Sockin Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Heyman seems to believe that the Dodgers are going to be in on Quintana. He says the Sox have been monitoring their prospects. https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/inside-bas...prise-quintana/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 QUOTE (Sockin @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 02:47 PM) Heyman seems to believe that the Dodgers are going to be in on Quintana. He says the Sox have been monitoring their prospects. https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/inside-bas...prise-quintana/ Ideal situation if you ask me. Even if he doesnt go there they are loaded enough to make others believe they need to give up more. We just need Q to string together a few good outings. It really will only take that much to get people to stop questioning his value. People have a short memory in baseball, including the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 QUOTE (Sockin @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 02:47 PM) Heyman seems to believe that the Dodgers are going to be in on Quintana. He says the Sox have been monitoring their prospects. https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/inside-bas...prise-quintana/ Verdugo is having a nice season is AAA so far: .314/.390/.433 with more walks than strikeouts (PCL caveats apply). He could be a nice starting point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 08:14 PM) Verdugo is having a nice season is AAA so far: .314/.390/.433 with more walks than strikeouts (PCL caveats apply). He could be a nice starting point... And Calhoun and Buehler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Verdugo + Calhoun + ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 03:16 PM) And Calhoun and Buehler QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 03:20 PM) Verdugo + Calhoun + ? Just what I was thinking. I liked Buehrler back before he had TJS. Calhoun can hit, but you have to wonder where he'd play with the Sox. Full-time DH? Is he as bad defensively in LF as he is at 2B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 03:28 PM) Just what I was thinking. I liked Buehrler back before he had TJS. Calhoun can hit, but you have to wonder where he'd play with the Sox. Full-time DH? Is he as bad defensively in LF as he is at 2B? I don't know much about Calhoun's defense ( I should read up on that) other than its not good. If Calhoun's power is legit then I would be fine with having the shortest DH in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Calhoun' defense is rumored to be non-existent. I do think we are jumping the gun big time on this, as Heyman also made it seem like there have been no talks at all between the teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Sonny Gray dealing so far against Yankees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 09:47 PM) Meh...all this doom and gloom about Quintana. Honestly...look at his starts tho. It's not like he's getting stellar run support by any means. He's given up more than 4 runs twice...in back to back crappy outings against Boston and AZ (and AZ rakes at home...best record in baseball at home). Besides that: 4 runs- 1 time (L) 3 runs- 3 times 2-(L) 1-No decision 2 runs- 1 time (W) 1 run- 2 times Both No decisions 0 runs- 1 time (W) Correct me if I missed something here. So honestly the guy has only had 2 really bad outings this year. Given his track record...durability...and affordability as well as control...you'd be nuts to think teams won't be calling Hahn. Let's not let this 2-8 record you...he hasn't pitched that awful bad. You don't settle. I guess the eye test doesn't matter at all. He's looked very mediocre. Couple the eye test with traditional stats like ERA and you get a very average pitcher right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 08:35 PM) Sonny Gray dealing so far against Yankees... 8 hits in 5.1 innings....nothing spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 09:41 PM) I guess the eye test doesn't matter at all. He's looked very mediocre. Couple the eye test with traditional stats like ERA and you get a very average pitcher right now. I think the eye test is in focusing on the big picture and viewing a pitcher like Quintana in the same way GM's do and not fans. Could Jeff Samardzija have pitched any worse than he did for us? It still didn't keep a team from investing $90 million dollars in him. Now think about that for a second and let it soak in...90...MILLION...dollars for a guy who was coming off an entire season where he posted a 5.13 ERA and really failed to demonstrate that he could get MLB hitters out with any consistency. He got the contract because GMs realize that pitchers are human also. Shark HAD demonstrated that he could get MLB hitters out with consistency--just not that year with us. GMs look at the numbers and ask "why?" Their people offer suggestions--shying away from a typical out pitch, afraid of the strike zone, maybe some tipping, maybe it's poor defense, maybe a technique glitch in the delivery. Things happen to good pitchers. They all post a mediocre season or 2 (unless you're Clayton Kershaw--which no one is claiming Q to be). Look at Verlander--working on