2017 NFL Draft Thread

[LittleHurt05]

Bears just signed OL Taylor Boggs

 

All the D2 players!!!!

[bmags]

It all depends on who/what you believe. Rapaport was just on the Score and said there was absolutely another team pushing the 49ers for their pick, King says the Bears got played. According to the value chart, the Bears didnt overpay, and it was on par with what the Eagles gave up for Wentz(who threw 9 more college passes than Trubisky), but some people think the value chart is more of a guide and not really a bible.

 

Everyone has said it, Trubisky is Pace's horse, we just have to see if he was worth it.

 

I really don't read that. I take what he is saying as he doesn't think the 2nd team would have ponied up what would have been significantly more due to the bigger drop for SF. There was definite interest, but what they offered the Bears was basically we'll stop fielding calls for a 4th round pick, after they already agreed to 2 thirds. That's not a crazy heist.

[bmags]

OK, what the hell:

 

 

 

Why on earth is this understanding already out there, before the draft begins? Pace played his intentions before the cards were dealt. He opened the door for Lynch to drum up some fake interest in the 2nd pick, knowing full well that Pace was willing to pay more for it. What a colossal, moronic mistake by Pace.

 

That is incredibly common. There is not that much time between picks for long negotiations.

[GoSox05]

49ers generally seemed confused as to what the Bears were trying to do.

 

Lynch just seemed happy to be getting all those picks.

[Jenksismyhero]

That is incredibly common. There is not that much time between picks for long negotiations.

 

There were 70ish trades in this draft. The vast majority were spontaneous. There is plenty of time to get a deal done.

 

It was moronic for Pace to tell Lynch that he'd be willing to offer "at least" two 3rd round picks before the draft started. If that's the way Pace wanted to go, you call up Lynch in the moment and ask him what it would take. All Pace accomplished was letting Lynch know he could drive up the price because he knew how much Pace wanted to trade up.

[Kyyle23]

You are relying on 2nd/3rd hand accounts of what was discussed on draft day though, we have no idea what was discussed leading up to draft day nor do we have any idea what Pace was offered for the 3rd pick, which could have driven him to say what you think he said

[bmags]

There were 70ish trades in this draft. The vast majority were spontaneous. There is plenty of time to get a deal done.

 

It was moronic for Pace to tell Lynch that he'd be willing to offer "at least" two 3rd round picks before the draft started. If that's the way Pace wanted to go, you call up Lynch in the moment and ask him what it would take. All Pace accomplished was letting Lynch know he could drive up the price because he knew how much Pace wanted to trade up.

 

There is a difference between the top 5, and trading down in the 4th when you are talking about single pick sums.

 

How do you think people knew certain teams wanted to trade up and down? You think they don't set baselines?

 

 

[Soxbadger]

There were 70ish trades in this draft. The vast majority were spontaneous. There is plenty of time to get a deal done.

 

It was moronic for Pace to tell Lynch that he'd be willing to offer "at least" two 3rd round picks before the draft started. If that's the way Pace wanted to go, you call up Lynch in the moment and ask him what it would take. All Pace accomplished was letting Lynch know he could drive up the price because he knew how much Pace wanted to trade up.

 

You mean that if I called you and said that:

 

"Ill settle this case for at least $50k" you are going to counter with something more than $50k?

 

 

Now that there has been some time to actually think about what happened, I think the most concerning parts are as follows:

 

1) It does not seem that the Bears have a real plan. If Trubisky was the guy, he was the guy before they signed Glennon. Having Glennon and Trubisky on the roster doesnt really create a good "heir apparent situation".

 

2) Fox/Pace dont seem to be on the same page. If you are planning to pick a QB to hitch your wagon to, you really want a situation where GM, HC, OC, QB coach are all on the same page before the draft. From what Ive seen, it appears Fox had no idea, so my guess is neither did the OC or the QB Coach. These are the guys you want input from, because they are the ones who will have to train Trubisky.

