Updated teams interested in Q

[witesoxfan]

The Sox have 3 legit position player prospects right now (Moncada, Robert, Collins). I'm pretty sure that Hahn and company were planning to flip Q and add a couple more top 100 prospects to that list.

 

Not trading Q this year is a giant step backwards in the rebuild in my opinion. How are the Sox gonna build up the farm if they don't trade one of their most valuable chips?

 

Oh good god, step back from the ledge.

[Bob Sacamano]

Still think we can net Frazier ++ for Q from the Yankees.

 

Better start pitching better.

 

I do wonder if Frazier is expendable with Ellsbury in either LF or CF beyond this year (under contract for 4 more years) and then Judge in a corner spot.

[SCCWS]

Keeping Quintana doesn't make any sense. They need the prospects that they will ultimately get in return for him. People keep talking about 2019 but the Sox don't have many long-term answers as far as position players go. Where are those guys coming from? They are banking on Moncada, Anderson, Robert, and Collins. What if a couple of them bust though? They need to keep adding. Quintana will need a new contract by the time the Sox are good again so I just don't think keeping him makes any sense and I also don't know how this team is playoff ready in 2019.

 

Agree that the position player inventory is low. But every rebuilding team must supplement their roster with free agents as well. Maybe the trading of guys like Jones, Robertson, Abreu etc will add more young talent to fill the void if Q can't be moved for enough talent.

 

[peavy44]

Agree that the position player inventory is low. But every rebuilding team must supplement their roster with free agents as well. Maybe the trading of guys like Jones, Robertson, Abreu etc will add more young talent to fill the void if Q can't be moved for enough talent.

 

I don't think Abreu will ever be traded you will ruin the Cuban connection and breaking promises.

[Chicago White Sox]

Some of you guys are really frustrating.

 

You aren't really suggesting a realistic course of action moving forward. Just gloating that impatience should have been rewarded now that Quintana has underperformed.

 

I think Hahn deserves the benefit of the doubt, considering he actually had all the information, while the rest of us were the beneficiaries of leaks and other forms of inaccurate information, and that while by no means optimal, our current position is the position we find ourselves in.

 

Rather than continue to gloat, what is the best path forward?

Again, you're assuming that being patient was the right approach, but failing to acknowledge all the risk that came with holding Quintana into the season. This isn't about gloating, it's about questioning Hahn's decision & valuation approach.

 

As for what to do, now we have to hold Quintana until the offseason and possibility into next season. There really isn't much of a choice. Hopefully he rebounds before the end of the season and makes his overall 2017 numbers look reasonable.

[iamshack]

Again, you're assuming that being patient was the right approach, but failing to acknowledge all the risk that came with holding Quintana into the season. This isn't about gloating, it's about questioning Hahn's decision & valuation approach.

 

As for what to do, now we have to hold Quintana until the offseason and possibility into next season. There really isn't much of a choice. Hopefully he rebounds before the end of the season and makes his overall 2017 numbers look reasonable.

First of all, I was one of the largest proponents of acknowledging that risk, which is why I kept posting about the price increasing come the deadline as compared to this offseason.

 

Secondly, some of the posters literally began their posts with "I hate that I was right about this." Umm, gloating.

 

Irregardless of just how likely this kind of a dropoff was, I don't think it was anywhere near justifying taking a package that was significantly substandard just because you didn't want to carry the risk.

[Baron]

First of all, I was one of the largest proponents of acknowledging that risk, which is why I kept posting about the price increasing come the deadline as compared to this offseason.

 

Secondly, some of the posters literally began their posts with "I hate that I was right about this." Umm, gloating.

 

Irregardless of just how likely this kind of a dropoff was, I don't think it was anywhere near justifying taking a package that was significantly substandard just because you didn't want to carry the risk.

 

As far as I'm aware I'm only one poster. Not "some".

 

Also can we stick to one criteria please? Apparently we're not allowed to think that Hahn is asking for too much. But for some reason your allowed to automatically assume the package was substandard.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Baron

[southsider2k5]

First of all, I was one of the largest proponents of acknowledging that risk, which is why I kept posting about the price increasing come the deadline as compared to this offseason.

 

Secondly, some of the posters literally began their posts with "I hate that I was right about this." Umm, gloating.

 

Irregardless of just how likely this kind of a dropoff was, I don't think it was anywhere near justifying taking a package that was significantly substandard just because you didn't want to carry the risk.

 

Especially since we saw a huge payoff by holding on to Chris Sale until the off season.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Q will be on the Sox until the 2018 trade deadline.

[Panerista]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Q will be on the Sox until the 2018 trade deadline.

Agreed. I think the Sox will likely adjust Q's price as the contract progresses. I do not believe the White Sox will move him until at least the off season if not next trade deadline.

[ptatc]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Q will be on the Sox until the 2018 trade deadline.

They should hold onto him until they get a deal that is worth his value. The way it's going you are probably correct, unless he has a stellar second half.

[Bob Sacamano]

They should hold onto him until they get a deal that is worth his value. The way it's going you are probably correct, unless he has a stellar second half.

 

His value will be less at 2018 deadline than the value he was worth this past off-season (2.5 years vs 4 years) so if he is pitching good, maybe a team could meet the adjusted price.

Edited May 31, 2017 by soxfan2014

[iamshack]

His value will be less at 2018 deadline than the value he was worth this past off-season (2.5 years vs 4 years) so if he is pitching good, maybe a team could meet the adjusted price.

I honestly don't think the market really accurately values that kind of difference in control at this point.

