Colon: "I want to come back here"

[southsider2k5]

Some day, when you quit burning the fries, you might get promoted into a corporate structure. Deliver the mail well and you might get promoted again. The higher the level, the more of that is seen and done.

Of course there's people in charge, and Williams was one of them.

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you... Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

[Guest JimH]

Southsider2k3 ...

 

I'd imagine some of the confusion will clear up in the next few weeks. You are right, things are often 180 degrees from what we hear via the media vs. what is said on this board.

 

I don't have any insight as to which way things will go, nor will I insult you about french fries or delivering mail just because goings-on with the Sox are indeed confusing.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

[witesoxfan]

What's the difference in the Colon vs. Everett/Alomar situations in terms for getting draft picks if they are gone?

 

Is it because we're not going to offer the latter two contracts or arbitration?

 

Or because they were with the Sox for only half the season?

 

I don't understand the difference.

Couldn't tell you. I swear Oakland got a compensation pick from SF this year after they offered Durham arbitration, Durham turned it down, and he signed with SF.

[forkit]

The difference is that we won't offer arbitration to Robbie or Carl, though we may re-sign one of them. You have to offer arbitration to get a draft pick if the player signs with another team.

 

We're interested in Robbie but if we offer him arbitration, we'd have to offer him at least 80 percent of what he currently makes. That's too much in this environment. So instead, I assume, we are offering him a contract before he becomes a free agent, at a smaller amount. If he declines, he'll walk away and we'll get nothing back.

 

With Colon, we'll offer him arbitration if he turns down our contract offer, because we'd be willing to pay that for one year.

 

Forkit!

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

Not quite.

From today's Sun-Times;

"Williams and Colon's agent, Mitch Frankel, have had contract talks since spring training, and while both sides say they want to work out a new deal, there are no assurances.

 

''It's too close not to remain hopeful,'' Williams said, ''but it's far enough away where it might not make sense for us.''

 

Both sides have agreed in principle to a multiyear deal, but money remains the stumbling block.

 

With escalating contracts for Magglio Ordonez ($14 million) and Paul Konerko ($8 million) and likely raises for Carlos Lee and Buehrle (both arbitration eligible), Williams already has budget concerns. But Colon is likely to command premium dollars should he become a free agent, a factor influencing his side of the current negotiations.

 

''The agents [for Colon] have done a good job of being respectful and cognizant of what we're trying to do,'' Williams said. ''We've presented them with something we hope they say yes to. If they don't, I don't know where that leaves us. If not, we won't allow one or two signings to take away from what we have to do with the club as a whole.

 

''There are alternatives and options we're looking at. We have to be mindful of what is good for the whole as well as the individual.''

--------------------------------------------

It's hardly 'fact' that anything has been agreed to.

Umm unless the Trib is lying...

 

Williams said he and Colon's agent, Mitch Frankel, have been trying to hammer out an extension since spring training. They have agreed on the number of years but not the money.

 

The 30-year-old right-hander made $8.25 million this season and would likely command at least $10 million a year on the open market.

 

"It's too close not to remain hopeful, but it's far enough away where it might not make sense for us," Williams said. "I want to do it sooner rather than later because if it's not a possibility, we'll go to Option B."

It's the media and getting information from Williams, who is tap dancing in between the 'I's and 'We's, so it's probably all lies.

So you guys are letting KW lie to the media, even though he doesn't have anything to do with the negotiations? (because he isn't in charge anymore) And you are letting him get away with it, and no one is saying anything to refute these lies, including both the team and Colon or his agent????

I guess I missed something here. How do we know that KW isn't in charge anymore?

 

Regarding all rumors of negotiations, and players really wanting to stay here....money talks, bulls*** walks. I'll believe it when the deal is done. This is truly a situation when both sides are lying to us.

[southsider2k5]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

Like I said, no answer...

[Chisoxfn]

I'd say the big thing is how bad does Colon want to stay here. I think the Sox have made an offer that will secure Colon's future for the rest of his life. He knows after signing this contract he will be set.

 

Now he has to decide whether its alright with him to sign for a little less to stay in a place he likes (If he really likes it here) and to have a home for a while.

 

BottomLine: I think we will have the front four back next season. I also think we'll see Buehrle signed long term (Now is a good time to do it, imo).

