Lucas Giolito

[elrockinMT]

Just seems odd that the Sox organization was getting tons of praise for ALL the prospects we picked up in the two major trades and now we suddenly get some negativity. I bet the writer is a Nats fan

[Dick Allen]

Just seems odd that the Sox organization was getting tons of praise for ALL the prospects we picked up in the two major trades and now we suddenly get some negativity. I bet the writer is a Nats fan

You can always find a scout that is down on just about any prospect. I bet there aren't anymore than 2 prospects today where you can't fairly easily find a scout who is a bit skeptical if you want to write about it. And the same is true the other way. There are guys you know have no chance but they are still there in a uniform because someone sees something.

 

There have been very few unanamous can't misses.

[Quin]

Based on the "Moncada isn't ready, we should have gotten Benintendi, Moncada's a bust" posts from barely a few weeks ago have been replaced with "future MVP, future HOF, he's got everything" I expect Giolito to be the 2017 Cy Young favorite in about two weeks

[elrockinMT]

I am convinced that many of these sports writers and bloggers don't know anything more about the game then most of us Soxtalk posters

[elrockinMT]

That may be true, but you realize the article in question is based solely on what scouts have seen from Giolito?

 

I believe it was fake news

[Thad Bosley]

Quick question. WTF does JR's ownership and the "conspiracy" rebuild have to do with Lucas Giolito's FB velocity drop and CB spin rate?

 

I swear some folks complain for the sake of complaining and if there was nothing to complain about, they would complain about that too.

 

Lighten up Sox fans and be glad baseball is back after a long winter.

As a White Sox fan, JR's continued ownership is far more interesting and with far more riding implications to White Sox baseball than Lucas Giolito's FB velocity ever will be. So any organic change in a discussion within a thread from the latter to the former should be very welcome for any true fan who is trying to navigate through the next few years of challenging waters in which "JR" and his merry court of management have thrust us.

[Lip Man 1]

Quick question. WTF does JR's ownership and the "conspiracy" rebuild have to do with Lucas Giolito's FB velocity drop and CB spin rate?

 

I swear some folks complain for the sake of complaining and if there was nothing to complain about, they would complain about that too.

 

Lighten up Sox fans and be glad baseball is back after a long winter.

 

Nothing at all...just responding to a certain posters constant, as in every post, refrain about JR selling. He's not, dead horse...just hoping he'll finally let it go.

 

Mark

 

[harfman77]

I think Giolito is going to be fine. He is a big kid and it takes those guys with the long arms and legs a bit longer to refine their mechanics. It is the same problem that Glasnow has had, Randy Johnson had a slow start to his career too. He is going to take a bit longer to develop, and thats OK, but that is part of what makes me hesistant to take on Glasnow, because it is hard to have two guys like that in the org and give them both the time they need to develop. Giolito's stuff is legit, I have not seen anyone question that, but he is going to take a bit longer to develop his command and control.

[harfman77]

WBWSF:

 

Sigh....OK...for the 8,456th time.

 

First off what any others investors want or wish MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...repeat NOTHING. JR has day to day control of the operations of the White Sox. IT IS IN HIS CONTRACT. He has the absolute final say on all matters including a possible sale. EVERY other minority owner can say, "we want to sell" but if JR says "no." That's it...over and done. Also unless JR is guilty of some type of illegal activity or is judged to no longer be in control of his mental capacity (i.e. unfit to run the operation) HE CAN NOT BE REMOVED FROM THAT POSITION. Again that is specifically stipulated in his contract. With the money the Sox are making no one can even hope to make that claim.

 

Second, based on what I've been told and from what I've read if JR were to sell before he passed away the tax could be as much as 200 MILLION DOLLARS on him and his family. 200 MILLION.

 

JR isn't the sharpest baseball guy around but he is a brilliant businessman who STARTED AS A TAX GUY. NO ONE knows the in's and out's of the tax laws better than him.

 

If you think he is going to inflict that kind of penalty on his family you are being delusional.

 

If the team is sold after he passes on the tax hit is much MUCH LOWER.

