southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (hi8is @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 12:14 AM) Abreu has zero trade value? Sure. Compare and contrast to Mark Trumbo who got a 3 year salary on the open market almost exactly what Abreu got. Trumbo even plays some OF which adds to his value. Abreu is already at or above market value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 09:47 AM) Compare and contrast to Mark Trumbo who got a 3 year salary on the open market almost exactly what Abreu got. Trumbo even plays some OF which adds to his value. Abreu is already at or above market value. Mark Trumbo is bad though. He has a sub .300 .OBP. He's not really a similar player to Abreu. He's much more similar to Frazier but Frazier is a solid defender at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 07:26 AM) Even if any of these things are true, neither of the repeatedly injured Rutherford, nor the 18 IP-in-A+ Kaprelian, nor Mateo have proven enough to be the centerpiece to a trade for Q, full stop. All three may have substantial upside, as you claim. But at the same time, all three are far enough away from The Show, or have significant flaws as well. The Prospect Industrial Complex routinely over rates prospects, and history has shown that most of them fail. So, if you're trading away a PROVEN, TOR, LHP, @ that contract for a pile of A-ball schmucks, you're doing it wrong. The equation remains Torres ++ is what the Yankees have to give up. No Torres = No Q. Hell, they got Torres for a few months of a reliever. A GREAT reliever (with off the field issues, BTW ), but still "just" a reliever. This fandom has to be patient, rather than pining for the quick trade of the best pitching asset on the market for a pile of A-ball schmucks that haven't proven anything. Getting less than full value for Q will set this franchise back for YEARS, so better to wait for another club to become desperate. Torres has yet to play above A ball. Torres = schmuck. Just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/03/red-...p;post-id=87757 Boston still looking for a starting pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/03/red-...p;post-id=87757 Boston still looking for a starting pitcher. Maybe someone like Gonzalez. But probably a free agent signing or a trade for someone optionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 11:22 AM) Maybe someone like Gonzalez. But probably a free agent signing or a trade for someone optionable. Gonzalez for Devers seems fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 19, 2017 -> 07:43 PM) Frazier you trade for pretty much anything you can get. He has zero trade value. Same with Abreu. Abreu most certainly has trade value. C'mon man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 11:22 AM) Maybe someone like Gonzalez. But probably a free agent signing or a trade for someone optionable. With the long term deal that Price has, I think Gonzalez makes a lot more sense than Q does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 11:26 AM) Abreu most certainly has trade value. C'mon man. Look around baseball. One dimensional power hitters just don't carry the value that they used to. With Abreu being priced as essentially market price, there just isn't any meat on the bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Not sure Gonzalez in Fenway would be a smart idea for Boston but he wouldn't cost a ton either. Maybe Swihart and a lottery ticket for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 11:25 AM) Gonzalez for Devers seems fair. We'll throw in Frazier to upgrade to Benintendi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 11:28 AM) Look around baseball. One dimensional power hitters just don't carry the value that they used to. With Abreu being priced as essentially market price, there just isn't any meat on the bone. If Abreu hits like he did the final two months of last season he could have value at the deadline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 11:06 AM) Torres has yet to play above A ball. Torres = schmuck. Just sayin'... Neither has Kopech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) You're wrong. Just sayin'. QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) Neither has Kopech. I think you guys are both missing the mocking going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 From MLBTradeRumors: GM Brian Cashman says the Yankees are unlikely to trade for a rotation upgrade like Jose Quintana at this point, George A. King III of the New York Post writes. “I’m expecting we will go with what we got,” Cashman says. After Masahiro Tanaka, Michael Pineda and CC Sabathia, the favorites for the last two rotation jobs appear to be Luis Severino and Bryan Mitchell, with Adam Warren Luis Cessa, Chad Green and perhaps rookie Jordan Montgomery in the mix as well. King notes that if Montgomery does make the team after spending much of 2016 at the Double-A level, he’s likely to pitch in long relief rather than starting. It perhaps isn’t surprising that the Yankees aren’t planning on trading for a high-profile starter like Quintana — while Quintana would be under team control for up to four years, making him a long-term asset, acquiring him would likely require the Yankees to part with a decent chunk of the young talent they’ve accumulated in recent trades. Here’s more from the East divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) From MLBTradeRumors: Hmmm. Basically what everyone expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) From MLBTradeRumors: Makes sense to me Yankees would have to trade off quite a bit of the farm that they have built up in order to get Quintana Q is not going anywhere until closer to the deadline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) You're wrong. Just sayin'. Really? http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=torres000gle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 01:35 PM) I think you guys are both missing the mocking going on here. Bingo. I was just poking