2017 NFL Draft Thread

[Panerista]

Also, if you're in a bidding war with the f***ing Cleveland Browns over a QB, given their amazing history of QBs drafted, you should probably realize you're looking at the wrong guy.

This Browns FO didn't pick many of those QBs. The draft history is irrelevant.

 

Plus, I completely understand Ryan Pace wanting a quarterback. He's a Saints guy, after all.

[Soxbadger]

This Browns FO didn't pick many of those QBs. The draft history is irrelevant.

 

Plus, I completely understand Ryan Pace wanting a quarterback. He's a Saints guy, after all.

 

And ironically the Saints QB was picked in the 2nd round after the Chargers traded down so another team could pick Vick.

 

Chargers ended up with Brees/ LT.

 

(edit)

 

That being said, after looking at that trade at least the Bears didnt get raked over the coals for the trade.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Soxbadger

[bmags]

I'm a Titans fan but have family who are Bears fans...

 

If you're getting an undisputed stud QB -- polished, experienced, intangibles, great arm, etc. -- by all means, trade up at any cost to get a guy you can say with >85% certainty will be AT LEAST a serviceable QB for years to come. Mitch Trubisky is not, in any way, that player. We're talking about a guy who is a 2nd or 3rd rounder in most draft years who was the SECOND OVERALL PICK! That's insane. Much less that the Bears traded 4 valuable picks to have the honor of getting a guy with a ceiling of mediocrity and the floor of a career third-string journeyman. I'm not a UNC fan but saw plenty of Trubisky last season to form a reasonable opinion of his abilities. This justification with statements like, "IF he becomes a franchise QB, blah blah blah..."......look, this guy does not have the talent to be a "franchise QB".

 

Awful, awful, awful move.

 

Yeah, no. He would be a first rounder in every draft. My reasoning: every previous NFL Draft.

[Rowand44]

Yeah, no. He would be a first rounder in every draft. My reasoning: every previous NFL Draft.

Ya, I don't think there's any doubt about that.

[Soxbadger]

Yeah, no. He would be a first rounder in every draft. My reasoning: every previous NFL Draft.

 

Well this is impossible to guess at but I think youre wrong.

 

2001, only 1 QB was picked in first (Vick) Brees went in 2nd.

 

2005, 3 QBs taken in 1st (Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell), unclear if hed grade out above Campbell.

 

Lets go more recent.

 

2016- probably comparable to Paxton Lynch, may have been late 1st, maybe early 2nd.

 

2015- May have been late first, but graded out under Mariotta/Winston.

 

2014- Better than Carr/Garrapolo? Unclear so likely 2nd.

 

2013- Definitely would have been 1st. This class is most comparable to this years.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

 

The issue is that this is one of the weakest drafts at QB since 2013. I think 2013 is worse, but again not one QB went in the top 10 that year.

 

This is entirely speculative, but I think that in 2014 Trubisky would have absolutely been a 2nd rounder at best.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Soxbadger

[mmmmmbeeer]

This Browns FO didn't pick many of those QBs. The draft history is irrelevant.

 

Plus, I completely understand Ryan Pace wanting a quarterback. He's a Saints guy, after all.

 

Same crap ownership.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Well this is impossible to guess at but I think youre wrong.

 

2001, only 1 QB was picked in first (Vick) Brees went in 2nd.

 

2005, 3 QBs taken in 1st (Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell), unclear if hed grade out above Campbell.

 

Lets go more recent.

 

2016- probably comparable to Paxton Lynch, may have been late 1st, maybe early 2nd.

 

2015- May have been late first, but graded out under Mariotta/Winston.

 

2014- Better than Carr/Garrapolo? Unclear so likely 2nd.

 

2013- Definitely would have been 1st. This class is most comparable to this years.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

 

The issue is that this is one of the weakest drafts at QB since 2013. I think 2013 is worse, but again not one QB went in the top 10 that year.

 

This is entirely speculative, but I think that in 2014 Trubisky would have absolutely been a 2nd rounder at best.

 

 

What this guy said

 

 

[mmmmmbeeer]

Also, I get the whole idea of drafting a guy ahead of slot due to the needs of the franchise. I about flipped my s*** when TEN drafted Davis 5 overall as I thought that was waaaayyy too early, then I saw the only other 2 decent (3 if you count McCaffrey) WR go right after us in the top 10 picks. That said, TEN didn't trade away 4 draft picks for that privilege.

[Sonik22]

Also, I get the whole idea of drafting a guy ahead of slot due to the needs of the franchise. I about flipped my s*** when TEN drafted Davis 5 overall as I thought that was waaaayyy too early, then I saw the only other 2 decent (3 if you count McCaffrey) WR go right after us in the top 10 picks. That said, TEN didn't trade away 4 draft picks for that privilege.