 

Like it or not, for better or worse he is going to own the franchise until it is time for him to leave this existence or unless the tax laws are changed.

 

But if you want to continue to believe in a fantasy then by all means...go for it.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to offend but this constant repetition of nonsense gets old.

 

And in the interest of full disclosure I have been asked to co-author a book on JR, one of the most successful and controversial sports owners in Chicago franchise history. I researched for six months including a number of direct interviews and put together a 75 page outline / format for the upcoming publication. The other person involved in this is now doing much of the writing. Basically I did most of the research and he is doing the other part of the process. He approached me with the idea. I thought it was worth my time and found it interesting so I did what I could.

 

Much of the info on JR is actually public record if you look hard enough.

 

Mark

 

Again, this is crazy talk. Yes, the capital gains tax will be less, but they are going to end up spending more in taxes due to inheritance tax if JR dies before the sale than they would pay on capital gains plus they will still have to pay capital gains on top of what they paid in taxes on the inheritance. Taxes will have nothing to do with the sale of this team, and even if it is a driver, it would drive them to sell sooner than later.

 

[witesoxfan]

You can always find a scout that is down on just about any prospect. I bet there aren't anymore than 2 prospects today where you can't fairly easily find a scout who is a bit skeptical if you want to write about it. And the same is true the other way. There are guys you know have no chance but they are still there in a uniform because someone sees something.

 

There have been very few unanamous can't misses.

 

Baseball is a game that is all about adjustments and young guys who have not made the proper adjustments yet will look worse. Keith Law said that he has doubts whether Moncada will be able to hit the inside pitch, but how often has he actually watched him? There are definite concerns with Moncada but the talent is clearly there to at least be an above average regular in the majors.

[southsider2k5]

Again, this is crazy talk. Yes, the capital gains tax will be less, but they are going to end up spending more in taxes due to inheritance tax if JR dies before the sale than they would pay on capital gains plus they will still have to pay capital gains on top of what they paid in taxes on the inheritance. Taxes will have nothing to do with the sale of this team, and even if it is a driver, it would drive them to sell sooner than later.

 

The wild card in all of this is a Donald Trump Presidency. You know he is looking to destroy the captial gains and inheritance taxes. JR is smart enough to realize that any changes that happens in those areas could well be quickly overturned with a new President and Congress, and try to get something done in a limited time frame.

[southsider2k5]

Baseball is a game that is all about adjustments and young guys who have not made the proper adjustments yet will look worse. Keith Law said that he has doubts whether Moncada will be able to hit the inside pitch, but how often has he actually watched him? There are definite concerns with Moncada but the talent is clearly there to at least be an above average regular in the majors.

 

The information in those discussions is important. A guy whose biggest knock is immaturity is a better bet than a guy with actual mechanical problems, as a pure example. Some things are much easier to fix than others. The larger and more complex those fixes are, the less likely they are to be over come. A guy with control problems is much easier to fix than one with control and mechanical problems, for example. If it were my money, I'd put way more money on Moncada being a star than Giolito. Doesn't mean things can't be overcome or the like, but the concerns are still valid.

[harfman77]

The wild card in all of this is a Donald Trump Presidency. You know he is looking to destroy the captial gains and inheritance taxes. JR is smart enough to realize that any changes that happens in those areas could well be quickly overturned with a new President and Congress, and try to get something done in a limited time frame.

 

Yeah, I don't see much happening on that front, he is burning through political capital quickly and Congressional ineptness is going nowhere.

 

Though somewhat related, the Kushners were rumored to have a handshake deal to buy the Marlins from Loria despite not having the cash to get a deal done, which would lead to another Dodger like debt ceiling conversation.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, I don't see much happening on that front, he is burning through political capital quickly and Congressional ineptness is going nowhere.

 

Though somewhat related, the Kushners were rumored to have a handshake deal to buy the Marlins from Loria despite not having the cash to get a deal done, which would lead to another Dodger like debt ceiling conversation.

 

Unlike health care reform, the right is pretty unified on tax reduction. That one is a slam dunk.

