Updated teams interested in Q

[yesterday333]

Who has some serious doubts about if he can actually be a catcher defensively.

Which is why we are targeting Severino from the nats. I do think we need a defense first catcher with some hitting potential, but with how few bats we have in our system I feel like the Astros have a lot of other player to target.

[Bob Sacamano]

Yes, but they also have Puig, Pederson, Ethier, Van Slyke, and possibly Thompson in line for playing time in the OF as well. They have been working him in the OF, but I don't know if he can get enough at bats to warrant having him on the ML roster.

 

They will probably buy-out Ethier after this year, Van Slyke has become so irrelevant and is always hurt. Thompson is basically the 5th guy on the bench for ability to play CF. Definitely room for him to get everyday at bats in LF if they were to role out an OF of Bellinger, Pederson/Thompson, Puig with Toles or Van Slyke on the bench.

Edited March 29, 2017 by soxfan2014

[SoxChinMusic]

It seems to have become accepted fact that the Pirates shouldn't trade for Quintana because they need to hold on to their prospects as a small market team. I don't think this is such a sure thing. Of course, they shouldn't go for broke and empty the farm for one player — that makes sense. But the idea that they cannot trade Meadows doesn't stand up. There is literally no other way for a team like the Pirates to acquire a premium SP like Quintana. If they think Glasnow and/or Keller will turn into that type of elite starter and then will be willing to sign under-market contract extensions, that is one (longer and riskier) path. Otherwise, since signing a pitcher of that caliber in free agency is not an option, there is simply no other way.

 

And it could very easily be argued that it would be significantly more beneficial to their organization to allocate resources to four years of an elite and vastly underpaid starting pitcher than six years to a (possibly very good but unproven) OF. To replace Meadows, they could sign any Angel Pagan-type to be the team's third OF. Remember, OF is not a weakness on this team. They have two excellent and cheap starters out there already, and that's not even taking former-MVP McCutchen and his potential value (either on the field or in a trade) into account. It could be argued that it is actually [less risky for the Pirates to trade Meadows for Quintana than to hope Meadows and Glasnow/Keller pan out (and sign early extensions that themselves could end up under water).

Great points, a proven, cost controlled TOR, LH pitcher is far more of a commodity than an unproven top level CF (even though a top line, LHB,CF prospect is a commodity) Pitt could fill in an OF position, a lower cost option similar to a Pagan type as they have two other studs in their OF.I like Meadows and IF he were the headliner, I would consider the Pirates. But I agree, Pitt should reconsider, if they haven't already. As Steveno89 mentioned, Pitt's M.O. is to not have the stones to deal the cost controlled prospects and I believe they will continue this trend. Any possible deal w/ Pitt would almost have to include Meadows, Keller and Newman for me. The balance of their prospects may be more hit and miss. I want NO part of Glasnow as his value will only drop as he cannot repeat his delivery and master his command therefore MAY be a late inning pen man. Values in trades come from SP prospects. As in my previous posts, Hou has a greater number of the specific position players we need and both teams have the ability to adjust various packages in order to able to complete a deal. More importantly, the Astros prospects are better risks also. Since Houston has not been competitive recently, they have had the ability to draft near the top of the draft boards for the best CONSENSUS prospects yearly. Maybe this would also prove more valuable as their prospects may have a greater probability of succeeding.

 

It appears as if most teams will wait on a possible Q deal, but I think the best possibility of a trade will happen with Houston. Luhnow is doing his job by waiting and hoping his staff works out. I say the odds are against it and he will definitely come back. The question if/when will he personally decide to engage in serious talks again w/ Hahn ? He can't wait too long or their season will be threatened. He can't wait too long or other teams will again get involved and the price will rise. This is why I liked KW's aggressiveness to win ASAP but didn't agree w/ his overall approach. Unfortunately we are paying KW's price now. If I'm Luhnow, my hand is on the trigger, prepared to close Hahn with whatever it takes. This is exactly what Dombrowski did to get Sale. He swooped in at the last minute as the info on the street was that the Bosox were not engaged w/ RH prior to the trade. If the Stros are 500 in mid May, 6 weeks prior to the deadline, Luhnow should make the deal. This way he'll beat other teams to the punch and also not get into a bidding war.

 

[southsider2k5]

Ehh. I think those doubts are overplayed a bit. I think he still has quite a bit of development left to do on the defensive side, but I think the moving off catcher thing had more to do with the fact that his bat is pretty close to ML ready, and everyone figured the Sox would bring him up before he was ready defensively.

 

Now, they have time. They don't have to rush him. The Sox will give him every chance to catch, and they have a history with making poor defensive catchers good ones (see Flowers).

