Tommy Kahnle

[Dick Allen]

The Nats owner nixed the Robertson trade because of money. He nixed signing Greg Holland because of money attached to a vesting option. To think they will go out and trade a bunch of top prospects for highly paid guys seems very improbable.

[caulfield12]

This ^

 

Guys like Robles are simply not part of the conversation for non-legendary relief pitchers. You can make an argument that three of them are equal in value to Robles, but as mentioned before, the actual mechanics of adding three pitchers to your 25-man roster at the same time are incredibly complicated and come with additional costs, like clubhouse stability and possibly the loss of other players who are bad now but might be useful down the road. It works in video games but not in reality.

 

White Flag trade to Giants?

[iamshack]

I would think so -- the Nate Jones deal is so cheap that it would make pretty much ANY decent player more valuable. Even if Kahnle busts entirely, the amount of salary he'd be owed each year is just a step above rounding error.

When compared to what you might lose out by having to pay him arbitration? I'm not sure I agree here.

[iamshack]

The Nats owner nixed the Robertson trade because of money. He nixed signing Greg Holland because of money attached to a vesting option. To think they will go out and trade a bunch of top prospects for highly paid guys seems very improbable.

That was before he had Dusty crying to the press every week about needing pen upgrades.

[caulfield12]

I'll agree with that. I'm using those deals as a recent deadline example for relief pitching.

 

The Nationals are faced with a championship caliber roster and rotation, but a weak pen that is likely to result in their early playoff exit unless addressed. I would go as far to say the 2017 Nationals might be in a more desperate situation than the Cubs were in 2016, because the Cubs theoretical contention window is longer than that Nats.

 

Robertson is not as good, no doubt, but Robertson is also very much available. I do not see an appreciably better and/or more proven closing option on the trade market right now, or at least one that will come at an equal or lesser cost.

 

Adding a closer does not really solve their issues though, as their entire pen, outside of Albers, has been bad.

 

Kahnle will cost too much for them, but a Robertson + Swarzak + cash for some combination of prospects not named Robles or Fedde I think could be realistic?

 

Romero has a helluva arm...

[Eminor3rd]

When compared to what you might lose out by having to pay him arbitration? I'm not sure I agree here.

 

I could be mis-remembering, but isn't Jones deal just a couple million every year? If you figure that the roster spots costs $600k at minimum, you're only talking about being out a few million over the course of a few seasons. And if he's good, he could stand to earn much more than that in arbitration.

[southsider2k5]

The Nats owner nixed the Robertson trade because of money. He nixed signing Greg Holland because of money attached to a vesting option. To think they will go out and trade a bunch of top prospects for highly paid guys seems very improbable.

 

It hasn't been said yet by the organization, but I really would bet money that their willing to pick up a large chunk of money in a deal went down a lot with the signing of Luis Robert. That is a $50 million check that Jerry and the partners have to write now. Are they going to be willing to write another $10 million check to Washington? Eh, I can't see it. The cost is only sunk if the assumption is that they couldn't take less in a trade to get someone to take the contract.

[iamshack]

It hasn't been said yet by the organization, but I really would bet money that their willing to pick up a large chunk of money in a deal went down a lot with the signing of Luis Robert. That is a $50 million check that Jerry and the partners have to write now. Are they going to be willing to write another $10 million check to Washington? Eh, I can't see it. The cost is only sunk if the assumption is that they couldn't take less in a trade to get someone to take the contract.

I think if they thought they were getting the right player, they would do it. But as I said earlier, if they are just getting the Nats 4th rated prospect, I think you are correct.

[iamshack]

I could be mis-remembering, but isn't Jones deal just a couple million every year? If you figure that the roster spots costs $600k at minimum, you're only talking about being out a few million over the course of a few seasons. And if he's good, he could stand to earn much more than that in arbitration.

He's basically making $8 million through his arb years and then we have three option years where he can make up to another $15-18 million total depending on certain things happening or not happening. So he can ultimately make about $25 million over 6 years.

 

What is the max Kahnle might reasonably make over his next 6 years? I suppose maybe it's worth doing? I dunno, I think I would wait at least a year?

Edited June 14, 2017 by iamshack

[steveno89]

The Nats owner nixed the Robertson trade because of money. He nixed signing Greg Holland because of money attached to a vesting option. To think they will go out and trade a bunch of top prospects for highly paid guys seems very improbable.

 

That was the offseason, prior to the bullpen imploding. If money is a big sticking point I would potentially entertain absorbing salary as long as the prospect return was increased.

 

Nats can't ask for salary relief, and second second tier prospects and hope for impact help.

 

What other contenders might want Robertson/Kahnle/Swarzak?

[harfman77]

Trade him for a max return while you can. Relievers are so fickle from year to year that you need to capitalize on their value while you can, the Sox have a system full of guys that can be high leverage relievers down the road.

[Bob Sacamano]

It hasn't been said yet by the organization, but I really would bet money that their willing to pick up a large chunk of money in a deal went down a lot with the signing of Luis Robert. That is a $50 million check that Jerry and the partners have to write now. Are they going to be willing to write another $10 million check to Washington? Eh, I can't see it. The cost is only sunk if the assumption is that they couldn't take less in a trade to get someone to take the contract.

 

Either way, they are set to pay him the remainder of his contract if they don't move him. So might as well eat as much as you are willing possible to get a couple good prospects out of it.

[steveno89]

He's basically making $8 million through his arb years and then we have three option years where he can make up to another $15-18 million total depending on certain things happening or not happening. So he can ultimately make about $25 million over 6 years.

 

What is the max Kahnle might reasonably make over his next 6 years? I suppose maybe it's worth doing? I dunno, I think I would wait at least a year?