[caulfield12]

Unlike health care reform, the right is pretty unified on tax reduction. That one is a slam dunk.

 

Yes, but they were counting on offsets from the health care reform. The caveat is they ca't add to the deficit, and won't be able to cut enough from discretionary spending to get anywhere close to one trillion.

 

Broad and sweeping tax reform hasn't happened since the Reagan/Tip O'Neill days in the mid 1980's.

[southsider2k5]

Yes, but they were counting on offsets from the health care reform. The caveat is they ca't add to the deficit, and won't be able to cut enough from discretionary spending to get anywhere close to one trillion.

 

Broad and sweeping tax reform hasn't happened since the Reagan/Tip O'Neill days in the mid 1980's.

 

lol.

[caulfield12]

lol.

 

The budget resolution for the current fiscal year dictates that any reconciliation measure must reduce the deficit, which the GOP's Obamacare repeal was designed to do. Republicans then could draft a new budget resolution for the upcoming fiscal year with easier deficit targets, allowing for more aggressive tax cuts.

 

Technically, tax reform passed through reconciliation still can't add to the deficit. But there are ways for lawmakers to sidestep that rule, for instance by adopting alternative baselines.

 

http://kpcw.org/post/what-failure-obamacar...reform#stream/0

 

 

Yes, it's a thing. You really believe potential loopholes are going to protect a huge tax break for the top 10% and corporations in this current political climate? That would require the HFC again...so the only way is giving a huge middle class tax cut to bring Dems on board. Will believe it when I see it.

Edited March 27, 2017 by caulfield12

[Quin]

Uh, guys. Buster if we're gonna continue this.

[shipps]

One of the more impressive things I've heard from the Sox beat is that Giolito is an extremely mature dude especially for his age. This makes me confident that whatever hurdles that he is going to face he will handle it like a boss.

[BlackSox13]

One of the more impressive things I've heard from the Sox beat is that Giolito is an extremely mature dude especially for his age. This makes me confident that whatever hurdles that he is going to face he will handle it like a boss.

Well said. Giolito has issues to work on but I think it's important to remember he is only 22 so even if he takes another year or two to finish developing, so be it. No rush while in rebuild mode.

 

I do think the velo drop is something to keep an eye on but it's just ST. If the velo is still low come mid summer, then I'll be concerned. Hopefully it's just his arm needing more time to stretch out.

[chitownsportsfan]

Just be a solid 3rd or 4th starter and stay healthy. That's all I ask.

[Lip Man 1]

Again, this is crazy talk. Yes, the capital gains tax will be less, but they are going to end up spending more in taxes due to inheritance tax if JR dies before the sale than they would pay on capital gains plus they will still have to pay capital gains on top of what they paid in taxes on the inheritance. Taxes will have nothing to do with the sale of this team, and even if it is a driver, it would drive them to sell sooner than later.

 

Iowa:

 

Not according to what tax experts have told me. I'm not a tax guy so I have no idea.

 

Bottom line, he's not selling. For better or worse that's the reality.

 

Mark

 

[oldsox]

The wild card in all of this is a Donald Trump Presidency. You know he is looking to destroy the captial gains and inheritance taxes. JR is smart enough to realize that any changes that happens in those areas could well be quickly overturned with a new President and Congress, and try to get something done in a limited time frame.

C'mon, Southsider. You can find a better, more accurate word, can't you?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Why exactly is the majority of this thread about politics instead of Giolito? I purposely avoid the filibuster section because I come here to talk Sox...not to have to go through tons of political posts and see people bickering at each other.

[Quin]

Why exactly is the majority of this thread about politics instead of Giolito? I purposely avoid the filibuster section because I come here to talk Sox...not to have to go through tons of political posts and see people bickering at each other.

 

SS2K5's initial point was relevant - to assume that government regulations wouldn't effect the taxes of a Sox sale would be impossible.

 

But, politics is done in this thread now. No baiting, no bumping the politics, etc. That's the thread warning. Talk about Giolito or it gets locked.