 

Sox will move Konerko, imo...and I think you may not see Roberto or Jose back. They may stick with Harris/Miles at 2nd and sign a vet (You know that a vet middle infielder will be out there late in free agency available for absolutely nothing). Then at short I think the Sox may just invest some money or go get a young talented shortstop (Possibly Christian Guzman if available...maybe a David Eckstein..I hope no Eckstein).

 

Will have some more ideas once free agency starts and you see who exactly is out there. If Guzman is there I'd sign him in a heartbeat. But in that case you'd need to find a leadoff hitter.

[Bmr31]

I'd say the big thing is how bad does Colon want to stay here.  I think the Sox have made an offer that will secure Colon's future for the rest of his life.  He knows after signing this contract he will be set.

 

Now he has to decide whether its alright with him to sign for a little less to stay in a place he likes (If he really likes it here) and to have a home for a while. 

 

BottomLine: I think we will have the front four back next season.  I also think we'll see Buehrle signed long term (Now is a good time to do it, imo). 

 

Sox will move Konerko, imo...and I think you may not see Roberto or Jose back.  They may stick with Harris/Miles at 2nd and sign a vet (You know that a vet middle infielder will be out there late in free agency available for absolutely nothing).  Then at short I think the Sox may just invest some money or go get a young talented shortstop (Possibly Christian Guzman if available...maybe a David Eckstein..I hope no Eckstein). 

 

Will have some more ideas once free agency starts and you see who exactly is out there.  If Guzman is there I'd sign him in a heartbeat.  But in that case you'd need to find a leadoff hitter.

I agree with those thoughts. I hope you are right on with all of it.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I'm sorry to be the voice of reality here (shocked at Bmr's optimism) but whether or not we retain Colon will depend on 3 teams: NYY, BOS, & NYM.

 

They all have the $$$ to blow any offer we make out of the water.

The question is do they want him?

The NYY have a rotation of Mussina, Wells, Petite, Contreras, & Clemens.

Clemens is retiring & Wells is not getting any younger.

They have the ex-scrubs ace looking to rebound but there is a definite opening for a FA.

 

Latest FA link & update : the big 8:

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/fantasy/story/6613461

 

Vladimir Guerrero:

You can count on the Angels, Dodgers, Mets, Orioles, Padres and Yankees to make the 27-year-old a hefty offer, but why is everyone ruling out a return to the Expos?

 

Miguel Tejada:

Angels, Diamondbacks, Dodgers and Orioles are now the most likely suitors.

 

Kevin Millwood:

Millwood, 28, will certainly draw interest from Atlanta, his former team, and Baltimore, but it'd be best for his Fantasy chances if he remains in the National League.

 

Greg Maddux:

Padres, ATL

 

Bartolo Colon:

Padres, Giants, Orioles, Phillies, Yanks

 

Gary Sheffield:

He'll likely be the consolation prize for teams that lose out in the Guerrero sweepstakes, making the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees the early favorites to secure his services

 

Javy Lopez:

pADRES

 

Luis Castillo:

Castillo has expressed a desire to sign with the Cardinals, despite a .254 lifetime average at Busch Stadium, but he might land with the Cubs, whose second-base options are all prospective free agents.

 

I would say with so many teams vying for Bart's services, it will be a long-shot for the SOX to retain him.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

Like I said, no answer...

You got your answer. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you didn't get one.

[southsider2k5]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

Like I said, no answer...

You got your answer. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you didn't get one.

Yeah, a smart ass comment, and a BS answer because it was past tense. Why is Kenny out there comment for your team NOW, when he has no authority? I don't know about you, but all of the time when companies fire people, they let them go out and talk about the future of the company. Once again you duck and run when challenged...

[JoshPR]

I'm sorry to be the voice of reality here (shocked at Bmr's optimism) but whether or not we retain Colon will depend on 3 teams: NYY, BOS, & NYM.

 

They all have the $$$ to blow any offer we make out of the water.

The question is do they want him?

The NYY have a rotation of Mussina, Wells, Petite, Contreras, & Clemens.

Clemens is retiring & Wells is not getting any younger. 

They have the ex-scrubs ace looking to rebound but there is a definite opening for a FA.

 

Latest FA link & update : the big 8:

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/fantasy/story/6613461

 

Vladimir Guerrero:

You can count on the Angels, Dodgers, Mets, Orioles, Padres and Yankees to make the 27-year-old a hefty offer, but why is everyone ruling out a return to the Expos?

