Two-Gun Pete Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 08:27 AM) Considering 1 out of 30 teams actually signs a player, the majority of times, most teams FAIL to sign an individual player, therefore we probably should consider Robert signing with anyone a longshot. Sure. But as a SOX fan with my eyes wide open, I can see through their so-called "pursuit" of young international FAs, and the subsequent press conferences as farces intended to try to dupe us. Until they prove otherwise, I'll continue to doubt this org in terms of their seriousness in actually LANDING young FAs. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:20 AM) No,that isn't central to my view on this. My view is that this organization hates to sign prospects because (in Jerry's words, not mine) "Prospects are just prospects." Moreover, recent history indicates that this organization will inevitably fail to get the 20 year old youngster in international FA, but when it comes to landing the 30+ year old veteran who's in decline, "Kenny always gets his man." Alright. Well you aren't really being rational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) The Sox are one of only three teams to never hand out a contract greater than $70 million. That's not necessarily a bad thing when you see how many of them turn out in the end. The key is to have the proper people to evaluate and pick the right ones. They signed Joey Belle to the highest FA contract at the time. I still like that one although he was a nutcase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:26 AM) Alright. Well you aren't really being rational. It's a fun argument when signing Viciedo, Ramirez and Abreu doesn't matter, but that also being high in final biddings for Soler and Tanaka also doesn't matter, because the point is don't you understand the white sox are cheap and you can't prove otherwise? I hope white sox sign him, but it also is a little bit of doubt for me considering both Law and Longenhagen are not that high on him. BA seems to be the outlier. And there is basically no international competition to speak of, other than a very low level indy showcase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) Everyone has a right to their opinion but at the same time, will those who turn out to be entirely wrong come back here and admit that they were wrong ? I doubt it. Reinsdorf is a billionaire who signed the largest Contract with a pro athlete in its time with Michael Jordan.On the other hand, JR does not believe that spending more than other teams guarantees a championship. He has been burned by any number of player Contracts for the Sox and Bulls. Thus, he proceeds with caution and requires team management to perform due diligence on these players, especially when a lot of money is involved. My own opinion is that JR will tell Hahn to go after Robert like a b1tch and that money will not be an issue. The Sox appear to be a perfect fit for this player. Edited April 21, 2017 by miracleon35th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:20 AM) No,that isn't central to my view on this. My view is that this organization hates to sign prospects because (in Jerry's words, not mine) "Prospects are just prospects." Moreover, recent history indicates that this organization will inevitably fail to get the 20 year old youngster in international FA, but when it comes to landing the 30+ year old veteran who's in decline, "Kenny always gets his man." The point you are missing is that he is correct. Most will fail. The odds of this player being a star in the MLB are slim. The key is not to spend wildly on all the FA prospects. The key is to evaluate them properly and determine the risk. Then you assign a price tag that you feel is acceptable for the risk. They did this with Viciedo and outbid other teams and it didn't workout. They do need to take the risk at some point but they can't just go crazy on all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:37 AM) Everyone has a right to their opinion but at the same time, will those who turn out to be entirely wrong come back here and admit that they were wrong ? I doubt it. Reinsdorf is a billionaire who signed the largest Contract with a pro athlete in its time with Michael Jordan.On the other hand, JR does not believe that spending more than other teams guarantees a championship. He has been burned by any number of player Contracts for the Sox and Bulls. Thus, he proceeds with caution and requires team management to perform due diligence on these players, especially when a lot of money is involved. My own opinion is that JR will tell Hahn to go after Robert lkie a b1tch and that money will not be an issue. The Sox appear to be a perfect fit for this player. There are some things that make me more optimistic: - I do think JR is more cautious on Intl talents due to youth. That Robert is 19 years old makes him more likely to spend - Yes, sox have never signed someone over 68 million, but, Robert will not cost over 68 million - The CBA has already changed, so he has cost certainty moving forward in both the MLBAM draft and the INTL FA signings. As with signing Rodon over, I think it makes it more likely he plays outside his normal operating lines BUT, the white sox don't operate in a vacuum. Some other team just may want him more. I don't know that I'd pay Moncada money for robert, I probably would not. But then I'd hope we trade for a ful INTL slot to go after Otani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) There are some things that make me more optimistic: - I do think JR is more cautious on Intl talents due to youth. That Robert is 19 years old makes him more likely to spend - Yes, sox have never signed someone over 68 million, but, Robert will not cost over 68 million - The CBA has already changed, so he has cost certainty moving forward in both the MLBAM draft and the INTL FA signings. As with signing Rodon over, I think it makes it more likely he plays outside his normal operating lines BUT, the white sox don't operate in a vacuum. Some other team just may want him more. I don't know that I'd pay Moncada money for robert, I probably would not. But then I'd hope we trade for a ful INTL slot to go after Otani. Including the 100% tax it