Pedro Alvarez

[harfman77]

Indeed

Singing Alvarez makes no sense in the real world

 

It could make sense as a guy that you sign and move over the summer to a team looking for some LH power or a guy that you keep to play 1B if you move Abreu this summer.

[witesoxfan]

One cannot want the team to tank but then suggest signing a washed up player as a LH DH because the line-up lacks power.

 

The sooner Collins and Moncada are brought up, the sooner they start getting the experience they need. Minor league experience is overrated and

can be counterproductive to players who can get too comfortable there and accustomed to lower expectations and an inferior level of competition.

 

Collins can catch a few games here and there and get major league at bats as a platoon LH DH or pinch hitter. Moncada can share time with Saladino.

 

The rebuilding process involves trading veteran players and bringing up the top prospects to see if they can compote at this level and to gain major league experience.

 

lol wut

 

This is one of the most logically backward posts I've ever read.

[Bob Sacamano]

lol wut

 

This is one of the most logically backward posts I've ever read.

 

It's totally something they would do if they were trying to go for it and felt they were his bat away from being on top haha but this is a rebuild.

Edited March 1, 2017 by soxfan2014

[harfman77]

One cannot want the team to tank but then suggest signing a washed up player as a LH DH because the line-up lacks power.

 

The sooner Collins and Moncada are brought up, the sooner they start getting the experience they need. Minor league experience is overrated and

can be counterproductive to players who can get too comfortable there and accustomed to lower expectations and an inferior level of competition.

 

Collins can catch a few games here and there and get major league at bats as a platoon LH DH or pinch hitter. Moncada can share time with Saladino.

 

The rebuilding process involves trading veteran players and bringing up the top prospects to see if they can compote at this level and to gain major league experience.

 

I know the Sox philosophy has been to challenge prospects by aggressively promoting them so that they can deal with failure. I understand the logic behind that. Where I think they have gone wrong is not allowing guys to dominate a level for a period of time before and after experiencing failure. I think that is huge in building the confidence in players that they can be successful. If they don't taste success it can affect their ability to believe that they can succeed.

[tray]

lol wut

 

This is one of the most logically backward posts I've ever read.

 

"Logically backwards? " LOL.

[Sleepy Harold]

"Logically backwards? " LOL.

Illogical would be another way to put it. Calling up our top prospects to platoon them before they're ready is illogical.

[southsider2k5]

Illogical would be another way to put it. Calling up our top prospects to platoon them before they're ready is illogical.

 

Especially in a situation where we are talking about the difference between 68 and 71 wins.

[witesoxfan]

"Logically backwards? " LOL.

 

It's a terrible way to create the team. They aren't going to be good for at least a couple of years, if not more, and you are talking about using up valuable service time on Zack Collins to serve as a DH and a 3rd string catcher who gets maybe one start a week. Currently, his catching skills don't translate to the majors (calling a game, working with pitchers, blocking pitches, throwing, framing, among others), and if he is catching once a week, those skills will not improve quickly enough to make him a worthwhile long term catcher, which is where his long term value is. Beyond any of that, he hasn't had any at bats past A+, and he struck out in 25% of those ABs. You could almost certainly count on him striking out about 35% of the time at the MLB level.

 

Yoan Moncada struck out 31% of the time in 207 plate appearances in AA last year and was clearly overmatched in the majors last year, even if it was merely a cup of coffee. Wasting a year of service time with Moncada when he clearly needs more time to iron out the wrinkles puts the Sox at a huge disadvantage because they lose at least a full year of service time, if not more in the long run. Moncada turns 22 on May 27th. He's super young. It's not entirely unrealistic to expect him to not be up as a full time player until June of 2018. I'd guess it would be well before that, but it is not set in stone. If they do wait until June of 2018, he'd be under the Sox control through 2024. If they bring him up this year, as you suggest, he's only under control through 2022 and he's eligible to be a Super 2 player, which is less important but still ends up costing the Sox more money when they could instead be using those funds to add missing pieces to the puzzle.

 

Beyond any of that, there is legitimate risk of damaging prospects by rushing them. They get so far into their own head and outside their normal game that they cannot recover. Gordon Beckham is the perfect example of such a player.

 

I couldn't care less whether they sign Pedro Alvarez or not, but at least in this case if he hits well enough, you can get a live arm, similar to Nolan Sanburn, who was acquired for Adam Dunn. He probably turns into nothing but is worth a shot in the end. Your scenario carries so much risk and such little upside that it would take an insane management team to put that plan into action.

[greg775]

Ah yes, the Gordon Beckham approach to handling and developing young, supposedly elite talent. Screw that development time in the minors! Bring 'em all up ASAP and let's get this thing going at the MLB level immediately! Terrific idea!!

