The Korea Situation; It's Very Serious

[StrangeSox]

Still need 1) reliable ICBM launch and 2) reentry, which is a big technical challenge, but yeah, it's one step closer.

 

The unanimous UN sanctions announced yesterday probably won't do anything. They're dead set on getting a deliverable bomb. Short of a military invasion that will cost hundreds of thousands of lives along with trillions of dollars, I'm not really sure what anyone can do.

 

I also don't really think NK would ever use a nuclear weapon in a first strike because they know it would be the end of them. I also hope that they have a decent command and control structure so that a single insane megalomaniac ruler doesn't have the sole, unchallengable power to launch nuclear weapons.

[illinilaw08]

Yep, waiting sure has been a positive thing.

 

Come on now, SSK. You obviously know that the alternative to all the sanctions and whatnot of NK was an invasion - either by bombing campaign or an actual ground force. Who knows how China reacts to that. NK definitely reacts by sending missiles into South Korea. Millions of South Koreans probably die which destabilizes that entire region. I mean, NK's nuclear program is definitely a concern and a major risk to the West, but let's not act like there was a particularly reasonable alternative to sanctions and more sanctions.

[Quin]

Come on now, SSK. You obviously know that the alternative to all the sanctions and whatnot of NK was an invasion - either by bombing campaign or an actual ground force. Who knows how China reacts to that. NK definitely reacts by sending missiles into South Korea. Millions of South Koreans probably die which destabilizes that entire region. I mean, NK's nuclear program is definitely a concern and a major risk to the West, but let's not act like there was a particularly reasonable alternative to sanctions and more sanctions.

 

Even NK isn't crazy enough to actually launch a nuclear warhead at the U.S.

 

They would be wiped off the map within minutes. It's a nuclear deterrent.

[southsider2k5]

Come on now, SSK. You obviously know that the alternative to all the sanctions and whatnot of NK was an invasion - either by bombing campaign or an actual ground force. Who knows how China reacts to that. NK definitely reacts by sending missiles into South Korea. Millions of South Koreans probably die which destabilizes that entire region. I mean, NK's nuclear program is definitely a concern and a major risk to the West, but let's not act like there was a particularly reasonable alternative to sanctions and more sanctions.

 

This is what appeasement is. I have been told for decades that there is nothing we can do about it, they aren't a threat, if we give them what they want they will back off etc. Instead we have a disaster waiting to happen. And we are going to keep waiting until it happens, and then everyone will take joy in pointing fingers and pretending like they tried to stop it from getting this far like they did with 9/11.

[Jenksismyhero]

Even NK isn't crazy enough to actually launch a nuclear warhead at the U.S.

 

They would be wiped off the map within minutes. It's a nuclear deterrent.

 

The concern is the sale of that weapon/tech to a group like ISIS (or the next group to take over from ISIS), not a strike from NK directly.

[StrangeSox]

This is what appeasement is. I have been told for decades that there is nothing we can do about it, they aren't a threat, if we give them what they want they will back off etc. Instead we have a disaster waiting to happen. And we are going to keep waiting until it happens, and then everyone will take joy in pointing fingers and pretending like they tried to stop it from getting this far like they did with 9/11.

When are you signing your family up for military service, possibly moving them to Seoul to be first in line when the missiles rain down in response to military action against NK?

 

There's not any easy answers with NK, but I don't think I've ever seen you acknowledge the enormous costs in terms of both spending and, more importantly, human lives. Invading to stop WMD's doesn't exactly have a great track record itself.

Edited August 8, 2017 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

When are you signing your family up for military service, possibly moving them to Seoul to be first in line when the missiles rain down in response to military action against NK?

 

lol, nice non sequitor. If you can't see the danger here, there isn't anything that can be said to change it. The same people have been feeding the same lines for decades now yet NK keeps going towards this end game. But the important thing here is political points.

[StrangeSox]

There is very real danger there. There's also very real danger in taking military action against NK, which you never want to acknowledge. It's not a non sequitor to point out that you're willing to risk millions of peoples' lives for your preferred NK solution, but you're not willing to risk your own.

