Selling at the deadline: Renteria and locker room reaction

[dspellacy]

Obviously it would be hard to expect the team to keep up this great start. That being said I think we can expect maybe a tampered down version of this play until we start trading off players. My thought is: say we are only 2-3 games back in the division at the deadline and we proceed to gut the team. What does that do to the locker room and how does Renteria keep the remaining guys up and motivated? As a fan I understand and want the rebuild but we heard from the players in the offseason about how they were sick of hearing about rebuild and how they thought we could be good this year. These guys are professionals and know these things were coming but if I was a player I'd be frustrated to get into contention and then have front office gut the team. It's an unusual spot to be in and i wonder what some of the conversations are like right now. It will be an interesting job for Renteria the rest of the year. I can't imagine he'd be thrilled about it either but i think he knew what he was getting into when he took the job that this was coming. I don't think anyone at the start of the year thought we'd be having this conversation but here we are one month in and are in first place!

[reiks12]

Well it was a smart move by Hahn then to publicly state before the season started that this is a rebuilding team and a good start wasn't going to change that.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Well let's say they trade Frazier and bring up Moncada, moving Saladino to third. It can be argued that move may actually improve the team in the present as well as the future. Say they trade Holland or Gonzales but one of their young pitchers is doing well in the minors. They would be replacing the departed pitcher from within plus be adding to the organization with the return from the trade.

 

Trading Melky would be a little trickier unless they get a young outfielder back that's just about ready to play in the major leagues.

 

Sox are in a good position as long as Hahn does it right. However, if he just starts haphazardly gutting the team for low level prospects that are years away while having nothing to replace what they traded, it will be a move backward. Hahn needs to hold out for value and be prepared to keep his players if the right price is not met.

[ChiSox59]

Well let's say they trade Frazier and bring up Moncada, moving Saladino to third. It can be argued that move may actually improve the team in the present as well as the future. Say they trade Holland or Gonzales but one of their young pitchers is doing well in the minors. They would be replacing the departed pitcher from within plus be adding to the organization with the return from the trade.

 

Trading Melky would be a little trickier unless they get a young outfielder back that's just about ready to play in the major leagues.

 

Sox are in a good position as long as Hahn does it right. However, if he just starts haphazardly gutting the team for low level prospects that are years away while having nothing to replace what they traded, it will be a move backward. Hahn needs to hold out for value and be prepared to keep his players if the right price is not met.

 

This. All depends on the returns.

 

By all means trade if you get impact young talent. But of this team is contending, trading the impending FA for garbage that is never going to make the big leagues does nothing for me.

 

But we still have a long way to go before we're at that point.

 

[caulfield12]

We have legit replacements in the minors for most positions.

 

The biggest issue would be replacing Cabrera in LF...the DH position could feasibly be improved with Delmonico or Hayes...and CF. Not to mention Willy Garcia or Rymer Liriano. Potentially Tilson, though not counting on it.

 

Robertson/Jones=Burdi, Fulmer, Lopez, Kopech

Q, Gonzo, Holland, Shields=Same list, possibly adding Giolito and Danish

 

Frazier=Saladino

Saladino=Moncada

 

It's hard to see any move other than trading Q or Rodon being a move that can't be overcome. And, for now, they've survived without much from either of those two guys. Enough to lead the majors in ERA.

[greg775]

Obviously it would be hard to expect the team to keep up this great start. That being said I think we can expect maybe a tampered down version of this play until we start trading off players. My thought is: say we are only 2-3 games back in the division at the deadline and we proceed to gut the team. What does that do to the locker room and how does Renteria keep the remaining guys up and motivated? As a fan I understand and want the rebuild but we heard from the players in the offseason about how they were sick of hearing about rebuild and how they thought we could be good this year. These guys are professionals and know these things were coming but if I was a player I'd be frustrated to get into contention and then have front office gut the team. It's an unusual spot to be in and i wonder what some of the conversations are like right now. It will be an interesting job for Renteria the rest of the year. I can't imagine he'd be thrilled about it either but i think he knew what he was getting into when he took the job that this was coming. I don't think anyone at the start of the year thought we'd be having this conversation but here we are one month in and are in first place!

