NCAA basketball thread 2017-18

[illinilaw08]

So, Illinois now has Nichols and Finke as their frontcourt, right?

 

Black. DJ Williams can probably play the 4 in this system. And I'd expect Illinois to be really active in the 5th year transfer market on bigs.

[gatnom]

Come on now bmags. This is the default setting for some portion of EVERY fanbase. To state that it's unique to Illinois is silly.

 

As to Tilmon, I'll echo what plenty of people on here already have said. THIS recruitment was dirty when Illinois got his verbal. It was dirty when they fought off Ford and SLU on Signing Day. And it's dirty now when he wants out. It's ridiculous that Illinois has had to go through this with Tilmon three times.

 

Honestly, I'm not even that mad about it. We knew that firing Groce had a good chance of causing Tilmon to leave, and quite frankly, it's hard to even imagine him staying with Groce at this point. Does it suck that Tilmon strung us along for so long? Of course. But, I'd take Underwood over Cuonzo Martin + whatever recruits he could guarantee, and with that point of view, I'm not worried about short term losses like Tilmon, 5* or not.

 

 

[bigruss]

Honestly, I'm not even that mad about it. We knew that firing Groce had a good chance of causing Tilmon to leave, and quite frankly, it's hard to even imagine him staying with Groce at this point. Does it suck that Tilmon strung us along for so long? Of course. But, I'd take Underwood over Cuonzo Martin + whatever recruits he could guarantee, and with that point of view, I'm not worried about short term losses like Tilmon, 5* or not.

You can't get out of an NLI if your coached stayed, so the whole "groce couldn't keep him" shtick doesn't quite work.

 

But I agree, long term we are in a good position with Underwood. There's no guarantee for either Illinois or Mizzou with our coaches, but I like our position.

[gatnom]

You can't get out of an NLI if your coached stayed, so the whole "groce couldn't keep him" shtick doesn't quite work.

 

But I agree, long term we are in a good position with Underwood. There's no guarantee for either Illinois or Mizzou with our coaches, but I like our position.

 

Ah, I figured the school could release you from the agreement whenever. Obviously, would look a bit shadier without having the cover of the coach leaving.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Piper just posted some interesting info. The nuts and bolts are that Tilmon told Underwood and Walker at the end of their in home meeting shortly after Underwood was hired that he was committed and would not ask for a release. Days ago his mother confirmed they were still good. Then he did this out of the blue today without the approval of his mother (she's the main driver of him committing). She was not/is not happy about it and still thinks he'll be in Champaign next year.

 

He also surmised this is all because Tilmon is upset that Mark Smith is getting attention and is making a power play to get more attention (and probably money). If true, f*** that kid.

 

edit: corrected a few minor details.

Edited April 5, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[Y2Jimmy0]

Piper just posted some interesting info. The nuts and bolts are that Tilmon told Underwood and Walker at the end of their in home meeting shortly after Underwood was hired that he was committed and would not ask for a release. Days ago his mother confirmed they were still good. Then he did this out of the blue today without the approval of his mother (she's the main driver of him committing). She was not/is not happy about it and still thinks he'll be in Champaign next year.

 

He also surmised this is all because Tilmon is upset that Mark Smith is getting attention and is making a power play to get more attention (and probably money). If true, f*** that kid.

 

edit: corrected a few minor details.

 

 

f*** that kid? Really? Isn't he like 18? You are taking this a bit too seriously. All I've seen on twitter is people calling Tilmon names. College sports diehards are so f***ing creepy and weird. Holy cow. People need to leave the kid alone and let him figure out the rest of his life. Also, Orlando Antigua is a big deal. They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I were an Illini fan, I'd rather have Antigua than Tilmon.

[GGajewski18]

f*** that kid? Really? Isn't he like 18? You are taking this a bit too seriously. All I've seen on twitter is people calling Tilmon names. College sports diehards are so f***ing creepy and weird. Holy cow. People need to leave the kid alone and let him figure out the rest of his life. Also, Orlando Antigua is a big deal. They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I were an Illini fan, I'd rather have Antigua than Tilmon.

 

A lot of Illinois friends agree with you.

[LittleHurt05]

Days like yesterday make me glad I no longer really follow recruiting very much until the kids hit campus. And that's for the Tilmon and Antigua stuff.

[Panerista]

f*** that kid? Really? Isn't he like 18? You are taking this a bit too seriously. All I've seen on twitter is people calling Tilmon names. College sports diehards are so f***ing creepy and weird. Holy cow. People need to leave the kid alone and let him figure out the rest of his life. Also, Orlando Antigua is a big deal. They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I were an Illini fan, I'd rather have Antigua than Tilmon.

Lots of good stuff here. First, agreed on the attitude towards Tilmon. The young man signed on to play for a coach that is no longer at college. Second, I have to catch myself over-concentrating on college sports simply because it is a very dirty business borderline exploiting 18 year olds.

 

Most importantly, with or without Antigua, Underwood alone is significantly more important than one recruit. If he's a bad coach, it doesn't really matter if Tilmon comes or not and if he's a good coach, we're a lot better off than with Groce at the helm. Antigua is a great get, and there are just so much more important things than Tilmon at Illinois right now.

[Jenksismyhero]

f*** that kid? Really? Isn't he like 18? You are taking this a bit too seriously. All I've seen on twitter is people calling Tilmon names. College sports diehards are so f***ing creepy and weird. Holy cow. People need to leave the kid alone and let him figure out the rest of his life. Also, Orlando Antigua is a big deal. They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I were an Illini fan, I'd rather have Antigua than Tilmon.

 

It's my opinion, not something I would ever say to him. Fans talking to recruits is creepy, I completely agree.