 

Also helps the Titans had the other 1st Round pick to address their need later in a secondary stacked draft. I liked that pick a lot at 5.

 

Kinda like the Saints did as well, except they hit the lottery with Lattimore at that pick. He should have been off the board before that.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Sonik22

[Soxbadger]

Also, I get the whole idea of drafting a guy ahead of slot due to the needs of the franchise. I about flipped my s*** when TEN drafted Davis 5 overall as I thought that was waaaayyy too early, then I saw the only other 2 decent (3 if you count McCaffrey) WR go right after us in the top 10 picks. That said, TEN didn't trade away 4 draft picks for that privilege.

 

Davis was my favorite WR in this draft. I think hes the least likely to completely bust out and at worst is going to be a solid WR.

 

As for Trubisky, as a Bears fan I hope that I am really wrong. Losing 3/4ths wont sick a franchise, it just makes it so the margin of error is much less. I like middle round picks because they are the perfect places to take fliers on guys who could be home runs, if they miss, its nothing. Which is why I have always been a fan of trading down in the first to accumulate picks.

 

 

[shipps]

Well this is impossible to guess at but I think youre wrong.

 

2001, only 1 QB was picked in first (Vick) Brees went in 2nd.

 

2005, 3 QBs taken in 1st (Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell), unclear if hed grade out above Campbell.

 

Lets go more recent.

 

2016- probably comparable to Paxton Lynch, may have been late 1st, maybe early 2nd.

 

2015- May have been late first, but graded out under Mariotta/Winston.

 

2014- Better than Carr/Garrapolo? Unclear so likely 2nd.

 

2013- Definitely would have been 1st. This class is most comparable to this years.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

 

The issue is that this is one of the weakest drafts at QB since 2013. I think 2013 is worse, but again not one QB went in the top 10 that year.

 

This is entirely speculative, but I think that in 2014 Trubisky would have absolutely been a 2nd rounder at best.

 

Nice effort but this doesnt prove much at all, like you said its impossible to guess at.

[bmags]

5-8 teams every year "could take" a QB, and when they have a first round grade on them, they get very antsy to get them before the second.

 

Tall athletic males with strong arms and good accuracy in a power 5 conference who succeeded in non-super-gimmicky offenses, and have no character concerns, tend to go in the first round. Many that fail at one or two of those but have a strong arm go in the first anyway. But if you check all of those boxes you are certainly going first round. A reminder that Tim Tebow was a first round pick!

 

If there is a deep QB draft with 5 first round grades and seemingly only 3 teams looking, 5 will get drafted.

 

I'm sure there is an outlier but QBs people expect to go in the first go in the first, and QBs people expect to go in the second also often go in the first.

 

 

[shipps]

5-8 teams every year "could take" a QB, and when they have a first round grade on them, they get very antsy to get them before the second.

 

Tall athletic males with strong arms and good accuracy in a power 5 conference who succeeded in non-super-gimmicky offenses, and have no character concerns, tend to go in the first round. Many that fail at one or two of those but have a strong arm go in the first anyway. But if you check all of those boxes you are certainly going first round. A reminder that Tim Tebow was a first round pick!

 

If there is a deep QB draft with 5 first round grades and seemingly only 3 teams looking, 5 will get drafted.

 

I'm sure there is an outlier but QBs people expect to go in the first go in the first, and QBs people expect to go in the second also often go in the first.

 

What this guy said.

[southsider2k5]

5-8 teams every year "could take" a QB, and when they have a first round grade on them, they get very antsy to get them before the second.

 

Tall athletic males with strong arms and good accuracy in a power 5 conference who succeeded in non-super-gimmicky offenses, and have no character concerns, tend to go in the first round. Many that fail at one or two of those but have a strong arm go in the first anyway. But if you check all of those boxes you are certainly going first round. A reminder that Tim Tebow was a first round pick!

 

If there is a deep QB draft with 5 first round grades and seemingly only 3 teams looking, 5 will get drafted.

 

I'm sure there is an outlier but QBs people expect to go in the first go in the first, and QBs people expect to go in the second also often go in the first.

 

Yep.

[LittleHurt05]

Nice effort but this doesnt prove much at all, like you said its impossible to guess at.

 

Yup. AS they say, it only takes one. Christian Ponder was a top-15 pick. I think there was a league-wide consensus "WTF?" when that pick was made.

[Soxbadger]

I like how instead of actually looking at the facts, we just say "lots of QBs get drafted in the first round."