could be close (not that I think it will go that high). Edited April 21, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:49 AM) Including the 100% tax it could be close (not that I think it will go that high). I know I seem to be the bear for his market, but I just don't see it going much higher than $20 mill pre tax, and anything over that becomes considerable in terms of increments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) The Sox are one of only three teams to never hand out a contract greater than $70 million. How many of those contracts turned out well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 They did offer Samardzija in the the neighborhood of 80-90 million and went pretty far for Alex Gordon too. The Tanaka offer was for over $100 million as well I believe. They haven't signed any of these deals. They've been in that area though before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:58 AM) They did offer Samardzija in the the neighborhood of 80-90 million and went pretty far for Alex Gordon too. The Tanaka offer was for over $100 million as well I believe. They haven't signed any of these deals. They've been in that area though before. Thank the lord those didn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 07:45 AM) A better question is: "Do the Cardinals (or Pads or Reds) have an owner who is on record as being against spending money on prospects?" The Sox have spent much more on prospects recently. Look no further than the bonus paid to Carlos Rodon, and while it wasn't money, the Sox gave up some pretty darn significant assets this off season to acquire prospects. There is evidence that the mindset on prospects has changed a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:03 AM) Thank the lord those didn't work out. No kidding. That Gordon one looks bad so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:56 AM) How many of those contracts turned out well? The better question is how many of those contracts led the signing team to more trips to and success in the postseason? Because if you haven't noticed, this team is on its way to its ninth year since it made the playoffs, and will only have made it there (barely) once in the 12 years since 2005. So my point is, the strategy to avoid signing any contracts greater than $68 million, unlike 27 of the other MLB ball clubs have, has not resulted in success. And I would submit it's one of many reasons why the culture of losing continues to prevail at 35th and Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 09:58 AM) They did offer Samardzija in the the neighborhood of 80-90 million and went pretty far for Alex Gordon too. The Tanaka offer was for over $100 million as well I believe. They haven't signed any of these deals. They've been in that area though before. Do those offers really have anything to do with Robert though? Gordon and Shark were proven MLB talents and Tanaka was significantly older and more polished at the time of signing his contract than Robert is now. Plus the Sox were "all in" then and looking to sign guys that could help the MLB team win right away. Comparing those guys to Robert is apples to oranges IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:12 AM) Do those offers really have anything to do with Robert though? Gordon and Shark were proven MLB talents and Tanaka was significantly older and more polished at the time of signing his contract than Robert is now. Plus the Sox were "all in" then and looking to sign guys that could help the MLB team win right away. Comparing those guys to Robert is apples to oranges IMO. It was more to say they've offered contracts more than Abreu's in the past. People act like they won't pay more than $70 million for anyone ever and that's likely very untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 And the thread takes the inevitable turn to Jerry Reinsdorf culture of losing pissing match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:16 AM) And the thread takes the inevitable turn to Jerry Reinsdorf culture of losing pissing match. I'm sorry mags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:11 AM) The better question is how many of those contracts led the signing team to more trips to and success in the postseason? Because if you haven't noticed, this team is on its way to its ninth year since it made the playoffs, and will only have made it there (barely) once in the 12 years since 2005. So my point is, the strategy to avoid signing any contracts greater than $68 million, unlike 27 of the other MLB ball clubs have, has not resulted in success. And I would submit it's one of many reasons why the culture of losing continues to prevail at 35th and Shields. how many of the other 27 clubs have gone 9 years since making the playoffs as well? How many have not won a World Series since 2005? I guess you would include all of them in the culture of losing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:16 AM) And the thread takes the inevitable turn to Jerry Reinsdorf culture of losing pissing match. Of course. Sorry I took the bait again. I will stop now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:19 AM) I'm sorry mags. I shed a tear for all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:22 AM) Of course. Sorry I took the bait again. I will stop now. Wasn't a warning of any sort, just deep, personal dissatisfaction. I was hoping you all wanted to continue to read my different iterations of why the market will not be as rich as we think and why the white sox will sign. I still had many more ways to write basically the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Somewhere, White Sox ownership needs criticizing, and whenever, wherever, I will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 21, 2017 -> 10:24 AM) Wasn't a warning of any sort, just deep, personal dissatisfaction. I was hoping you all wanted to continue to read my different iterations of why the market will not be as rich as we think and why the white sox will sign. I still had many more ways to write basically the same thing. Personally, I agree and was trying to justify the reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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