 

3) A lot of high risk/reward picks. Had the Bears traded down accumulated picks, high risk guys are great. But when you dont, then you potentially get really thin really fast if those guys dont pan out.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

You are relying on 2nd/3rd hand accounts of what was discussed on draft day though, we have no idea what was discussed leading up to draft day nor do we have any idea what Pace was offered for the 3rd pick, which could have driven him to say what you think he said

 

I'm relying on what Peter King was told directly by the negotiating parties. My issue is that Pace made an offer that Lynch knew wasn't the final offer. Pace let it be known (1) what he wanted, (2) that he wanted it really badly and (3) he was willing to pay even more than what he offered.

[Jenksismyhero]

There is a difference between the top 5, and trading down in the 4th when you are talking about single pick sums.

 

How do you think people knew certain teams wanted to trade up and down? You think they don't set baselines?

 

I guess, but at the end of the day those trades are still made in time.

 

I'm not saying he shouldn't have made a call to gauge interest in the 49ers trading out of 2 before the draft, but it seemed really stupid to have a deal in place, especially when that deal was "i'll offer you at least this!" If you're Lynch you now hold all the cards in the negotiation. At least in the moment on draft day he may not be able to call back and demand more. It's a s*** or get off the pot situation. But he didn't have to worry at all because he already knew that Pace was going to offer him something AND he was going to be ok giving up more.

Edited May 1, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[Kyyle23]

@dkurtenbach

 

Lynch just said that there were other teams involved in trade negotiations for the No. 2 pick. He gave the Bears a chance to beat it.

[Dick Allen]

Of course there were other teams. The Bears were getting the same calls.

 

It's amazing people think the Bears would be fielding calls about moving up, saying no, and these wouldn't even bother with the 49ers, or that Pace is so dumb, no one was calling him to move up but he thought everyone was calling SF.

 

If you want to make a big deal about moving up 1 spot isn't a big deal, you can't have it both ways. If teams were interested in moving up to 3, they probably were interested in moving up to 2.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Jenksismyhero]

And guys like Mike Lombardi have asked around and can't find anyone that made those calls. So someone is lying somewhere.

[Soxbadger]

And guys like Mike Lombardi have asked around and can't find anyone that made those calls. So someone is lying somewhere.

 

No one is lying but I think its 2 different scenarios going on:

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/01/san-fra...ster-peter-king

 

No nerves, but no pleasantries either. Marathe, who talks very fast and with great confidence, called another team with interest in the second slot and said, “We got some good action on the pick.” Marathe talked to the club official (he would not disclose the official, or the team) for maybe a minute, just to crystallize that if Garrett was there at two, the Niners would either pick or take a ransom for the pick.

 

I would say that there were offers for 2, but those offers were if Garrett was there, once Garrett wasnt there, it was only the Bears and thus:

 

“See if we can get one last thing with Chicago,” Lynch said to Marathe.

Marathe called the Bears. “To try to solidify this now,” Marathe said to Pace, “we’re gonna need a little bit more to finish. It wouldn’t have to be much. Like, your four.

 

If those quotes are accurate (imo) you can tell that the 49ers dont have another offer. It just seems like fishing to get a little bit more. IE My client is offering $10k, they are offering $11k and I say "Any chance you can do $10,500". At that point I am almost certainly going to take the $11k deal if they say no, but its worth it just to see if I can squeeze that little bit.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Soxbadger

[ptatc]

At the very least, it allows the Bears not to rush Trubisky. They weren't going to win anything anyway in 2017. Free agency was quantity not quality. They are playing for 2018, and probably at least one of Pace/Fox won't be there, maybe both.

This is the key. They drafted for 2018 so you would assume the Bears ownership told Pace he will be back for at least that time. The first two picks need at least 1 year before they will be ready. The RB may need the year to recover from the injury.

[Kyyle23]

This is the key. They drafted for 2018 so you would assume the Bears ownership told Pace he will be back for at least that time. The first two picks need at least 1 year before they will be ready. The RB may need the year to recover from the injury.

 

I assume you mean DB(Jackson) unless I missed something that happened to Cohen between the combine and the draft

[ptatc]

That Trubisky trade is so dumb. They gave up THREE additional picks to move up ONE spot when it wasn't even certain that SF would take him or that there was a better offer for that pick.