 

Miguel Tejada:

Angels, Diamondbacks, Dodgers and Orioles are now the most likely suitors.

 

Kevin Millwood:

Millwood, 28, will certainly draw interest from Atlanta, his former team, and Baltimore, but it'd be best for his Fantasy chances if he remains in the National League.

 

Greg Maddux:

Padres, ATL

 

Bartolo Colon:

Padres, Giants, Orioles, Phillies, Yanks

 

Gary Sheffield:

He'll likely be the consolation prize for teams that lose out in the Guerrero sweepstakes, making the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees the early favorites to secure his services

 

Javy Lopez:

pADRES

 

Luis Castillo:

Castillo has expressed a desire to sign with the Cardinals, despite a .254 lifetime average at Busch Stadium, but he might land with the Cubs, whose second-base options are all prospective free agents.

 

I would say with so many teams vying for Bart's services, it will be a long-shot for the SOX to retain him.

That's how Bulls*** SportsLine is...

 

Sheffield asked out of LA cause he didn't like it. He's not gonna even mention the Dodgers and hell the yanks are in the Sweepstakes for everyone evey year.

 

Let's just wait and see. Of course I see your point Jugger.. But i tend not to pay attetion to those rumor mills

[YASNY]

Some day, when you quit burning the fries, you might get promoted into a corporate structure. Deliver the mail well and you might get promoted again. The higher the level, the more of that is seen and done.

Of course there's people in charge, and Williams was one of them.

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you... Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

Actually, what Corg said here is a very accurate statement about how things are done in the corporate world.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

Like I said, no answer...

You got your answer. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you didn't get one.

Yeah, a smart ass comment, and a BS answer because it was past tense. Why is Kenny out there comment for your team NOW, when he has no authority? I don't know about you, but all of the time when companies fire people, they let them go out and talk about the future of the company. Once again you duck and run when challenged...

As you're only the 'prince' of the smart assed answers here, the 'king' being someone else, you don't like when you get back what you dish out, do you?

 

But you don't read what other people write, just your own drivel, so of course you would think it's all bulls***, when the bulls*** is just your lack of effort to read anything written. No one said KW was fired, or going to be fired, except you. 'Stepping down', or 'taking another position within the organization' is not fired. 'Fired' is when you forget to put the cheese on the EggMcMuffin for the umteenth time.

[southsider2k5]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

Like I said, no answer...

You got your answer. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you didn't get one.

Yeah, a smart ass comment, and a BS answer because it was past tense. Why is Kenny out there comment for your team NOW, when he has no authority? I don't know about you, but all of the time when companies fire people, they let them go out and talk about the future of the company. Once again you duck and run when challenged...

As you're only the 'prince' of the smart assed answers here, the 'king' being someone else, you don't like when you get back what you dish out, do you?

 

But you don't read what other people write, just your own drivel, so of course you would think it's all bulls***, when the bulls*** is just your lack of effort to read anything written. No one said KW was fired, or going to be fired, except you. 'Stepping down', or 'taking another position within the organization' is not fired. 'Fired' is when you forget to put the cheese on the EggMcMuffin for the umteenth time.

I have to laugh at the man who never starts anything... I guess it isn't starting anything if you hold a grudge huh? Get over it. If you are still bitter about stuff like that, it doesn't say much.

 

Plenty of people said Kenny was getting fired. Then when it didn't happen it got called "reassigned". go ahead and keep putting your window dressing on it, it still is the samething. When the company leans on you to "resign" it doesn't much matter what PC term you put on it, you are being run out of the company. And for someone to still be talking to the media, and better yet to be saying things that are misleading, or better yet not even necesarily true doesn't make much sense.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

Like I said, no answer...

You got your answer. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you didn't get one.

Yeah, a smart ass comment, and a BS answer because it was past tense. Why is Kenny out there comment for your team NOW, when he has no authority? I don't know about you, but all of the time when companies fire people, they let them go out and talk about the future of the company. Once again you duck and run when challenged...

As you're only the 'prince' of the smart assed answers here, the 'king' being someone else, you don't like when you get back what you dish out, do you?