Nobody cares about the locker room. Nobody cares about being in first place. If the Sox are 1-2 out near the trading deadline, people will be dying to trade all the usual suspects for prospects. It's the rebuild that the vocal fans care about, not some quest for a weak division title. It's just the way it is. The new wave statniks love this rebuild and that's that. The Sox will trade off everybody they can even if they happened to be 2-3 games in first near the deadline. Rebuilding is IN right now.

Personally I want to win and scrap the alleged rebuild. The reality is the Royals blow chunks, the Tigers suck, the Twins suck and Cleveland is great.

Edited April 30, 2017 by greg775

[Panerista]

Nobody cares about the locker room. Nobody cares about being in first place. If the Sox are 1-2 out near the trading deadline, people will be dying to trade all the usual suspects for prospects. It's the rebuild that the vocal fans care about, not some quest for a weak division title. It's just the way it is. The new wave statniks love this rebuild and that's that. The Sox will trade off everybody they can even if they happened to be 2-3 games in first near the deadline. Rebuilding is IN right now.

Personally I want to win and scrap the alleged rebuild. The reality is the Royals blow chunks, the Tigers suck, the Twins suck and Cleveland is great.

Because the goal of baseball isn't to be a winner for one year in a decade. The goal is to build talent in your farm system so that you have young, cost controlled talent. THEN you use free agency to fill the holes and try to win the World Series for a wide open window of time.

 

It pains me how simple you are sometimes. Rebuilding is in because rebuilding works. The "going for it" nonsense works once every five years if you're lucky.

 

And you're damn right no one cares about this locker room. We know what this is, and we're still not 23-10 yet (not that it mattered last year)

Edited April 30, 2017 by Sox-35th

[hi8is]

Please

 

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[Panerista]

Please

 

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OP is making a kind of silly argument about how trading away players will damage the locker room or something.

 

It's silly because if we trade all the right guys, we get a whole new locker room.

 

And our prospects aren't dumb. They know why the White Sox moved a staff Ace and an All Star outfielder to acquire them.

[dspellacy]

OP is making a kind of silly argument about how trading away players will damage the locker room or something.

 

It's silly because if we trade all the right guys, we get a whole new locker room.

 

And our prospects aren't dumb. They know why the White Sox moved a staff Ace and an All Star outfielder to acquire them.

 

 

New to the board but I clearly see you play the role of 'internet tough guy' around here. Thanks for your participation in the discussion

[dspellacy]

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Will do typing on a smart phone thanks

[caulfield12]

It's actually healthy for our prospects to have an incentive to push the veterans.

 

Guys like Kahnle, Swarzak, Garcia, Davidson, Saladino, Omar and Leury are getting extended opportunities.

 

Let's go back to the worst trait of Ozzie/Ventura teams...too many over the hill veterans content with their situations, complacency, and not enough talent at the minor league level to push them out.

 

Look at the Sox roster from 2012 to today...Q I think is the longest tenured now, unless you count Saladino's time in the minors as well.

[Lip Man 1]

Nobody cares about the locker room. Nobody cares about being in first place. If the Sox are 1-2 out near the trading deadline, people will be dying to trade all the usual suspects for prospects. It's the rebuild that the vocal fans care about, not some quest for a weak division title. It's just the way it is. The new wave statniks love this rebuild and that's that. The Sox will trade off everybody they can even if they happened to be 2-3 games in first near the deadline. Rebuilding is IN right now.

Personally I want to win and scrap the alleged rebuild. The reality is the Royals blow chunks, the Tigers suck, the Twins suck and Cleveland is great.

 

Personally... I want to win MULTIPLE YEARS IN A ROW (Something the Sox have never done in franchise history as in actually making the playoffs in consecutive years).

 

Personally... I don't want to see the Sox go through a 10 year stretch like they did from 2006-2016. Three winning seasons in 10 years, no consecutive winning seasons since 2003-2006, One playoff appearance since 2005.

 

Personally... I saw enough that the system of having several very good players and the bulk of the roster made up of basically trash was NOT working.

 

Since ownership isn't going to change and the front office isn't, so long as ownership stays the same and since it's idiotic to keep trying the same failed approach time after time and expect anything different and since ownership isn't going to spend 150 million for the top free agent talent AND to provide good depth...this is the best that could be done under those limitations.

 

But that's just my personal opinion. LOL.