The Beckham topic is a pet peeve for me. I think it's totally absurd to blame Beckham's lousy career on rushing him. This is a tired cliche. I mean some sports you don't need any time in a "minor league." Have any sabes people done studies on whether this "rushing a player" phenomenon actually has ruined players' careers? I mean you either can hit big-league pitching or you can't. Beckham sadly fizzed. If he's smart though he's set for life. He made enough dough to be set for life.

[Sleepy Harold]

The Beckham topic is a pet peeve for me. I think it's totally absurd to blame Beckham's lousy career on rushing him. This is a tired cliche. I mean some sports you don't need any time in a "minor league." Have any sabes people done studies on whether this "rushing a player" phenomenon actually has ruined players' careers? I mean you either can hit big-league pitching or you can't. Beckham sadly fizzed. If he's smart though he's set for life. He made enough dough to be set for life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Clyde

This is just one name that came to mind for me, as I'm sure there are plenty of others out there.

 

 

While this is true in certain sports (NHL, NBA {NCAAF is practically the minor leagues}), baseball isn't one of those. Players are all different, some learn and adjust significantly quicker than others, some take much longer to develop, but each case would be unique and needs to be handled individually. Putting someone in a situation that they aren't necessarily ready for would be detrimental to development and confidence. Not everyone can be thrown to the wolves because "you can either hit big league pitching or you can't".

[greg775]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Clyde

This is just one name that came to mind for me, as I'm sure there are plenty of others out there.

 

 

While this is true in certain sports (NHL, NBA {NCAAF is practically the minor leagues}), baseball isn't one of those. Players are all different, some learn and adjust significantly quicker than others, some take much longer to develop, but each case would be unique and needs to be handled individually. Putting someone in a situation that they aren't necessarily ready for would be detrimental to development and confidence. Not everyone can be thrown to the wolves because "you can either hit big league pitching or you can't".

So how old do you have to be? The Royals have some slugger, Peter O'Brien, that was a second round pick and they acquired him this offseason from the Dbacks. He's 26. And I was reading he needs another full year in the minors. At 26?? Geez, you either can do it or you can't. Do people really believe Beckham was ruined by being rushed? I mean cmon. If that's true, that's pretty crazy. He's had a ton of MLB experience and frankly, he sucks. He every so often got on a tear when he ripped to all fields. Most of the time he was abysmal. If it is because he was rushed I'm amazed. Actually Beckham's best year might have been the 430 plate appearances he got at age 22. He hit .270 with a .347 OBP. 63 RBIs. After that initial burst he pretty much stunk. Either the scouts blew it on him or his refusal to hit to all fields turned him into a stiff.

Edited March 2, 2017 by greg775

[Sleepy Harold]

So how old do you have to be? The Royals have some slugger, Peter O'Brien, that was a second round pick and they acquired him this offseason from the Dbacks. He's 26. And I was reading he needs another full year in the minors. At 26?? Geez, you either can do it or you can't. Do people really believe Beckham was ruined by being rushed? I mean cmon. If that's true, that's pretty crazy. He's had a ton of MLB experience and frankly, he sucks. He every so often got on a tear when he ripped to all fields. Most of the time he was abysmal. If it is because he was rushed I'm amazed. Actually Beckham's best year might have been the 430 plate appearances he got at age 22. He hit .270 with a .347 OBP. 63 RBIs. After that initial burst he pretty much stunk. Either the scouts blew it on him or his refusal to hit to all fields turned him into a stiff.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/donaljo02.shtml

 

Take a look at Josh Donaldson's age/stats throughout his career. Offensively in the minors he never really lit the world on fire but was solid. Even at the time he was traded by the Cubs I believe he wasn't the headliner by far, even considered to be a throw-in. He changed positions, added a leg kick in his swing I believe and everything clicked later in his career at 26. Obviously this is an outlier, but it does happen. I'm not saying Davidson will turn out to be like this, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. See what you got in the kids, it's a rebuild. If they're bad they're bad, you learn and move on.

[steveno89]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Clyde

This is just one name that came to mind for me, as I'm sure there are plenty of others out there.

 

 

While this is true in certain sports (NHL, NBA {NCAAF is practically the minor leagues}), baseball isn't one of those. Players are all different, some learn and adjust significantly quicker than others, some take much longer to develop, but each case would be unique and needs to be handled individually. Putting someone in a situation that they aren't necessarily ready for would be detrimental to development and confidence. Not everyone can be thrown to the wolves because "you can either hit big league pitching or you can't".

 

The NHL actually has a pretty well developed minor league system in the AHL

 

Young players typically need to spend several seasons at that level before being ready to play in the NHL. I would not consider that a great example.

 

The NBA D-League is pretty much a joke, so I think that applies to a league that doesn't really have a developed minor league system. Same with the NFL.