 

But you don't read what other people write, just your own drivel, so of course you would think it's all bulls***, when the bulls*** is just your lack of effort to read anything written. No one said KW was fired, or going to be fired, except you. 'Stepping down', or 'taking another position within the organization' is not fired. 'Fired' is when you forget to put the cheese on the EggMcMuffin for the umteenth time.

I have to laugh at the man who never starts anything... I guess it isn't starting anything if you hold a grudge huh? Get over it. If you are still bitter about stuff like that, it doesn't say much.

 

Plenty of people said Kenny was getting fired. Then when it didn't happen it got called "reassigned". go ahead and keep putting your window dressing on it, it still is the samething. When the company leans on you to "resign" it doesn't much matter what PC term you put on it, you are being run out of the company. And for someone to still be talking to the media, and better yet to be saying things that are misleading, or better yet not even necesarily true doesn't make much sense.

It makes perfect sense, if you know anything about corporations. Williams made everyone happy with his work up until he was made G.M. The one who recommended him for the position over Danny Evans was Ron Schuler himself, who had JR's ear and trust, and left the Sox because of the Williams 'problem' and is now with the cUb. Since KW's promotion he changed as did a lot of things in the organization. Orchestrated interviews, well placed words, whispers instead of statements. 'Sneaky' stuff, like making a deal with Boston to trade Thomas at the deadline last year, or going into JR's office while he's at the hospital with Eddie to get Thomas' contract in order to invoke the RPR, and his screams over the speaker phone when Reinsdorf gave Thomas a new contract while KW was in a plane on the way back from the Dominican to Florida. JR waited until Kenny was away purposely to sign Frank, and Williams screamed "I'll trade his ass by the break" and hung up.

In a corporation, contracts carry a big weight.

All this has been posted before, but you didn't bother to read it, and now you complain. Too bad. Read someone else's words, take what you read and decide for yourself, but don't blow off stuff because you didn't write it.

[southsider2k5]

I shouldn't have expected any kind of answer from you...  Everytime you get challenged on anything you either run and hide or result to insults.

I've outlined it several times on this site and countless times on MLB, and you gave me some cocky response on one of those. So you got one back on something you know how it works, but decided to make a slam at it. You reap what you sow.

Like I said, no answer...

You got your answer. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you didn't get one.

Yeah, a smart ass comment, and a BS answer because it was past tense. Why is Kenny out there comment for your team NOW, when he has no authority? I don't know about you, but all of the time when companies fire people, they let them go out and talk about the future of the company. Once again you duck and run when challenged...

As you're only the 'prince' of the smart assed answers here, the 'king' being someone else, you don't like when you get back what you dish out, do you?

 

But you don't read what other people write, just your own drivel, so of course you would think it's all bulls***, when the bulls*** is just your lack of effort to read anything written. No one said KW was fired, or going to be fired, except you. 'Stepping down', or 'taking another position within the organization' is not fired. 'Fired' is when you forget to put the cheese on the EggMcMuffin for the umteenth time.

I have to laugh at the man who never starts anything... I guess it isn't starting anything if you hold a grudge huh? Get over it. If you are still bitter about stuff like that, it doesn't say much.

 

Plenty of people said Kenny was getting fired. Then when it didn't happen it got called "reassigned". go ahead and keep putting your window dressing on it, it still is the samething. When the company leans on you to "resign" it doesn't much matter what PC term you put on it, you are being run out of the company. And for someone to still be talking to the media, and better yet to be saying things that are misleading, or better yet not even necesarily true doesn't make much sense.

It makes perfect sense, if you know anything about corporations. Williams made everyone happy with his work up until he was made G.M. The one who recommended him for the position over Danny Evans was Ron Schuler himself, who had JR's ear and trust, and left the Sox because of the Williams 'problem' and is now with the cUb. Since KW's promotion he changed as did a lot of things in the organization. Orchestrated interviews, well placed words, whispers instead of statements. 'Sneaky' stuff, like making a deal with Boston to trade Thomas at the deadline last year, or going into JR's office while he's at the hospital with Eddie to get Thomas' contract in order to invoke the RPR, and his screams over the speaker phone when Reinsdorf gave Thomas a new contract while KW was in a plane on the way back from the Dominican to Florida. JR waited until Kenny was away purposely to sign Frank, and Williams screamed "I'll trade his ass by the break" and hung up.

In a corporation, contracts carry a big weight.