 

That's not about political points, either. There's nothing Republican or Democratic there. It's about "attacking NK is going to lead to at least hundreds of thousands of deaths, possibly millions."

Edited August 8, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

I'm also honestly more worried about the insane man with total, unilateral control of the largest military force and nuclear arsenal on the face of the earth than I am worried about NK.

[StrangeSox]

The concern is the sale of that weapon/tech to a group like ISIS (or the next group to take over from ISIS), not a strike from NK directly.

 

I think there's more concern about that happening via former Soviet republics but I could be wrong on that. They certainly wouldn't be selling ICBM's to non-state groups who couldn't really do anything with them anyway.

[StrangeSox]

If you're worried about nuclear proliferation, and you should be, you should be terrified by what's happening to non-proliferation efforts at both State and DoE out of what appears to be complete and total incompetence and stupidity

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/dep...s-michael-lewis

Edited August 8, 2017 by StrangeSox

[GoSox05]

Country that is currently occupying two other countries, bombing 7 countries, funding one country as it causes mass famine is very scared of country that might get bomb that we are the only ones to have actually used.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

There is very real danger there. There's also very real danger in taking military action against NK, which you never want to acknowledge. It's not a non sequitor to point out that you're willing to risk millions of peoples' lives for your preferred NK solution, but you're not willing to risk your own.

 

That's not about political points, either. There's nothing Republican or Democratic there. It's about "attacking NK is going to lead to at least hundreds of thousands of deaths, possibly millions."

 

Doing nothing IS risking millions of lives. That is what you are all missing here. But they aren't white, so American's don't generally care.

[StrangeSox]

Wait, what?

 

Those of us who don't want military action because it'll result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions of Koreans on both sides of the border don't care about non-whites?

 

Do you at least acknowledge that your preferred course of action, which would appear to be some sort of military action, will result in many, many people on the Korean peninsula dying? And, given the infrastructure and terrain in NK, that the military action would likely need to be invasion and occupation?

[Dick Allen]

I think the best option is to take him out.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think the best option is to take him out.

 

Didn't we just go through 10-15 years of being told what a terrible policy that is?

[Dick Allen]

Didn't we just go through 10-15 years of being told what a terrible policy that is?

He's power happy. If you invade, he'll start pressing buttons. He won't care if his country turns into a parking lot. If he isn't in charge, no one should be. If you just wait for something awful to happen, then something awful is going to happen, and you turn his country into a parking lot. I say, save lives. End his.

 

But apparently that isn't an option. I watched a 60 Minutes piece a few months ago and they were speaking with a US commander in South Korea by the border. He said they had a clear shot at him a few days prior but that wasn't the plan.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Jenksismyhero]

He's power happy. If you invade, he'll start pressing buttons. He won't care if his country turns into a parking lot. If he isn't in charge, no one should be. If you just wait for something awful to happen, then something awful is going to happen, and you turn his country into a parking lot. I say, save lives. End his.

 

But apparently that isn't an option. I watched a 60 Minutes piece a few months ago and they were speaking with a US commander in South Korea by the border. He said they had a clear shot at him a few days prior but that wasn't the plan.

 

The humanitarian effort would be insane. The NK people need help but they've been brainwashed for decades. They would probably resist those efforts. They have no concept of what's going on in the real world.

 

SK would have to take the lead, and who knows if they want to. China would be pissed. Russia would be pissed. The leftovers of his regime would be pissed. I'm sure they have a contingency plan in place if he's killed.

 

Starting a coup from the inside would be the best route, but I don't know how you would even begin to go about that.

Edited August 8, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[illinilaw08]

Doing nothing IS risking millions of lives. That is what you are all missing here. But they aren't white, so American's don't generally care.

