decline. This is why teams fairly confident they will be contenders shouldn’t drag their feet as Q’s price will only increase as the trade deadline approaches and more importantly, the competition for Q will increase also. The Astros should be the team to blink first, it truly appears to be a win-win for both.

 

The Stros infield positions are set for years (by not trading Bregman). In the outfield, Springer and Reddick are there through 21. One OF spot is possible to open at some point w/ Aoki now there but could be filled internally sometime in the future with Tucker or Fisher and they also have Beltran who if can play a few games in the OF. With their rotation the weakest area they have and their position players in the minors blocked, they are not making the best possible decision to win the WS as their window is now.

 

As we all know, our primary need is position players. Not to discount future TOR arms but if all else is equal, we would prefer position players. IF Houston is not going to give up Bregman, I’d like to definitely receive Tucker and Fisher. Ideally, I’d like #3 Whitley instead of #1 Martes, especially if our good will/faith by not asking for Martes would allow us to receive also Stubbs. Whitley is farther away than Martes therefore fits better as within our next possible set of MLB pitchers after Lopez,Gio,Fullmer etc. . I also like Reed. We know our need is at catcher. But as the sharps also know, catcher is possibly the greatest commodity in baseball these days. There aren’t many solid minor league, let alone major league catchers playing, let alone in the minors. If Collins works out at catcher, great, but history is not on our side. IF we had Collins and Stubbs, we’d have better chips available. This is why I’d love Tucker, Fisher, Stubbs and either Whitley OR Reed. Possibly the X factor could be Jennings. As an ace in the hole, we can include Jennings as they had a need for a LHP. He has no value to us but possibly Houston. IF Houston would prefer Robertson (they may not want a RHP) we would have to eat some of DR’s contract to get a quality prospect anyway so perhaps eat some DR money to get the package I suggested (Tucker + Fisher) with either Whitley and Reed/ or Whitley or Reed…Some combo of the initial two PLUS…. MINIMUM Sox take; Tucker, Fisher, + ____….Thoughts or am I way off ?

This is a very, very good post.

[southsider2k5]

My 2 cents on the best possible Q trade. I'm not unveiling new info but had to post as the basis of my post is that I haven't heard people on this board suggest my ask (below) by the Sox. I've been saving this rant all winter. The first to offer a package to Hahn's rigid requirements will get Q. I'm sure Dombrowski told RH, "Give me the last shot at Sale before you make a deal" as DD knew all along he was willing to give the Sox what they would take for Sale. This being the case, once the Sox get close to a deal I'd believe Nightengale would put out the "2 minute warning" to all suitors. I'm sure RH doesn't unnecessarily prefer to wait either in the event of a Q injury/possible performance decline. This is why teams fairly confident they will be contenders shouldn't drag their feet as Q's price will only increase as the trade deadline approaches and more importantly, the competition for Q will increase also. The Astros should be the team to blink first, it truly appears to be a win-win for both.

 

The Stros infield positions are set for years (by not trading Bregman). In the outfield, Springer and Reddick are there through 21. One OF spot is possible to open at some point w/ Aoki now there but could be filled internally sometime in the future with Tucker or Fisher and they also have Beltran who if can play a few games in the OF. With their rotation the weakest area they have and their position players in the minors blocked, they are not making the best possible decision to win the WS as their window is now.

 

As we all know, our primary need is position players. Not to discount future TOR arms but if all else is equal, we would prefer position players. IF Houston is not going to give up Bregman, I'd like to definitely receive Tucker and Fisher. Ideally, I'd like #3 Whitley instead of #1 Martes, especially if our good will/faith by not asking for Martes would allow us to receive also Stubbs. Whitley is farther away than Martes therefore fits better as within our next possible set of MLB pitchers after Lopez,Gio,Fullmer etc. . I also like Reed. We know our need is at catcher. But as the sharps also know, catcher is possibly the greatest commodity in baseball these days. There aren't many solid minor league, let alone major league catchers playing, let alone in the minors. If Collins works out at catcher, great, but history is not on our side. IF we had Collins and Stubbs, we'd have better chips available. This is why I'd love Tucker, Fisher, Stubbs and either Whitley OR Reed. Possibly the X factor could be Jennings. As an ace in the hole, we can include Jennings as they had a need for a LHP. He has no value to us but possibly Houston. IF Houston would prefer Robertson (they may not want a RHP) we would have to eat some of DR's contract to get a quality prospect anyway so perhaps eat some DR money to get the package I suggested (Tucker + Fisher) with either Whitley and Reed/ or Whitley or Reed…Some combo of the initial two PLUS…. MINIMUM Sox take; Tucker, Fisher, + ____….Thoughts or am I way off ?

 

With the pitchers we already have in our system, I am OK building a deal without Martes, but then there has to be some quantity to make up for it.

[Chicago White Sox]

With the pitchers we already have in our system, I am OK building a deal without Martes, but then there has to be some quantity to make up for it.

Theoretically, I could do a deal without Martes, but then you're talking about a 5 for 1 that included Tucker, Reed, Perez, Whitley, & another OF (Fisher, Hernandez, or Laureano). No way in hell the Astros would do that though.