 

It seems as though anything over 2 years sort of falls into a bucket of "controllable," while anything less falls into "rental."

[soxforlife05]

If they got a good offer he would've been gone. The end. What is up with the hysterics.

[bmags]

Especially since we saw a huge payoff by holding on to Chris Sale until the off season.

 

Did we though?

[southsider2k5]

Did we though?

 

By all reports Yoan Moncada was not available at the trade deadline.

[bmags]

By all reports Yoan Moncada was not available at the trade deadline.

 

I have not seen a report that said that. If anything what I saw was that Hahn went into the offseason saying he'd come down in price and that we weren't serious in July.

 

We had a deal around Kopech/Moncada and were haggling over Devers.

[ChiSox59]

I honestly don't think the market really accurately values that kind of difference in control at this point.

 

It seems as though anything over 2 years sort of falls into a bucket of "controllable," while anything less falls into "rental."

 

 

Mmmmhmmm.

[Buehrlesque]

I have not seen a report that said that. If anything what I saw was that Hahn went into the offseason saying he'd come down in price and that we weren't serious in July.

 

We had a deal around Kopech/Moncada and were haggling over Devers.

Yeah, I thought the Sox were asking for Betts+ in July, essentially not being realistic at all. Purely my speculation, but if Hahn had been serious, he could have gotten the same Moncada/Kopech deal in July.

[Chicago White Sox]

First of all, I was one of the largest proponents of acknowledging that risk, which is why I kept posting about the price increasing come the deadline as compared to this offseason.

 

Secondly, some of the posters literally began their posts with "I hate that I was right about this." Umm, gloating.

 

Irregardless of just how likely this kind of a dropoff was, I don't think it was anywhere near justifying taking a package that was significantly substandard just because you didn't want to carry the risk.

Let me clarify, I personally wasn't trying to gloat and quite frankly it's too early for anyone to gloat. We have wait and see what kind of return he ultimately delivers before we officially say being patient was the right call or not. Right now it's not looking good, but that can easily change over time.

 

I'll end my arguing after this one last point, but ultimately valuation is subjective. Every GM can look at an individual player and come up with a different value. However, in baseball terms, fair value is essentially what your peers would pay for your asset in an unconstrained market. So in this case, if Hahn's asking price was so far off from what all other GMs felt was fair, especially given the favorable market conditions, it screams to me that Rick did not value Quintana appropriately. Sure, it's possible all the other GMs are undervaluing Jose but is that likely? Not in this day & age where GMs are constantly looking for undervalued assets. Again, I know this is all speculation, but it's rooted in common sense. I have no reason to believe that Rick Hahn is the only guy who truly knows Jose Quintana's worth, so I can't automatically give him the benefit of the doubt that offers weren't sufficient. As I've said numerous times, if you can't get fair value in perfect market conditions, maybe you need to reassess what fair value actually is.

[bmags]

I honestly don't think the market really accurately values that kind of difference in control at this point.

 

It seems as though anything over 2 years sort of falls into a bucket of "controllable," while anything less falls into "rental."

 

Totally agree with this.

[southsider2k5]

I have not seen a report that said that. If anything what I saw was that Hahn went into the offseason saying he'd come down in price and that we weren't serious in July.

 

We had a deal around Kopech/Moncada and were haggling over Devers.

 

Reports from around the time were that Moncada would not have been in deal, instead it centered around Benitendi and Rodriguez.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

As far as I'm aware I'm only one poster. Not "some".

 

Also can we stick to one criteria please? Apparently we're not allowed to think that Hahn is asking for too much. But for some reason your allowed to automatically assume the package was substandard.

 

 

Bingo on the second part of this post. I posted a comment earlier with links to articles where Hahn was quoted as asking for 2-3 elite prospects in exchange for Q. We know he was asking for a Sale like haul for Q. We don't have inside information on what other teams were offering but we have a pretty good idea on what Hahn was asking for.

 

Good move Mr. Hahn. Your million dollar house is now worth 500K.

[bmags]

Reports from around the time were that Moncada would not have been in deal, instead it centered around Benitendi and Rodriguez.

 

I remember something like that for Q but the Boston Globe had a great story breaking down the talks with Dombrowski and Hahn providing quotes.

 

Two stuck out:

In talks with the White Sox, Dombrowski made a point of leaving the door ajar. Past requests by Chicago for major leaguers in return for Sale wouldn’t work, but if Chicago changed course and would consider a package of prospects, it should call."

 

At about 6 p.m., as Dombrowski was getting home from a day in his office at Fenway, he received a call from White Sox GM Rick Hahn, who made clear his intentions: Sale likely would be dealt during the Winter Meetings, and Hahn was contemplating different scenarios than in the past.

 

Whereas the White Sox had asked the Red Sox for big league talent when the sides talked after the 2015 season and during the 2016 season — according to multiple major league sources, in past talks the White Sox wanted young big leaguers from the Red Sox’ All-Star core — Hahn said Chicago would discuss a different package this time with Boston.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2...LLLP/story.html

[heirdog]

I get the panic but some people need to relax. Trade value is a macro view not a small snapshot. Scouts can see that sandwiched between some rough outings were some stellar normal Q like quality performances. The only thing other teams may be considering today vs. 2 weeks ago are things like "is he tipping pitches?" "Is he compensating for an injury?" "How do all the other peripherals look" and "can we get him back to his normal consistent self?"

 

Trade value also hinges on the return and we can assess our risk that way. Whereas, off season Q couldn't get you an "untouchable", does a struggling Swanson or Trea Turner now make them available? Doubt it...so a struggling Q shouldn't lose his value significantly either.