 

Mark

 

[hi8is]

Will do typing on a smart phone thanks

I dig your user name, by the way hombre.

 

There's a lot of asses around here ( the guy typing being one. ) I'm more of the jack ass variety - stick around and you'll see.

[Thad Bosley]

Because the goal of baseball isn't to be a winner for one year in a decade. The goal is to build talent in your farm system so that you have young, cost controlled talent. THEN you use free agency to fill the holes and try to win the World Series for a wide open window of time.

 

It pains me how simple you are sometimes. Rebuilding is in because rebuilding works. The "going for it" nonsense works once every five years if you're lucky.

 

And you're damn right no one cares about this locker room. We know what this is, and we're still not 23-10 yet (not that it mattered last year)

Sounds almost exactly how Hahn and Kenny described how they were going to navigate the "open window" of the past three or four years when the team already had a core of "young, cost controlled talent". Perhaps you can advise them on how to better execute the "THEN you use free agency" part so we see fewer Adam LaRoche, Jimmy Rollins, and Austin Jackson types and more players of a Yoenis Cespedes caliber the next time around.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Thad Bosley

[GreenSox]

To dance the fine line of rebuilding, while giving this team a chance to contend (and what appears to be a really weak AL Central is what gives me the most hope), I suggest the following:

1)Move Robertson ASAP. Yes, the other guys could fall apart. But if they do, this team won't contend with our without Robertson.

2) Move one of the starters - either Gonzalez, or Holland. Rodon replaces

3)Move Frazier if he gets it together.

4)Hold Q until offseason. He is a premium off-season trade piece, due to the high value of his contract.

5)Send May back to the minors. Bring up W Garcia who hit well in his cup of coffee and his hitting well in AAA. Send Asche as well and bring up Delmonico or the like.

6)Keep playing the bench. It is still audition time. Yolmer may be needed as the utility player.

Other than Robertson, the Sox have another month until the suggestions are really tradeable, and it may be moot by then. Hope not, though.

Edited April 30, 2017 by GreenSox

[Lip Man 1]

To dance the fine line of rebuilding, while giving this team a chance to contend (and what appears to be a really weak AL Central is what gives me the most hope), I suggest the following:

1)Move Robertson ASAP. Yes, the other guys could fall apart. But if they do, this team won't contend with our without Robertson.

2) Move one of the starters - either Gonzalez, or Holland. Rodon replaces

3)Move Frazier if he gets it together.

4)Hold Q until offseason. He is a premium off-season trade piece, due to the high value of his contract.

5)Send May back to the minors. Bring up W Garcia who hit well in his cup of coffee and his hitting well in AAA. Send Asche as well and bring up Delmonico or the like.

6)Keep playing the bench. It is still audition time. Yolmer may be needed as the utility player.

Other than Robertson, the Sox have another month until the suggestions are really tradeable, and it may be moot by then. Hope not, though.

 

Seems pretty solid to me save for Rodon. Who knows what his injury situation really is and when he may return.

 

Mark

[TheTruth05]

Stay the course,if you get a decent return for Melky,Frazier,Robertson you pull the trigger immediately.Abreu too,even with the whole Moncada mentor stuff,he should be on the table.I'd dangle Jones but only trade him for a couple nice position players (ala Chapman/Miller deals last year).

[Chicago White Sox]

Stay the course,if you get a decent return for Melky,Frazier,Robertson you pull the trigger immediately.Abreu too,even with the whole Moncada mentor stuff,he should be on the table.I'd dangle Jones but only trade him for a couple nice position players (ala Chapman/Miller deals last year).

Yup, everyone should be on the table. And at a bare minimum, Robertson and most of the impending free agents should be moved before the deadline. I don't really care where our record stands come July, we need to remain focused on our long-term ambitions.

[greg775]

To dance the fine line of rebuilding, while giving this team a chance to contend (and what appears to be a really weak AL Central is what gives me the most hope), I suggest the following:

1)Move Robertson ASAP. Yes, the other guys could fall apart. But if they do, this team won't contend with our without Robertson.

2) Move one of the starters - either Gonzalez, or Holland. Rodon replaces

3)Move Frazier if he gets it together.

4)Hold Q until offseason. He is a premium off-season trade piece, due to the high value of his contract.