 

As I pointed out, in Vick's draft only 1 QB was drafted, Brees went in the 2nd. In Peyton's draft class only 2 were picked (1/2). In Rodgers draft, only 3 went in the 1st. Last years draft 3 went.

 

The idea that 5 QBs are getting picked in the first round every year is pretty unusual. Even in Luck's year (what was considered a deep class) only 4 were selected.

 

I think right now Bears fans are talking themselves into Trubisky. Not saying that Trubisky may not turn out to be a HOF, just (imo) he wasnt even the best prospect in college last year. Unfortunately for the Bears those QBs arent available this year.

 

 

[Panerista]

I like how instead of actually looking at the facts, we just say "lots of QBs get drafted in the first round."

 

As I pointed out, in Vick's draft only 1 QB was drafted, Brees went in the 2nd. In Peyton's draft class only 2 were picked (1/2). In Rodgers draft, only 3 went in the 1st. Last years draft 3 went.

 

The idea that 5 QBs are getting picked in the first round every year is pretty unusual. Even in Luck's year (what was considered a deep class) only 4 were selected.

 

I think right now Bears fans are talking themselves into Trubisky. Not saying that Trubisky may not turn out to be a HOF, just (imo) he wasnt even the best prospect in college last year. Unfortunately for the Bears those QBs arent available this year.

3 is the norm now. Sorry, but Vick and Manning's drafts are no longer "modern NFL"

[bmags]

I like how instead of actually looking at the facts, we just say "lots of QBs get drafted in the first round."

 

As I pointed out, in Vick's draft only 1 QB was drafted, Brees went in the 2nd. In Peyton's draft class only 2 were picked (1/2). In Rodgers draft, only 3 went in the 1st. Last years draft 3 went.

 

The idea that 5 QBs are getting picked in the first round every year is pretty unusual. Even in Luck's year (what was considered a deep class) only 4 were selected.

 

I think right now Bears fans are talking themselves into Trubisky. Not saying that Trubisky may not turn out to be a HOF, just (imo) he wasnt even the best prospect in college last year. Unfortunately for the Bears those QBs arent available this year.

 

I'm not saying "Qbs get drafted in the first round" I'm saying first round graded qbs get drafted in the first round.

 

If there are 10 1st round graded offensive lineman, I would say that it is likely 3-4 drop to the 2nd.

 

But QBs are different. They don't fall out of the first just because they are in a deep class. Teams have a way of making room for them.

[Soxbadger]

I'm not saying "Qbs get drafted in the first round" I'm saying first round graded qbs get drafted in the first round.

 

If there are 10 1st round graded offensive lineman, I would say that it is likely 3-4 drop to the 2nd.

 

But QBs are different. They don't fall out of the first just because they are in a deep class. Teams have a way of making room for them.

 

I dont think hed have had a first round grade if he was in another class. I think his grade is based on scarcity and the idea that the top QBs get boosted grades. With this class being really weak at QB, all of the QBs got boosted grades because no matter what some team is going to pick a QB.

 

That being said, many places had him graded as a 2nd round pick. I think (in this class) he should have gone mid first. But as a Bears fan, Id rather have had them go a different direction, pick Peterman from Pitt and then maybe get a shot at a QB in next years class.

 

But thats just my opinion.

 

 

[shipps]

I dont think hed have had a first round grade if he was in another class. I think his grade is based on scarcity and the idea that the top QBs get boosted grades. With this class being really weak at QB, all of the QBs got boosted grades because no matter what some team is going to pick a QB.

 

That being said, many places had him graded as a 2nd round pick. I think (in this class) he should have gone mid first. But as a Bears fan, Id rather have had them go a different direction, pick Peterman from Pitt and then maybe get a shot at a QB in next years class.

 

But thats just my opinion.

 

Where have you seen that? Nowhere have I seen him graded as a second.

 

And you want them to waste the oh so valuable 2-3nd rd pick on Peterman as a throw away (just to show that you are trying to draft a QB at least) because he certainly isnt rated higher than Trubisky just to put off getting "THE GUY" next year possibly?

[Soxbadger]

Where have you seen that? Nowhere have I seen him graded as a second.

 

And you want them to waste the oh so valuable 2-3nd rd pick on Peterman as a throw away (just to show that you are trying to draft a QB at least) because he certainly isnt rated higher than Trubisky just to put off getting "THE GUY" next year possibly?

 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php

 

Trubisky has more of a second-round-caliber skill set, but what teams love about him his accuracy in the short to intermediate part of the field. They also feel he was the most consistent quarterback in the 2017 NFL Draft. Some teams have had second-day grades on many quarterbacks who ended up going as top-32 picks. Sources from three different teams told me they graded Trubisky in Round 2, but other teams have him graded as a first-rounder. One playoff general manager told WalterFootball.com that they rate Trubisky the highest because he has the tools to play with accuracy and athleticism.