 

I mean I get they have time. But the reports so far haven't been kind.

[Buehrlesque]

Great points, a proven, cost controlled TOR, LH pitcher is far more of a commodity than an unproven top level CF (even though a top line, LHB,CF prospect is a commodity) Pitt could fill in an OF position, a lower cost option similar to a Pagan type as they have two other studs in their OF.I like Meadows and IF he were the headliner, I would consider the Pirates. But I agree, Pitt should reconsider, if they haven't already. As Steveno89 mentioned, Pitt's M.O. is to not have the stones to deal the cost controlled prospects and I believe they will continue this trend. Any possible deal w/ Pitt would almost have to include Meadows, Keller and Newman for me. The balance of their prospects may be more hit and miss. I want NO part of Glasnow as his value will only drop as he cannot repeat his delivery and master his command therefore MAY be a late inning pen man. Values in trades come from SP prospects. As in my previous posts, Hou has a greater number of the specific position players we need and both teams have the ability to adjust various packages in order to able to complete a deal. More importantly, the Astros prospects are better risks also. Since Houston has not been competitive recently, they have had the ability to draft near the top of the draft boards for the best CONSENSUS prospects yearly. Maybe this would also prove more valuable as their prospects may have a greater probability of succeeding.

 

It appears as if most teams will wait on a possible Q deal, but I think the best possibility of a trade will happen with Houston. Luhnow is doing his job by waiting and hoping his staff works out. I say the odds are against it and he will definitely come back. The question if/when will he personally decide to engage in serious talks again w/ Hahn ? He can't wait too long or their season will be threatened. He can't wait too long or other teams will again get involved and the price will rise. This is why I liked KW's aggressiveness to win ASAP but didn't agree w/ his overall approach. Unfortunately we are paying KW's price now. If I'm Luhnow, my hand is on the trigger, prepared to close Hahn with whatever it takes. This is exactly what Dombrowski did to get Sale. He swooped in at the last minute as the info on the street was that the Bosox were not engaged w/ RH prior to the trade. If the Stros are 500 in mid May, 6 weeks prior to the deadline, Luhnow should make the deal. This way he'll beat other teams to the punch and also not get into a bidding war.

Agree with your thoughts about the Astros — there are significantly more combinations available to them that could work for a Quintana trade. With the Pirates — I think Meadows, Keller and Hayes is a fair package, a slight step down from your proposal.

 

[hi8is]

[witesoxfan]

 

People are having an enjoyable conversation. If you don't want to be apart of it, there are plenty of other threads on the board.

[hi8is]

People are having an enjoyable conversation. If you don't want to be apart of it, there are plenty of other threads on the board.

I'm enjoying adding valuable commentary after participating for the entire winter and spring seasons on this merry-go-round broken record wonderful exercise in repetitive speculation.

 

[southsider2k5]

I'm enjoying adding valuable commentary after participating for the entire winter and spring seasons on this merry-go-round broken record wonderful exercise in repetitive speculation.

 

lol, ok.

[steveno89]

lol, ok.

 

We are all just waiting for the Quintana hammer to fall so that we have something else to talk about

[hi8is]

lol, ok.

Value is relative and subjective

[SoxChinMusic]

Ehh. I think those doubts are overplayed a bit. I think he still has quite a bit of development left to do on the defensive side, but I think the moving off catcher thing had more to do with the fact that his bat is pretty close to ML ready, and everyone figured the Sox would bring him up before he was ready defensively.

 

Now, they have time. They don't have to rush him. The Sox will give him every chance to catch, and they have a history with making poor defensive catchers good ones (see Flowers).

I'd hope you're right that Collins can become a average D catcher, the odds may be against him (Jesus Montero,etc). But we've all seen it time and time again where a player whether in the minors or majors is playing a commodity type position, C, SS, CF among other positions, and is then moved from the commodity position to a position which more players can play than not. The primary reason Mauer received 25 mil/yr was that he was playing a commodity position. Of course the Twins had to sign him being a St Paul boy but if he was playing 1st back then he may have only received, 20 million, LOL. Point is, I'd prefer to gather the acorns as catchers as they are rare. Hopefully Collins AND Stubbs, if we were to get him, would only enhance our trade options or only then possibly move Collins off C. Stubbs would not be a deal breaker for me but I'm viewing him as a solid 4th player within a package. If we had to include Jennings or DR in the package to get Tucker, Fisher, Whitley (or Reed) and then Stubbs, I'm in. I simply do not to learn we're 100% banking on Collins to C and because his bat can play at the MLB level, we will later move him off C.. We're then back at square 1 and waiting another 5 years to develop a C.