5)Send May back to the minors. Bring up W Garcia who hit well in his cup of coffee and his hitting well in AAA. Send Asche as well and bring up Delmonico or the like.

6)Keep playing the bench. It is still audition time. Yolmer may be needed as the utility player.

Other than Robertson, the Sox have another month until the suggestions are really tradeable, and it may be moot by then. Hope not, though.

 

My responses

1.) I've said it all along. Move Robertson but everybody laughed at me said it was too early.

2.) Gonzalez and Holland will get you NOBODY. Maybe a Class A non prospect. I mean, cmon.

3.) Frazier is worth nothing to other teams. He's in his final year before free agency and a sub .200 hitter.

4.) I'd actually trade Q now (if we are really in a rebuild). Why wait?

5.) May is a nonfactor. He's not a big leaguer. Release him ASAP. I agree bring up W Garcia and Delmonico. Release Asche NOW.

6.) OK I'll buy that.

Suggestion: Trade Robertson and Q now if you are committed to a rebuild. Melky is gonna bring nothing of note. Again maybe a class A non prospect.

[BlackSox13]

Teams aren't buying right now which makes even the best players worthless in trade value until a team desires them. Can't force a team to make a trade they aren't ready to make.

 

Renteria will be fine with the inevitable changes in the future. If the veterans don't like the rebuild then tuff s***, it's about the team logo on the hat and uni, not the name on the back of the jersey.

 

As for buy/sell in July, just go ahead and sell. There's no future with impending free agents such as Melky, Frazier, MiGo, Holland, Swarzak so why bother? How confident are we in a post season rotation of Q, Holland, Shields, MiGo and Rodon? #1 looks great but it's pretty shaky after him.

 

All that said, I really have enjoyed watching the Sox win game this year. Been fun so far.

[gosoxgo2005]

My responses

1.) I've said it all along. Move Robertson but everybody laughed at me said it was too early.

2.) Gonzalez and Holland will get you NOBODY. Maybe a Class A non prospect. I mean, cmon.

3.) Frazier is worth nothing to other teams. He's in his final year before free agency and a sub .200 hitter.

4.) I'd actually trade Q now (if we are really in a rebuild). Why wait?

5.) May is a nonfactor. He's not a big leaguer. Release him ASAP. I agree bring up W Garcia and Delmonico. Release Asche NOW.

6.) OK I'll buy that.

Suggestion: Trade Robertson and Q now if you are committed to a rebuild. Melky is gonna bring nothing of note. Again maybe a class A non prospect.

 

How do you figure this? Lucas Harrell returned Travis Demeritte last year who's on a lot of top 100 lists. This is just a few months after Harrell was pitching in Korea. James Shields returned Fernando Tatis Jr, also on top 100 lists. There are other examples too, I'm sure

 

I know it's not apples to apples but saying Gonzales and Holland will get you NOBODY is incorrect.

[SCCWS]

How do you figure this? Lucas Harrell returned Travis Demeritte last year who's on a lot of top 100 lists. This is just a few months after Harrell was pitching in Korea. James Shields returned Fernando Tatis Jr, also on top 100 lists. There are other examples too, I'm sure

 

I know it's not apples to apples but saying Gonzales and Holland will get you NOBODY is incorrect.

 

Agree they have some value. But you can only trade so many starters based on who is available to call up. Rushing guys like Danish and Fulmer could hinder their progress if they are not having solid AAA seasons. Another concern is Olney's article saying there will be a glut of starting pitching available at the deadline. Maybe you unload Gozo and holland and hold Q for the winter.

 

[caulfield12]

How do you figure this? Lucas Harrell returned Travis Demeritte last year who's on a lot of top 100 lists. This is just a few months after Harrell was pitching in Korea. James Shields returned Fernando Tatis Jr, also on top 100 lists. There are other examples too, I'm sure

 

I know it's not apples to apples but saying Gonzales and Holland will get you NOBODY is incorrect.

 

Of course, Tatis wouldn't have been included had the White Sox asked for less money back from the Padres.

[GreenSox]

How do you figure this? Lucas Harrell returned Travis Demeritte last year who's on a lot of top 100 lists. This is just a few months after Harrell was pitching in Korea. James Shields returned Fernando Tatis Jr, also on top 100 lists. There are other examples too, I'm sure

Yep, although it would be helpful if Hahn could trade with himself.