[FT35]

Still think there are a lot of GMs out there (most of them in smaller markets), who are looking at the 2 deals Hahn made with Sale and Eaton and they're puffed up saying "he's not doing that to me." The problem is THAT'S the price for a guy like Q--set by the large market teams (Boston/Washington). It's showing why baseball has a little problem with the rich getting richer. There's no deal w/Houston because in the eyes of the seller--they're cheap. They don't have what it takes to get it done. Both sides know it. Q will go to a large market team because they are the only teams who can pool the resources together to get a piece as valuable as him.

[striker]

I don't blame Luhnow for balking at the Sox asking price. If he waits until the trade deadline, his trade chips çould be more valuable. His rotation is good enough to get him to the trade deadline and reassess.

 

I also don't blame him for wanting to keep Martes. He and his staff are obviously skilled at talent evaluation.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Houston has had a team for 55 years without winning a World Series. They have a chance this year but are dicking around. Yea I hope they beg for Q at the deadline and Hahn strip mines their system or some other teams beat their best offer.

 

The Sox whooped your ass in 2005 and they will whoop your ass in the Q sweepstakes one way or another.

 

Have fun not winning the World Series but hey you will get to keep your precious prospects.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't blame Luhnow for balking at the Sox asking price. If he waits until the trade deadline, his trade chips çould be more valuable. His rotation is good enough to get him to the trade deadline and reassess.

 

I also don't blame him for wanting to keep Martes. He and his staff are obviously skilled at talent evaluation.

 

Also other random trade rentals could be available (no, not just the big name soon to be free agents).

[soxforlife05]

Houston has had a team for 55 years without winning a World Series. They have a chance this year but are dicking around. Yea I hope they beg for Q at the deadline and Hahn strip mines their system or some other teams beat their best offer.

 

The Sox whooped your ass in 2005 and they will whoop your ass in the Q sweepstakes one way or another.

 

Have fun not winning the World Series but hey you will get to keep your precious prospects.

 

Yeah Astros will easily come up short with their current staff. I don't think their prospects are any better than any other team can give that wants to field a worthy offer. I prefer the Yankees prospects anyway. Oh well let them learn the hard way.

 

Red Sox thought they could skate by at the deadline last year with protecting their top prospects and look what happened the following offseason. I say clean out the Astros system if they come back begging. Make them pay a premium.

Edited March 29, 2017 by soxforlife05

[Soha]

Houston has had a team for 55 years without winning a World Series. They have a chance this year but are dicking around. Yea I hope they beg for Q at the deadline and Hahn strip mines their system or some other teams beat their best offer.

 

The Sox whooped your ass in 2005 and they will whoop your ass in the Q sweepstakes one way or another.

 

Have fun not winning the World Series but hey you will get to keep your precious prospects.

 

I suspect the Astros believe they are the only serious contender for Q, and there's no point in bidding against themselves. The great news for us is, whether that's true or not - there should be plenty of suiters as the season plays out.

[hi8is]

[flavum]

 

[Jerksticks]

I suspect the Astros believe they are the only serious contender for Q, and there's no point in bidding against themselves. The great news for us is, whether that's true or not - there should be plenty of suiters as the season plays out.

I think this is true too. I also think it will play out early like the Peavy 1 deal that fell through. An injury or some realistic assessments by teams in mid-late May will kick up the chatter. After a leaked story or two.. welcome to the early trade winds. I'd guess Q's gone by June 1st. Mid June at the latest.

[Buehrlesque]

I dont get it some times. Why dont you guys look at the teams involved? Lets highlight the Pirates and Astros. Do you guys think they operate the same as the Nationals or the Red Sox? Look at the history of Dombrowski and Rizzo. It was the perfect storm for Sale. We may never get there with Q unfortunately and it's up to the Sox then if they want to drop value/ keep him. I'd rather keep him past next offseason if he's still here.

 

You have two teams trying to trade for Q who love their prospects. Maybe it'll change at the deadline. Beyond that the Astros can spend money. The Pirates are content with doing nothing.

 

 

The Pirates rely too heavily on their farm to have the stones to make a big trade for Q...but when it's June or July and your team is right in the the thick of contention, or if you have a starter get hurt then Quintana for 3 1/2 seasons on a reasonable contract appears very attractive

It seems to have become accepted fact that the Pirates shouldn't trade for Quintana because they need to hold on to their prospects as a small market team. I don't think this is such a sure thing. Of course, they shouldn't go for broke and empty the farm for one player — that makes sense. But the idea that they cannot trade Meadows doesn't stand up. There is literally no other way for a team like the Pirates to acquire a premium SP like Quintana. If they think Glasnow and/or Keller will turn into that type of elite starter and then will be willing to sign under-market contract extensions, that is one (longer and riskier) path. Otherwise, since signing a pitcher of that caliber in free agency is not an option, there is simply no other way.

 

And it could very easily be argued that it would be significantly more beneficial to their organization to allocate resources to four years of an elite and vastly underpaid starting pitcher than six years to a (possibly very good but unproven) OF. To replace Meadows, they could sign any Angel Pagan-type to be the team's third OF. Remember, OF is not a weakness on this team. They have two excellent and cheap starters out there already, and that's not even taking former-MVP McCutchen and his potential value (either on the field or in a trade) into account. It could be argued that it is actually [less risky for the Pirates to trade Meadows for Quintana than to hope Meadows and Glasnow/Keller pan out (and sign early extensions that themselves could end up under water).