 

Now this is a different argument. If you are expressing humanitarian concern about the fate of innocent North Koreans, well, there isn't a good answer there either, obviously. But I would argue that one of the major reasons to not have invaded North Korea in the last 60 years was because of the risk to South Korean lives. Now that they have a nuke, well, that's the first time this situation has the potential - however slim - to impact Americans directly. Long story short, I'm not sure what you are arguing right now...

[greg775]

US analysts believe they've miniaturized their warhead and can mount it on an ICBM now

 

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/894954486762008576

Some good posts in this thread.

Guys, nobody wants war, but it's time to play War Games over this issue.

Would Russia and China agree to a meeting with Trump now in which Trump tells them that this is crisis mode? He tells them that we have been issued a direct warning by Kim that North Korea is going to punish us for the sanctions. We have taken Kim's warning seriously. We are going to tell him to dismantle all nukes now or we are prepared to drop bombs on North Korea now in an attempt to hit all their plants and kill Kim Jong Un. Yes, this means Kim probably immediately bombs South Korea and begins what could be the end of the world as we know it.

 

Kim has specifically threatened us. He has nukes now and we do not have the technology to blow them out of the sky and protect ourselves. What are we supposed to do? What if he was threatening China like this? What would China do? Are we supposed to sit back and say, 'Oh Kim is bluffing. He's not going to attack the U.S. because he knows that will be the end, that we'll blow North Korea off the map and he will die.' I don't see how we can sit back and relax here.

 

Kim is arguably insane and knows odds are he's not going to lead a long life if he continues to be this outspoken and aggressive. What better way to go out than fire some nukes at the U.S. and end the world as we know it? How can we sit back and do nothing? Hopefully our military people are good enough and spy well enough to know actually what's going on in N. Korea and if indeed they are planning a surprise launch of nukes at the USA.

 

Why no emergency meeting of USA, Russia and China in which we tell those folks, look, we have to do something. Fact: We've been threatened by Kim. He flat out says he's going to gain revenge. How can we sit back and do nothing? If Kim wants to start the war that ends the world he must be stopped. It's either kill him or sit back and wait and see if he's bluffing. One thing for sure. It's going to be the worst day in American history when we wake up to the news a nuclear warhead has been spotted on the way to the USA and is going to hit land within 24 hours and there's nothing we can do about it.

[StrangeSox]

[Kyyle23]

Lovely

[bigruss]

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Twenty-five million reasons the U.S. hasn’t struck North Korea

 

 

The Second Corps of the Korean People's Army stationed at Kaesong on the northern side of the DMZ has about 500 artillery pieces, Bermudez said. And this is just one army corps; similar corps are on either side of it.

 

All the artillery pieces in the Second Corps can reach the northern outskirts of Seoul, just 30 miles from the DMZ, but the largest projectiles could fly to the south of the capital.

....

About half of North Korea's artillery pieces are multiple rocket launchers, including 18 to 36 of the huge 300mm launchers that Pyongyang has bragged about. State media last year published photos of the system during a test firing that Kim attended.

 

The 300mm guns could probably fire eight rounds every 15 minutes, Bermudez said, and have a range of about 44 miles.

....

If North Korea were to start unleashing its artillery on the South, it would be able to fire about 4,000 rounds an hour, Roger Cavazos of the Nautilus Institute estimated in a 2012 study. There would be 2,811 fatalities in the initial volley and 64,000 people could be killed that first day, the majority of them in the first three hours, he wrote.

....

Some of the victims would be American, because the U.S. military has about 28,000 troops in South Korea. The higher estimates for the 300mm rocket launcher's range -- up to 65 miles -- would put the U.S. Air Force base at Osan and the new military garrison at Pyeongtaek, the replacement for the huge base in Seoul, within reach.

[greg775]

This probably would be best in another thread, but it's scary how quickly things could change ... in a blink of an eye the world could change forever as we know it.

This is not the best matchup either: the ultra aggressive, ruthless businessman, make quick forceful decisions Donald Trump against the aggressive, ruthless, morally corrupt Kim Jong Un. Cooler heads prevail here? Dunno bout that.

Edited August 8, 2017 by greg775