fun at the Yankee A ball prospects being Schmucks yet the headliner in a trade would have to be Torres, an A ball player. Just found it to be humorous is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 01:41 PM) Really? http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=torres000gle So hes a top 5 prospect because he got hot during the afl? His stats in A ball are pedestrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (reiks12 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) So hes a top 5 prospect because he got hot during the afl? His stats in A ball are pedestrian Pedestrian for a bat coming out of the college draft at 21 years old but not for a 19 year old kid playing his first full season at A+ ball. I don't know the numbers for sure but I can't imagine there being too many 19 year olds playing A+ ball. There's alot of talent and projection in Torres. Edited March 20, 2017 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (reiks12 @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) So hes a top 5 prospect because he got hot during the afl? His stats in A ball are pedestrian A near .800 OPS in high A from a 19 year old SS prospect is pedestrian?? I agree he's probably a bit overrated due to his AFL stint, but let's not sell his A ball numbers short. The kid is an incredible prospect and worthy of top 10/20 status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) A near .800 OPS in high A from a 19 year old SS prospect is pedestrian?? I agree he's probably a bit overrated due to his AFL stint, but let's not sell his A ball numbers short. The kid is an incredible prospect and worthy of top 10/20 status. Torres is legitimately a very good prospect who is advanced for his age His AFL stint is a small sample size that I would not put much stock into, but it does show he can handle better competition Scouting grades: Hit: 65 | Power: 55 | Run: 50 | Arm: 60 | Field: 55 | Overall: 65 Torres Scouting grades: Hit: 60 | Power: 55 | Run: 65 | Arm: 60 | Field: 50 | Overall: 65 Moncada ^^ from MLB.com. I would say those grades are Torres hitting his ceiling across the board Given the choice I would rather have Moncada over Torres, due to the clearly plus run tool. Both should be franchise players for their respective teams and are top 5 mlb prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 06:26 AM) Even if any of these things are true, neither of the repeatedly injured Rutherford, nor the 18 IP-in-A+ Kaprelian, nor Mateo have proven enough to be the centerpiece to a trade for Q, full stop. All three may have substantial upside, as you claim. But at the same time, all three are far enough away from The Show, or have significant flaws as well. The Prospect Industrial Complex routinely over rates prospects, and history has shown that most of them fail. So, if you're trading away a PROVEN, TOR, LHP, @ that contract for a pile of A-ball schmucks, you're doing it wrong. The equation remains Torres ++ is what the Yankees have to give up. No Torres = No Q. Hell, they got Torres for a few months of a reliever. A GREAT reliever (with off the field issues, BTW ), but still "just" a reliever. This fandom has to be patient, rather than pining for the quick trade of the best pitching asset on the market for a pile of A-ball schmucks that haven't proven anything. Getting less than full value for Q will set this franchise back for YEARS, so better to wait for another club to become desperate. I think you can defensibly say that you feel Hahn should insist on a centerpiece that is closer to the Majors but retains huge upside, as those guys are obviously more valuable. But to lump a bunch of top 30-40 prospects together as "A Ball shmucks" is just flat out destructive logic. Any good system needs depth at all levels, and great systems have high-upside depth at all levels. No one likes to hear the phrase "quantity over quality," but in reality, quantity is crucial, because even those "close to the Show" guys you're talking about fail at an alarming rate. For a team literally in year one of a rebuild, getting three guys with elite upside can often be way more valuable than a single guy with elite upside who just happens to have a higher floor. You DO need quantity, and if you've got to buy quantity, quantity with star upside is the best possible stuff to buy. Limiting our sights to a guy who can contribute next year has been what has been central to this team's inability to build a productive farm system despite years of failure at the MLB level. The only reason guys with this much upside are available at all is solely BECAUSE there's risk associated with not having been challenged at higher levels. Judging these types of guys as the same as anyone else in the low minors is nonsensical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2017 -> 05:49 PM) Limiting our sights to a guy who can contribute next year has been what has been central to this team's inability to build a productive farm system despite years of failure at the MLB level. The only reason guys with this much upside are available at all is solely BECAUSE there's risk associated with not having been challenged at higher levels. Judging these types of guys as the same as anyone else in the low minors is nonsensical. I just realized how many DBacks prospects the White Sox have traded for in the last 10 years or so, because for every Carlos Quentin or Adam Eaton, you end up with guys like Danny Richar or Matt Davidson, plus more guys who flame out before every getting a chance to do anything. Quantity is vital to rebuilding. The Cubs pretty much took chances on any and every young guy with talent that came by, filled out their roster with 1 year veterans, and flipped them for talented players who had issues for one reason or another. That Feldman for Arrieta and Strop trade is one of my favorite trades made in the last few years, because it so perfectly exemplifies what a rebuilding team needs to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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