 

Trading additional picks is the last thing the Bears should be doing right now. Putting all their chips into Trubisky when they have so many other needs is absolutely baffling to me.

If you go by the "points chart" that most teams use, those three picks equal a second round pick.

[ptatc]

I assume you mean DB(Jackson) unless I missed something that happened to Cohen between the combine and the draft

Yes. Hit the wrong key.

[Brian]

And guys like Mike Lombardi have asked around and can't find anyone that made those calls. So someone is lying somewhere.

 

Do you think a team would admit to inquiring about moving up if asked by a reporter after the fact? Some probably would, some probably wouldn't, IMO

[Soxfest]

And guys like Mike Lombardi have asked around and can't find anyone that made those calls. So someone is lying somewhere.

Lynch is not going to bury Pace, because he wants too fleece him again.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Soxfest

[southsider2k5]

Do you think a team would admit to inquiring about moving up if asked by a reporter after the fact? Some probably would, some probably wouldn't, IMO

 

This. Absolutely 100% true. The one thing in the back of my head is the Bears being at #3 had to have heard from almost all of the same teams at 3, as SF did at 2. Maybe it was those calls that convinced the Bears that someone really wanted the QB. I can't imagine they would just make it up out of no where.

[Dick Allen]

This. Absolutely 100% true. The one thing in the back of my head is the Bears being at #3 had to have heard from almost all of the same teams at 3, as SF did at 2. Maybe it was those calls that convinced the Bears that someone really wanted the QB. I can't imagine they would just make it up out of no where.

Especially because it seemed the Bears picking a QB surprised everyone. The Bears made it seem like they wanted to move down, so they knew who exactly was looking to move up to draft the QB.

 

People might not have liked the pick, or the amount Pace paid to move up. But thinking they were bidding against themselves and no one was looking to move up is ignoring a lot. No one thought the Bears would draft a QB, therefore, they knew just about every team that was looking to move up to draft one.

[Soxbadger]

This. Absolutely 100% true. The one thing in the back of my head is the Bears being at #3 had to have heard from almost all of the same teams at 3, as SF did at 2. Maybe it was those calls that convinced the Bears that someone really wanted the QB. I can't imagine they would just make it up out of no where.

 

Well I think we can definitely assume that KC and Houston were trying to trade up. (Well just use a random chart as reference) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft...ft-trade-chart/

 

 

KC's offer was worth 680 (27) + 136 (91) + next years first (this is not on the chart but lets presume its worth the least amount which is 590= 1,406 (Chart values 10 as 1,300 so its close.)

 

The 49ers pick is worth approximately 2,600. In order for KC to move up that far, theyd have had to throw in the equivalent of almost 2 more 1st rounders. Which is why many wanted the Bears to use the 3 to move down.

 

IE If KC wanted to move up you were looking at something like

 

Bears #3 (2,200) for KC 1st (680), 2nd this year (310) and 1st (590), 2nd (270) next year is only 1,850 so theyd likely have gotten an additional 3rd in the next year plus. As someone who almost always proposes trading down, its hard to pass up 2 1sts, 2 2nds plus when you are a team that is likely to be terrible.

 

Again no way to know if anyone was offering anything close, but if they werent then Bears were bidding against themselves, if they were then Bears could have gotten a huge haul to move down.

[Dick Allen]

The Bears knew what they could get for the #3 pick, so they should have had some idea what it would cost for #2.

 

Unless you really think Ryan Pace is a total idiot, he had more information than anyone on this, and he paid what he had to pay to secure Trubisky.

[Soxbadger]

The Bears knew what they could get for the #3 pick, so they should have had some idea what it would cost for #2.

 

Unless you really think Ryan Pace is a total idiot, he had more information than anyone on this, and he paid what he had to pay to secure Trubisky.

 

I absolutely think Pace had more information than I do, which is why I said: "If people were offering fair value for the Bears pick, I would have traded down and taken the 2 1sts, 2 2nds, plus."

 

Thats just personal opinion though. After reading Ptatc's comment above, I think the deal more had to do with what time Pace thought he had left. If he thinks he has at most a 2 year leash, he cant stockpile picks for next year because hell be gone by the time they produce.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Soxbadger