Bob Sacamano Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ May 25, 2017 -> 11:00 AM) Did you guys see who matches up on Monday afternoon? David Price is starting Monday now. Activated from the dl. Edited May 25, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ May 25, 2017 -> 12:45 PM) Didn't the Sox reject because they wanted Musgrove? I would easily subtract Martes out of that deal if it meant 2 other bats came back. QUOTE (iamshack @ May 25, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) I thought we were hearing that the Stros wanted to include neither Tucker or Martes, however? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 01:44 PM) That's what I remembered. The package was awful. Maybe Fisher, Paulino, and Reed as headliners? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 01:46 PM) Thinking back I want to say that Tampa turned down that offer from Houston for Archer. (Tucker, Martes, etc) These posts remind me of just how many rumors were flying around over the winter. It was rumored the Pirates offered three prospects and I think two of them were Glasgow and Newman but don't know the third piece. This brings me back to arm chair general managing, we don't know exactly what was offered so we don't know if the Sox should have traded Q last winter. Coulda woulda shoulda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Counterpoint - whatever they would have gotten then, it will be less now, and even less in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 QUOTE (daggins @ May 25, 2017 -> 06:09 PM) Counterpoint - whatever they would have gotten then, it will be less now, and even less in the offseason. Maybe. And I know people will say just keep him then but to me that's pointless. If the best move is to keep him, extend him. Although, like i said earlier, we are 2 months away from the deadline and I think his value will be where it was at going into the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 QUOTE (daggins @ May 25, 2017 -> 06:09 PM) Counterpoint - whatever they would have gotten then, it will be less now, and even less in the offseason. Counter-Counter point. The Red Sox weren't offering Moncada for Sale at the deadline, and did in the off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 06:50 PM) Counter-Counter point. The Red Sox weren't offering Moncada for Sale at the deadline, and did in the off season. Possibly because of all those strikeouts in September. (Moncada, not Sale) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 07:50 PM) Counter-Counter point. The Red Sox weren't offering Moncada for Sale at the deadline, and did in the off season. Was Sale even available at the deadline? I thought JR didn't want him gone until the offseason. I know Quintana was discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ May 25, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) Possibly because of all those strikeouts in September. (Moncada, not Sale) Yeah, a team would make that big of a decision based off 19 at-bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ May 25, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) These posts remind me of just how many rumors were flying around over the winter. It was rumored the Pirates offered three prospects and I think two of them were Glasgow and Newman but don't know the third piece. This brings me back to arm chair general managing, we don't know exactly what was offered so we don't know if the Sox should have traded Q last winter. Coulda woulda shoulda. Why did we turn it down, the GDP for that city alone with keep the White Sox system stocked with Latin American prospects for a decade? There was also a lot of debate whether the Pirates 1) would give up Bell, and 2) whether he was going to hit for enough power to justify 1B/corner OF spot. So far, it seems he's doing just fine in that regard. Glasnow is a mess, though. Haven't been following Newman or even Meadows (got off to a god-awful start) for that matter. Edited May 26, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 (edited) QUINTANA: LOCATION CULPRIT FOR BIG INNINGS THIS SEASON "There were a few mistakes we had, but they just took advantage of us," White Sox catcher Kevan Smith said. "In the first three, we took advantage of their aggressiveness, we were down in the zone. And kind of a domino effect a little after that, one after another. Maybe not pitching in the best situations, getting in holes a little." "The ball ran to the middle a couple of times," Quintana said. "That's the reason they hit me hard: my location sometimes, especially in the stretch. I keep working on that. I'm doing better. It was a tough game for me. Bad day, and you know, look ahead and keep going." Quintana's mechanics frequently have been described as nearly flawless, allowing him to hit all quadrants of the zone consistently. Jose talked postgame about feeling good in that area, throwing the ball better than he did at the start of the season. Remember, Quintana is also coming off a one-hitter thrown over eight innings at Seattle in his last start. These struggles remain surprising for one of the game's most consistent starters. With another 20-plus starts still on the docket, they certainly don't define him. "Certain pitches do stuff maybe he doesn't want them to do," (catcher Kevan) Smith said. "We're trying to throw outside sinkers to righties, and they're cutting back over. Those are all things for him to iron out with [White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper], and I'm there for him. We all hate to see him struggle." "He's a hard worker and we all know how talented he is and we're all confident in him," said White Sox first baseman Jose Abreu through interpreter Billy Russo. "It's a matter of one thing for him to clean it up and to be that Jose Quintana that we know." http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/232...