 

But as a fan of the program, I don't buy the nonsense "he's just 18 and a kid" stuff. You can vote at 18. You can go to war and die at 18. Are you emotionally as stable as someone 10-15 years older? No. But you're not a 5 year old either. He knows exactly what he's doing - negotiating for more.

 

The dude has every right to change his mind, but that doesn't make his flip flopping and inability to commit any better. If he continues to flip flop in order to gain an edge in the business side of recruiting, and his commitment continues to mean nothing, then yes, f*** him. The program should move on and not waste any more time on him. He's not an absolute must get. He's not going to make or break next season or the seasons thereafter.

 

 

[bigruss]

Sounds like both Tilmon and Illinois are going to mutually part ways. And by mutually, I mean Illinois doesn't think it'd be healthy for a lot of reasons to continue to recruit Tilmon and that he's sold on going elsewhere, so they aren't going to pursue him hard a 3rd time.

[gatnom]

Sounds like both Tilmon and Illinois are going to mutually part ways. And by mutually, I mean Illinois doesn't think it'd be healthy for a lot of reasons to continue to recruit Tilmon and that he's sold on going elsewhere, so they aren't going to pursue him hard a 3rd time.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, the Braggin' Rights game should be fun this year.

 

Mizzou will definitely have more talent, but can Cuonzo win with it?

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Sounds like both Tilmon and Illinois are going to mutually part ways. And by mutually, I mean Illinois doesn't think it'd be healthy for a lot of reasons to continue to recruit Tilmon and that he's sold on going elsewhere, so they aren't going to pursue him hard a 3rd time.

 

Good for them. Go back and get Kirr and get Smith and they'll be fine.

[gatnom]

Good for them. Go back and get Kirr and get Smith and they'll be fine.

 

Doesn't sound like they'll be getting either, but you never know.

 

 

[RockRaines]

It's my opinion, not something I would ever say to him. Fans talking to recruits is creepy, I completely agree.

 

But as a fan of the program, I don't buy the nonsense "he's just 18 and a kid" stuff. You can vote at 18. You can go to war and die at 18. Are you emotionally as stable as someone 10-15 years older? No. But you're not a 5 year old either. He knows exactly what he's doing - negotiating for more.

 

The dude has every right to change his mind, but that doesn't make his flip flopping and inability to commit any better. If he continues to flip flop in order to gain an edge in the business side of recruiting, and his commitment continues to mean nothing, then yes, f*** him. The program should move on and not waste any more time on him. He's not an absolute must get. He's not going to make or break next season or the seasons thereafter.

It's only one of the biggest decisions in his life......

[Jenksismyhero]

It's only one of the biggest decisions in his life......

 

And I can appreciate that, but let's call it what this is - a negotiation. I don't think it's appropriate to view recruitment of high level players as a bidding war in the ugly side of college athletics, but then pretend these kids are all saintly and merely making a decision to play basketball at the place where they can obtain what's best for them.

 

His original non-commitment, then commitment and now de-commitment have nothing to do with the "good" side of college sports. It's about maximizing his worth for him and/or his family. He's got every right to do that, but he's not absolved from being s***ty to people at the program I root for.

 

edit: and to be clear, when I say "f*** him," it's not a personal attack against him for his decision making, it's my opinion that the school should be done with him. Focus energy elsewhere.

Edited April 7, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[BigHurt3515]

Wichita State going to the AAC.

 

MVC needs to go get Belmont

[Rowand44]

Ya this super sucks. Like I said in the Arch thread, you can't blame them but damn it.

[Panerista]

I'm not being sarcastic when I say I am happy Illinois hired a potentially dirty coach. Can't win in the NCAA without getting your hands dirty.

[Brian]

Ya this super sucks. Like I said in the Arch thread, you can't blame them but damn it.

 

Maybe we should have 10 years ago

[RockRaines]

And I can appreciate that, but let's call it what this is - a negotiation. I don't think it's appropriate to view recruitment of high level players as a bidding war in the ugly side of college athletics, but then pretend these kids are all saintly and merely making a decision to play basketball at the place where they can obtain what's best for them.

 

His original non-commitment, then commitment and now de-commitment have nothing to do with the "good" side of college sports. It's about maximizing his worth for him and/or his family. He's got every right to do that, but he's not absolved from being s***ty to people at the program I root for.

 

edit: and to be clear, when I say "f*** him," it's not a personal attack against him for his decision making, it's my opinion that the school should be done with him. Focus energy elsewhere.

The kids go with comfort and relationships most of the time, and that changes day to day. They are young even if they can legally vote. Plus just like with anything, they have a backup plan and a target plan, and will ditch the backup easily if their target comes into play.

[GGajewski18]

Javon Pickett asks for his release from Illinois now. Wow.

[Boogua]

Javon Pickett asks for his release from Illinois now. Wow.

Apparently Underwood told him he'd have to redshirt and likely wouldn't play much until his junior year.

 

Illinois initially took him to help get Tilmon and Goodwin, considering they now have neither this isn't a big loss.

 

I hope he succeeds wherever he goes. Seems like a good kid. I hope Tilmon fails miserably.

[whitesoxfan99]

Javon Pickett asks for his release from Illinois now. Wow.

 

I can't even pretend to care about that one. Obviously would have loved to have Tilmon come but Pickett was really only offered for his connection to Goodwin and Tilmon.

[Panerista]

I can't even pretend to care about that one. Obviously would have loved to have Tilmon come but Pickett was really only offered for his connection to Goodwin and Tilmon.

Agreed. I just couldn't care less at this point. No one should expect Illinois to be all that good this year. As long as they are a better coached team, Underwood gets at least a B.