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php#...TydP3fVvHkdk.99

 

I can find more if you like.

 

And the reason why Peterman makes more sense is because in football it is all about depth and most assets possible. I like Peterman, to me you can get him for a cheap price and there is a possibility he is the best QB in the draft. That is the type of value Russel Wilson presented years ago or Dak Prescott last year. Not saying that every guy like that pans out, but not every 1st round pick does either. In fact right now, a bunch of HOF Qbs werent picked top 5, Brady, Brees were both outside of 1st round and Rodgers was back half of the first.

 

Sure you get guys like Manning, Luck, etc, but those guys had years of tape to go over. Trubisky has 1 season, did not play in a pro-offense and played almost no snaps under center. I mean best hope is Cam Newton comparison, but he isnt nearly as physical.

 

Again this is all just my personal opinion based on what Ive seen. Sometimes Im right, sometimes Im wrong.

 

[shipps]

http://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php

 

Trubisky has more of a second-round-caliber skill set, but what teams love about him his accuracy in the short to intermediate part of the field. They also feel he was the most consistent quarterback in the 2017 NFL Draft. Some teams have had second-day grades on many quarterbacks who ended up going as top-32 picks. Sources from three different teams told me they graded Trubisky in Round 2, but other teams have him graded as a first-rounder. One playoff general manager told WalterFootball.com that they rate Trubisky the highest because he has the tools to play with accuracy and athleticism.

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php#...TydP3fVvHkdk.99

 

I can find more if you like.

 

And the reason why Peterman makes more sense is because in football it is all about depth and most assets possible. I like Peterman, to me you can get him for a cheap price and there is a possibility he is the best QB in the draft. That is the type of value Russel Wilson presented years ago or Dak Prescott last year. Not saying that every guy like that pans out, but not every 1st round pick does either. In fact right now, a bunch of HOF Qbs werent picked top 5, Brady, Brees were both outside of 1st round and Rodgers was back half of the first.

 

Sure you get guys like Manning, Luck, etc, but those guys had years of tape to go over. Trubisky has 1 season, did not play in a pro-offense and played almost no snaps under center. I mean best hope is Cam Newton comparison, but he isnt nearly as physical.

 

Again this is all just my personal opinion based on what Ive seen. Sometimes Im right, sometimes Im wrong.

 

So you give me some source called walterfootball who mentions that he thinks Trubisky has more of a second round skill set and in the same post you try to tell me you think Peterman has the possibility as the best QB in the draft by which that same walterfootball said could potentially be a developmental backup.

 

Jesus we just arent going to agree soxbadger. Its cool.

[SexiAlexei]

But as a Bears fan, Id rather have had them go a different direction, pick Peterman from Pitt and then maybe get a shot at a QB in next years class.

 

This is my major complaint with what the Bears did. They picked a project who shouldn't see the field this year. That means at best the guy will start in 2018.

 

They should have taken BPA, which I think was Adams at the time.

 

They have not done anything to improve themselves this year, so they will most likely be picking at the top of next year's draft, where there are legit QB prospects.

 

So now, when the Bears are picking at the top of the 2018 draft, and Rosen or Darnold are staring them in the face, they're going to pass because they have a project QB who will hopefully not have taken the field yet. It makes no sense to me, and I'll be just as disappointed next year when they pass on true prospects.

[bmags]

Then next year if they are terrible they can trade back and get 2 first round picks and everyone will be so happy.

 

If they pick Adams, he may be great, but he'd immediately be one of the highest paid safeties in the league. So when we are talking about value, that's also an issue. It's like taking a 1b in the top tfive of the baseball draft.

[southsider2k5]

I like how instead of actually looking at the facts, we just say "lots of QBs get drafted in the first round."

 

As I pointed out, in Vick's draft only 1 QB was drafted, Brees went in the 2nd. In Peyton's draft class only 2 were picked (1/2). In Rodgers draft, only 3 went in the 1st. Last years draft 3 went.

 

The idea that 5 QBs are getting picked in the first round every year is pretty unusual. Even in Luck's year (what was considered a deep class) only 4 were selected.

 

I think right now Bears fans are talking themselves into Trubisky. Not saying that Trubisky may not turn out to be a HOF, just (imo) he wasnt even the best prospect in college last year. Unfortunately for the Bears those QBs arent available this year.

 

Guys like Ponder and Tebow getting drafted in the first round are two great examples of QBs getting drafted higher than their ratings.