his 3rd season of an ERA over 4.50 (that's mediocre). You think GMs weight the bad season with him--or the fact that he's a 6-time All-Star? The talent was ALWAYS there. Quintana has never posted a season with an ERA over 3.76. Is he struggling!? Absolutely! But no GM is going to look at Jose Quintana and say--well...he WAS one of the best pitchers in the league for the last 5 YEARS...but now he's not. What they are going to do is try to buy low because they know these things happen. Rick Hahn will field many ridiculous offers for Q now. And he will simply decline--because we all know that Quintana will right his ship. How tough is it to perform at your highest level for a team who is picked to potentially finish dead last in MLB--with your name floating around on a daily basis just waiting for your phone to ring telling you that you're relocating. All Q's slump means is that now might not be the best time to trade him...and honestly I don't think that has any impact on the organization and their plans moving forward. The rebuild is still on--it's not being "hurt" by Quintana's poor performance, it's not dependent on him being dominant now. There will be Gleyber Torres-type prospects available whenever the time is to move him on. The flip on Quintana will happen at the right time or it won't happen at all. There are other moves that have happened or will happen in the meantime that will improve this team (Robert signing, getting the draft picks signed, trying to move Robertson, etc.). This isn't even a spin of optimism or a sales pitch on Quintana...it's just the way it is. Fans might not see that shinny new prospect they all want at this moment--but there will be a top 100 list next year with different names on it--several will be good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) Good post...but believe (for now) teams will shy away from offering super elite prospects like Torres...instead trying to acquire him for 3-4 players with two being MILB top 35-75. Edited June 16, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I still like the idea of doing a deal with Houston. They are the best talent evaluating and development org. in baseball (by a good margin) imo. Their GM is generally willing to trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Best trade match: Jose Quintana, Chicago White Sox 5.30 ERA | 4.17 FIP | .259/.330/.441 | 22.8% SO rate | 9.2% BB rate So this gets us to the pitcher linked to the Astros since last offseason. From 2013-16, Quintana pitched 200 innings each season and compiled a 3.35 ERA. If he wasn’t quite an ace, his durability and consistency made him one of the best starters in the league. With a team-friendly contract that goes through 2020 for a total of $30.85 million over the final three seasons, everybody thought the White Sox would trade him over the winter. They didn’t and it might have been a mistake. Quintana has allowed five or more runs in four of his 13 starts, with some minor spikes in walk rate and home-run rate compared to his career norms. His ERA looks bad, but the FIP is a respectable 4.17, and while the extra walks aren’t helping, one reason for his high ERA is a low strand rate of 66.7 percent, significantly below his 78 percent rate of the previous two seasons. The more you dig into the numbers, Quintana is mostly the same pitcher. His velocity is fine, his strikeout rate is actually a career high, his “well-hit average” is lower than his career rate. I see a pitcher who is better than his ERA and has probably pitched in some bad luck. Vargas has been better so far, but I’d probably take Quintana the rest of season. Of course, the White Sox would love to see him reel off three or four good starts in a row to convince teams they could get the same package they might have wanted over the winter. What do they need? Everything! The hauls for Chris Sale and Adam Eaton brought in pitching prospects Michael Kopech, Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning, with Dunning -- the least heralded of the four -- having the best season. In other words, you can never have too many pitching prospects. That’s why the White Sox should ask for Francis Martes, Houston’s top prospect. He’s up now filling in for the depleted rotation even though he was struggling in Triple-A. Still, he’s 21, and throws mid-90s with a swing-and-miss curveball. The White Sox will also ask for outfielder Kyle Tucker, Houston’s first-round pick in 2015, but the Astros aren’t trading him. Would they part with Derek Fisher, who was tearing up Triple-A and homered in his big league debut Wednesday? I like Fisher a lot and he has the ability to help them this season. If he can handle left field, they could slide Marwin Gonzalez into some first base and designated hitter to help the offense even more. So let’s try a different direction: The Astros also include pitcher Franklin Perez, a 19-year-old Venezuelan with an advanced, four-pitch repertoire, third baseman J.D. Davis, who is hitting .286 with 16 home runs at Double-A, but has some swing-and-miss in his game, and outfielder Teoscar Hernandez, a potential starting outfielder who reached the big leagues last season but is blocked in Houston. What do you think? Who says no? from David Schoenfield link So to be clear, Francis