[illinilaw08]

I mean I get they have time. But the reports so far haven't been kind.

 

It's really, really early. Much too soon to be formulating an opinion either way on whether Collins can stick defensively at catcher.

[SoxChinMusic]

Which is why we are targeting Severino from the nats. I do think we need a defense first catcher with some hitting potential, but with how few bats we have in our system I feel like the Astros have a lot of other player to target.

Sure, IF we can get Severino in some type of package from Rizzo for DR, great. But IF one of the multiple closer options Washington will attempt first works, the last thing Rizzo wants to do is trade with the Sox, let alone the risk to his rep, AGAIN. Time will tell about the Eaton trade but we all know Rizzo has been ripped for it, he'll definitely err on the side of caution with the Sox. Only if a gun to his head and he feels super confident, will he trade with the Sox.

 

[southsider2k5]

It's really, really early. Much too soon to be formulating an opinion either way on whether Collins can stick defensively at catcher.

 

Scouting at the time of the draft was fairly torn as to whether he would make it as a catcher. This isn't a new thing. I get the feeling that some are assuming that with time he can figure it out, but some guys never do. I mean look at Avi in RF. At one point he was being touted as a possible CF.

 

The bat is obviously his carrying tool, but Collins isn't reason enough yet to even think about ignoring other catchers.

[illinilaw08]

Scouting at the time of the draft was fairly torn as to whether he would make it as a catcher. This isn't a new thing. I get the feeling that some are assuming that with time he can figure it out, but some guys never do. I mean look at Avi in RF. At one point he was being touted as a possible CF.

 

The bat is obviously his carrying tool, but Collins isn't reason enough yet to even think about ignoring other catchers.

 

Yeah, no disagreement that it's too early to be thinking about ignoring other catchers. In fact, I really like the idea of adding Severino because, even under the best circumstances, Collins as MLB catcher is a couple years off.

 

But scouting is going to remain torn on whether Collins can stick as a catcher for awhile. I'm just putting absolutely no weight on reports on his catching from his first spring training. If the reports still have him as a disaster next spring, I'll worry about whether Collins can stick behind the plate or not.

[flavum]

If Hostetler really would have taken Collins 1-1, then he must really think he can catch. Time will tell.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If Hostetler really would have taken Collins 1-1, then he must really think he can catch. Time will tell.

I think only circumstances would prevent him from sticking at catcher such as another catcher who develops in the same time frame as Collins . The Sox like him back there so far .He receives the ball softly doesn't stab at it. Throws well enough. Game calling very hard to tell at this juncture . Looked nimble back there.

 

I'm on board with him sticking at catcher from what I have seen and heard/read.

[steveno89]

I think only circumstances would prevent him from sticking at catcher such as another catcher who develops in the same time frame as Collins . The Sox like him back there so far .He receives the ball softly doesn't stab at it. Throws well enough. Game calling very hard to tell at this juncture . Looked nimble back there.

 

I'm on board with him sticking at catcher from what I have seen and heard/read.

 

https://wahoosonfirst.com/2017/03/29/clevel...-jose-quintana/

 

Wow^^^

 

This article made me laugh pretty hard for obvious reasons

[Whisox05]

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/sl-cardina...eeper-quintana/

 

Cardinals could be sleepers for Quintana according to jon heyman

[steveno89]

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/sl-cardina...eeper-quintana/

 

Cardinals could be sleepers for Quintana according to jon heyman

 

Meh

 

I'm not thrilled with what the Cardinals farm system could offer

[shipps]

Meh

 

I'm not thrilled with what the Cardinals farm system could offer

 

Many arent but I would welcome them into the discussion. The more teams interested the better the return will be.

[NCsoxfan]

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/sl-cardina...eeper-quintana/

 

Cardinals could be sleepers for Quintana according to jon heyman

 

A Cardinals offer for Q reminds me of when a fantasy football team offers you 4 bench guys for your top RB (doesn't matter how much quantity they offer)

[steveno89]

A Cardinals offer for Q reminds me of when a fantasy football team offers you 4 bench guys for your top RB (doesn't matter how much quantity they offer)

 

I can't come up with a trade package coming from St Louis that makes much sense for the White Sox, or that could not be beaten by other clubs

 

 

[Quin]

A Cardinals offer for Q reminds me of when a fantasy football team offers you 4 bench guys for your top RB (doesn't matter how much quantity they offer)

 

Reyes (injury gamble), Kelly, Perez and Weaver wouldn't be something to just dismiss.