All this has been posted before, but you didn't bother to read it, and now you complain. Too bad. Read someone else's words, take what you read and decide for yourself, but don't blow off stuff because you didn't write it.

OK, I understand what he has done. That has been talked about ad naseum. Like I said, if this guy is a lying, underhanded, scumbag, who no one can trust, it can't be a good idea to let this guy mislead the media, and through that the general public. With the PR disaster that the Sox have been, combined with the media bias in this town, letting an idiot like that roam the streets is like adding gas to the fire.

 

As to his contract, is he on a long term deal? If Eddie E is already "acting" as Gm why wouldn't they just buy him out, since they are paying him anyway, and cut the cancer out of the organization?

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I started out liking the choice of Williams over Evans, but soured on KW during the 2002 season, so what I have to offer must be taken with that in mind. The Wells trade was one I liked, the Ritchie trade I trusted Schu on, it was his idea, but not to give up as much as KW did, though that was because KW misunderstood Schu, he thought Ron meant that we should go after Ritchie at almost all costs. Poor communication skills are a big problem with KW.

That said, I do not know the particulars of his contract, HSC may, but I do know they have said it's very complicated, the race issue part of it as far as public perception goes. Race is no issue in the organization at all, from the top. Add to that KW was well liked by everyone, and he's given the benefit of the doubt that he's just on a power kick, no one wants to ruin him, just get him to learn how things are done. So, move him over, cite 'personal reasons' which do exist, and rise another day is the thought. KW has PO'd Einhorn a few times, as recently as in Boston, but JR has calmed things down.

The organization is totally upset at the media for forming public opinion against them. They are right, they've had fabricated stories and innaccurrate claims made a lot, the SCORE and Marriotti are simply not talked to anymore because they perpetuated total falsehoods. I'm a fighter, and would go on the attack, and have said so many times, however, JR believes that it should just die on it's own, he'll handle the bad pub. If the media gets to Eddie again, as they did years ago, I believe JR will rise up big time. JR won't have Eddie take that again.

That said, the next few days will say a lot, maybe stretching to after the World Series, depending on what favours Selig asks for.

[Dick Allen]

I started out liking the choice of Williams over Evans, but soured on KW during the 2002 season, so what I have to offer must be taken with that in mind. The Wells trade was one I liked, the Ritchie trade I trusted Schu on, it was his idea, but not to give up as much as KW did, though that was because KW misunderstood Schu, he thought Ron meant that we should go after Ritchie at almost all costs. Poor communication skills are a big problem with KW.

That said, I do not know the particulars of his contract, HSC may, but I do know they have said it's very complicated, the race issue part of it as far as public perception goes. Race is no issue in the organization at all, from the top. Add to that KW was well liked by everyone, and he's given the benefit of the doubt that he's just on a power kick, no one wants to ruin him, just get him to learn how things are done. So, move him over, cite 'personal reasons' which do exist, and rise another day is the thought. KW has PO'd Einhorn a few times, as recently as in Boston, but JR has calmed things down.

The organization is totally upset at the media for forming public opinion against them. They are right, they've had fabricated stories and innaccurrate claims made a lot, the SCORE and Marriotti are simply not talked to anymore because they perpetuated total falsehoods. I'm a fighter, and would go on the attack, and have said so many times, however, JR believes that it should just die on it's own, he'll handle the bad pub. If the media gets to Eddie again, as they did years ago, I believe JR will rise up big time. JR won't have Eddie take that again.

That said, the next few days will say a lot, maybe stretching to after the World Series, depending on what favours Selig asks for.

Please tell me Tony LaRussa is not part of the equation.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Please tell me Tony LaRussa is not part of the equation.

Where there's smoke...

 

I hope not as well, and haven't heard anything to that effect, but that reunion party sure made a lot of impressions on everyone, and a lot of old 'arguments' died that night and the next few days.

[southsider2k5]

Actually the fact that race even gets mentioned pisses me off. (nothing against you Corg, but this has been mentioned before when the firings of JM and KW have been discussed) Of all the things you can say about JR, his record on fair hiring is untouched in pro sports. His franchise became the first pro team in sports history to have a minority GM and manager at the sametime. He has always interviewed and hired minorities whenever they were the best canditates. JR has always hired what he felt were the best.

[whitesoxfan99]

Anyone watch the press conference? Williams said that Colon was offered one of the richest packages in club history. Sounds promising.