-hone-location/ Edited May 26, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ May 25, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) Possibly because of all those strikeouts in September. (Moncada, not Sale) My bet would be external pressure from another playoff bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 25, 2017 -> 08:10 PM) Was Sale even available at the deadline? I thought JR didn't want him gone until the offseason. I know Quintana was discussed. The Sox put a very high price on him, but didn't say he wasn't available. You argue that the price effectively did that, but that is up to the eye of the beholder right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Indians have blown up Sonny Gray's ERA into the mid 4's from 3.05 entering tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Hahn isn't going to trade Q this deadline unless a team is stupid enough. He isn't worth it this season. Hopefully he relaxes after the deadline and gets back to his usual self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Yeah, you can stick a fork in that idea. So they either trade him or pray to God Rodon's okay and do everything possible to compete in 2019 and 2020 with both of those guys anchoring the rotation along with the youngsters. For some reason, Q's value will never be apparent to anyone outside of the White Sox fan community and some "sabes dudes in mom's basement." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Whatever its fine. Extend a few more years on the back end of his deal if you can this year and we are good to go for the next window. He'll turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 If he can get back to his old self he still provides good value to the tail end of our rebuild. With Robert being signed and Robertson having a tremendous first half (likely will get a good prospect at least), there is less pressure to deal Quintana imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (reiks12 @ May 30, 2017 -> 09:17 PM) If he can get back to his old self he still provides good value to the tail end of our rebuild. With Robert being signed and Robertson having a tremendous first half (likely will get a good prospect at least), there is less pressure to deal Quintana imo. In fairness, he must have been affected by the Sale return tonight. But a Boston Globe writer said in the last month, his fastball is down 1-1.5 MPH over his norm. 92-93 to 91-92. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 It's obvious Q will be a White Sox the rest of the season. Nobody's going to give up anything of note for him. The question is ... why does he reek? He had that one game where he was the old Q, but aside from that he's been Humber-like. So let's settle down and forget about trading him. It ain't gonna happen so let's hope for the best and hope he becomes Q again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 FYI, some Fangraphs bros chattin' bout Q 9:42 Phil Sheridan: Is Quintana hurt? How do you explain this season for him? 9:43 Paul Swydan: He’s had a few bad starts, and a bunch of good ones. I think he’s probably fine. 9:43 Jeff Zimmerman: Everything seems inline but his ERA. 9:43 Rick Hahn: Q got tattooed again tonight. Does this totally crush his mid-year trade value? 9:44 Paul Swydan: If teams are scared off because Deven Marrero lucked into a couple of homers against them, they probably need new talent evaluators. 9:44 Jeff Zimmerman: No, but he wasn’t going to bring back too much talent anyway I'm guessing when JZ says 'too much talent' he means a Chris Sale return. If he falls back into line, he could still get a Cole Hamels return, which would be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (daggins @ May 30, 2017 -> 10:55 PM) FYI, some Fangraphs bros chattin' bout Q 9:42 Phil Sheridan: Is Quintana hurt? How do you explain this season for him? 9:43 Paul Swydan: He’s had a few bad starts, and a bunch of good ones. I think he’s probably fine. 9:43 Jeff Zimmerman: Everything seems inline but his ERA. 9:43 Rick Hahn: Q got tattooed again tonight. Does this totally crush his mid-year trade value? 9:44 Paul Swydan: If teams are scared off because Deven Marrero lucked into a couple of homers against them, they probably need new talent evaluators. 9:44 Jeff Zimmerman: No, but he wasn’t going to bring back too much talent anyway I'm guessing when JZ says 'too much talent' he means a Chris Sale return. If he falls back into line, he could still get a Cole Hamels return, which would be ok. Q was never going to bring a Chris Sale return. Q's value was at its all time high this offseason. Hahn took a gamble that everything would line up for a nice return in July. So far that gamble is looking like a giant fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Yea, night was the nail in the trade him this year coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 The "positive spin" with Q for now: 1) White Sox don't know what will happen with Rodon, so he gives the rotation more certainty going forward 2) Still fits into the 2019/20 window, assuming everything falls into place the next 1 1/2 seasons. 3) More valuable to Sox than other teams, salary fits in no matter rebuilding org or not. 4) Good/great teammate and mentor for younger players coming into organization, has longest current tenure as a Sox player. 5) Other than Kopech and Hansen looking dominant (for now), there is a tremendous amount of uncertainty about Giolito/Fulmer/Lopez right now. Just finding one Q type out of that last group of 3 might prove to be elusive. So why sell him off for 60-75 cents on the dollar rather than full/perceived value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 The Sox have 3 legit position player prospects right now (Moncada, Robert, Collins). I'm pretty sure that Hahn and company were planning to flip Q and add a couple more top 100 prospects to that list. Not trading Q this year is a giant step backwards in the rebuild in my opinion. How are the Sox gonna build up the farm if they don't trade one of their most valuable chips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Simple, they're going to have to trade Robertson, Swarzak, Holland, Frazier, Cabrera and Nate Jones (if healthy). Rule 5 Draft again Free agents, probably not this offseason, but after 2018...depending upon where the rebuild is. There's always the possibility of a Japanese/Korean player as well. Finally, they're getting positive contributions out of Avi Garcia, Davidson, Leury Garcia and Yolmer Sanchez. Before the season began, Saladino was the ONLY one of those five who looked like he could be a part of the future. You also have Nicky Delmonico, Engel, Danny Hayes, Willy Garcia, Liriano...the "net positive" of all the players listed in this paragraph is pretty high, based on preseason expectations. But yeah, Collins and Moncada both have to be studs. Robert needs to be a 3+ WAR guy. You forgot Basabe at Winston-Salem...Call and Fisher, as well. And you're leaving out the 1st/2nd/3rd round draft picks in 2017/18/19. Finally, you have a Top 3 organization in MILB...some of that pitching can potentially be a valuable trade piece for the Sox. Edited May 31, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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