[Sleepy Harold]

The NHL actually has a pretty well developed minor league system in the AHL

 

Young players typically need to spend several seasons at that level before being ready to play in the NHL. I would not consider that a great example.

 

The NBA D-League is pretty much a joke, so I think that applies to a league that doesn't really have a developed minor league system. Same with the NFL.

Yeah most of the TOP TOP draft talent in the NHL (Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk just using 2016 draft as an example) skip playing there entirely while most, like you said spend time in the AHL/Juniors/College/Euro teams. I was trying to give greg the benefit of the doubt on the topic.

[BlackSox13]

Alvarez signed a minor league deal with Baltimore. 2M base with 3.5M worth in incentives.

[greg775]

Alvarez signed a minor league deal with Baltimore. 2M base with 3.5M worth in incentives.

Disgraceful that the Sox didn't offer a similar deal earlier since we need a DH badly.

[hi8is]

Disgraceful that the Sox didn't offer a similar deal earlier since we need a DH badly.

Found more value in giving at bats to young guys

[Quin]

Coop won't fix 'em

[WBWSF]

Disgraceful that the Sox didn't offer a similar deal earlier since we need a DH badly.

The White Sox have no intention of signing anybody who adds to their payroll. The main objective for the organization is to have one of the lowest if not lowest payrolls entering the 2018 season. I figure their payroll next season (2018) will be around $50 million dollars. Forbes magazine said that the White Sox franchise gross about $250 million dollars. 2018 will be a very profitable year for JR even though it will be a disaster on the field.

[Chicago White Sox]

The White Sox have no intention of signing anybody who adds to their payroll. The main objective for the organization is to have one of the lowest if not lowest payrolls entering the 2018 season. I figure their payroll next season (2018) will be around $50 million dollars. Forbes magazine said that the White Sox franchise gross about $250 million dollars. 2018 will be a very profitable year for JR even though it will be a disaster on the field.

Good god dude, it's called a rebuild. They aren't trying to be cheap, there's simply no reason to waste money on a player who is unlikely to bring anything back meaningful come the trade deadline.

[BlackSox13]

Yeah, this isn't about being cheap, it's about being sensible. Alvarez is a DH, period. The Sox have plenty of those already. It really isn't a big deal that the Sox passed on a player with no position, for the second straight year went into ST unsigned and settled for a minor league contract. Good grief, people will use anything for an excuse to complain.

[WBWSF]

Good god dude, it's called a rebuild. They aren't trying to be cheap, there's simply no reason to waste money on a player who is unlikely to bring anything back meaningful come the trade deadline.

I don't call it a rebuild. I call it having one of the lowest if not lowest payroll in MLB. I fully expect the team to be sold after the 2018 season. It's much easier to sell a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts on the books. That's how I see this. If anybody thinks JR cares about anything else but money, I think they're misreading him entirely. I could be wrong. Time will tell.

 

[greg775]

I don't call it a rebuild. I call it having one of the lowest if not lowest payroll in MLB. I fully expect the team to be sold after the 2018 season. It's much easier to sell a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts on the books. That's how I see this. If anybody thinks JR cares about anything else but money, I think they're misreading him entirely. I could be wrong. Time will tell.

I'm in your corner on this. There's no reason to have that low a payroll when you are a big league franchise playing in Chicago. Very sad. At least tickets should be dirt cheap for the best seats on the secondary ticket market sites this year if anybody wants to see The Cell once or twice a summer despite the product.

Edited March 12, 2017 by greg775

[witesoxfan]

I don't call it a rebuild. I call it having one of the lowest if not lowest payroll in MLB. I fully expect the team to be sold after the 2018 season. It's much easier to sell a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts on the books. That's how I see this. If anybody thinks JR cares about anything else but money, I think they're misreading him entirely. I could be wrong. Time will tell.

 

That's why they continued attempting to patch winning teams together over the past 5 years, when it was clear there was not enough depth to the roster or in reinforcements to do so.

 

I also don't think the payroll has any bearing on selling a team, unless the team was butt and the payroll was near the luxury threshold. Teams are sold for over a billion dollars now a days. Even a $100 million difference in payroll is going to have no bearing on whether a person is interested in acquiring the team or not.

 

[harfman77]

I also don't think the payroll has any bearing on selling a team, unless the team was butt and the payroll was near the luxury threshold. Teams are sold for over a billion dollars now a days. Even a $100 million difference in payroll is going to have no bearing on whether a person is interested in acquiring the team or not.

 

Payroll definitely is a factor when determining the value of the team for a sale. The smaller the payroll, the lower the debt ratio and the more money that the partnership can get out of the team in a sale. Its also easier for perspective buyers to get financed as it decreases the debt that will be assumed which helps with MLB's alleged debt ceiling.