Martes + Franklin Perez + Teoscar Hernandez? why move him if that is the package? The farm provided they sign their first 15 picks is loaded with pitching and still needs more hitting. If Q is going to get moved to the Astros, Yankees or Dodgers for Hahn to say yes this season it would likely have to be for a package like this, he still has 8 starts including tonight to turn it around. Astros: Kyle Tucker + Franklin Perez + Yordan Alvarez or Jonathan Arauz Yankees: Blake Rutherford + Chance Adams + Dustin Fowler or Miguel Andujar Dodgers: Alex Verdugo + Walker Buehler + Yusniel Diaz or Keibert Ruiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 09:27 AM) from David Schoenfield link So to be clear, Francis Martes + Franklin Perez + Teoscar Hernandez? why move him if that is the package? The farm provided they sign their first 15 picks is loaded with pitching and still needs more hitting. If Q is going to get moved to the Astros, Yankees or Dodgers for Hahn to say yes this season it would likely have to be for a package like this, he still has 8 starts including tonight to turn it around. Astros: Kyle Tucker + Franklin Perez + Yordan Alvarez or Jonathan Arauz Yankees: Blake Rutherford + Chance Adams + Dustin Fowler or Miguel Andujar Dodgers: Alex Verdugo + Walker Buehler + Yusniel Diaz or Keibert Ruiz I mean the Astros could offer that, but I feel like half a dozen other teams would beat that offer... and it would probably still be short of what Hahn is asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 08:01 AM) Good post...but believe (for now) teams will shy away from offering super elite prospects like Torres...instead trying to acquire him for 3-4 players with two being MILB top 35-75. Absolutely--that key is "for now." So you don't trade him "now now now!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/houston-astros/...arisnick-14317/ I think they need to think outside the box and add Jake Marisnick to the package...they get certainty for the next three years in CF and have a premium defender to give confidence to all our young pitchers that will be coming up. He's like the WAR equivalent of Quintana, for one year less of control...and obviously you can trade him in 2020 if you want to put Anderson or Moncada in CF instead. Obviously you'd need Martes back, and a hitting prospect. CF Marisnick LF Moncada RF Garcia 3B Davidson/Burger SS Anderson 2B SANCHEZ 1B Hosmer/FA C Collins DH Abreu That gives the defense five potentially elite defenders...or they could sign Cain as a free agent. Not to mention Collins could be a really good defender as well. Undoubtedly, NONE of these things will occur. Edited June 16, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) Good post...but believe (for now) teams will shy away from offering super elite prospects like Torres...instead trying to acquire him for 3-4 players with two being MILB top 35-75. Super elite prospects were never being traded for Quintana though. I always thought he'd land a top 30 guy, another top 100, an org top 10, and a flyer type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I don't think I'd trade Quintana to Astros without Kyle Tucker. That's a deal breaker for me. Another team can and will beat their offer without him involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 09:27 AM) from David Schoenfield link So to be clear, Francis Martes + Franklin Perez + Teoscar Hernandez? why move him if that is the package? The farm provided they sign their first 15 picks is loaded with pitching and still needs more hitting. If Q is going to get moved to the Astros, Yankees or Dodgers for Hahn to say yes this season it would likely have to be for a package like this, he still has 8 starts including tonight to turn it around. Astros: Kyle Tucker + Franklin Perez + Yordan Alvarez or Jonathan Arauz Yankees: Blake Rutherford + Chance Adams + Dustin Fowler or Miguel Andujar Dodgers: Alex Verdugo + Walker Buehler + Yusniel Diaz or Keibert Ruiz Haha, that hypothetical Astros offer is laughable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) Haha, that hypothetical Astros offer is laughable! If the Astros offered Kyle Tucker, Franklin Perez, and Yordan Alvarez, I'd do that instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) I don't think I'd trade Quintana to Astros without Kyle Tucker. That's a deal breaker for me. Another team can and will beat their offer without him involved. I agree, and it appears they might just be too stubborn to do so. I really hope the Sox avoid the Astros. There are much easier fits elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I'm always amazed at how badly Schoenfield values these hypotheticals. Anyways, that seems like too much from Houston (beautox's package) but about right from the other teams. If Houston doesn't include Tucker it's hard to see a deal happening there. They don't have another high ceiling OF prospect that they can substitute. Fisher and Teoscar are nice supplementary pieces, but not headliners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I think we match up the best with the Yankees and Cubs tbh. I would love a package centered around Rutherford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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