 

There's no need to extend Kahnle as his arbitration raises should not be too bad, at least next year. I still dangle him now and see if anybody bites.

 

Relief help is always in demand at the deadline, and I'm sure the Sox will be a popular phone call as we auction off pretty much everything.

[Buehrlesque]

Trade him for a max return while you can. Relievers are so fickle from year to year that you need to capitalize on their value while you can, the Sox have a system full of guys that can be high leverage relievers down the road.

This. Kahnle is having a monster year, but it pretty much came out of nowhere, and he could return to average-ness next year. The fickleness of non-name brand relief pitchers would prevent other teams from paying anything even close to what is being suggested here. I would be happy with Robertson and Kahnle for Soto, Kieboom and a lottery ticket.

[fathom]

Soto is likely untouchable along with Robles. Saw someone say he's a top 15 prospect heading into next year.

[southsider2k5]

Either way, they are set to pay him the remainder of his contract if they don't move him. So might as well eat as much as you are willing possible to get a couple good prospects out of it.

 

Only if they can't get a less player from a team who picks up the entire contract.

[iamshack]

Soto is likely untouchable along with Robles. Saw someone say he's a top 15 prospect heading into next year.

Fathom! Welcome!

 

And Fedde?

[caulfield12]

Nats' pen getting beaten up again by Braves, but not high leverage guys. Well, Treinen sometimes is.

[iamshack]

Nats' pen getting beaten up again by Braves, but not high leverage guys. Well, Treinen sometimes is.

He was their closer initially I think...

[Chicago White Sox]

It hasn't been said yet by the organization, but I really would bet money that their willing to pick up a large chunk of money in a deal went down a lot with the signing of Luis Robert. That is a $50 million check that Jerry and the partners have to write now. Are they going to be willing to write another $10 million check to Washington? Eh, I can't see it. The cost is only sunk if the assumption is that they couldn't take less in a trade to get someone to take the contract.

Can't the bonus be paid over multiple years? Wasn't that the exact reason why some posters here thought we got money with Moncada?

[steveno89]

Soto is likely untouchable along with Robles. Saw someone say he's a top 15 prospect heading into next year.

 

If Soto, Robles and fedde are untouchable, good luck trading for impact relief help.

[southsider2k5]

Can't the bonus be paid over multiple years? Wasn't that the exact reason why some posters here thought we got money with Moncada?

 

The bonus can, the tax can't. At the very least the Sox are writing a $33ish million check (tax ~ $25 million, payment 8.333m give) give or take a million for tax purposes. My guess from the way they are doing this in the Dominican is that they are going to pay it all up front to save the kid on the taxes as that is something like a difference of a $4 million because of various tax rates, if my math holds up. If you divide into 3 payments, you lose 2/3 of the tax benefits.

[witesoxfan]

The bonus can, the tax can't. At the very least the Sox are writing a $33ish million check (tax ~ $25 million, payment 8.333m give) give or take a million for tax purposes. My guess from the way they are doing this in the Dominican is that they are going to pay it all up front to save the kid on the taxes as that is something like a difference of a $4 million because of various tax rates, if my math holds up. If you divide into 3 payments, you lose 2/3 of the tax benefits.

 

Not that Rick Hahn is bad at identifying talent, but it's not his strong point. The reason he was such a sought after GM is due to how contract savvy he is. Chris Sale was always going to bring a haul, but it was Hahn's shrewd negotiations that probably netted the Sox both Moncada and Kopech. Without the contract they had in place for Eaton, there's no way Washington is giving up all 3 of Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning.

 

If they got Luis Robert simply because they are paying everything upfront instead of pushing this off, thus making Robert more money as a result, the dude is amazing. People give him s*** because the Sox have not put a good team on the field under his regime thus far, but that's been more s***ty depth and less about what he's actually done. He's worked some very impressive trades and not actually given up much, if anything, in actual talent.

[Thad Bosley]

It hasn't been said yet by the organization, but I really would bet money that their willing to pick up a large chunk of money in a deal went down a lot with the signing of Luis Robert. That is a $50 million check that Jerry and the partners have to write now. Are they going to be willing to write another $10 million check to Washington? Eh, I can't see it. The cost is only sunk if the assumption is that they couldn't take less in a trade to get someone to take the contract.

"Jerry and the partners" ought to really check in with their financial planners before they make any foolish decisions, despite how those decisions might benefit the Sox' fan base (as if THAT'S ever been a factor in any decision-making the past four decades). Wouldn't want to threaten Reinsdorf's status as "billionaire owner" by asking him to sign players who might just lift this franchise out of its near decade-long postseason-appearing drought.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Thad Bosley

[iamshack]

Not that Rick Hahn is bad at identifying talent, but it's not his strong point. The reason he was such a sought after GM is due to how contract savvy he is. Chris Sale was always going to bring a haul, but it was Hahn's shrewd negotiations that probably netted the Sox both Moncada and Kopech. Without the contract they had in place for Eaton, there's no way Washington is giving up all 3 of Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning.

 

If they got Luis Robert simply because they are paying everything upfront instead of pushing this off, thus making Robert more money as a result, the dude is amazing. People give him s*** because the Sox have not put a good team on the field under his regime thus far, but that's been more s***ty depth and less about what he's actually done. He's worked some very impressive trades and not actually given up much, if anything, in actual talent.

And as much as people want to question or allocate accountability to Kenny or Rick for certain moves over the last few years, they actually appear to be forming a great team. Rick is a more patient and effective negotiator, whereas Kenny is able to spend his time evaluating talent. In these roles, I feel as though the two of them form a stronger front office than we've had since perhaps the late 80's/early 90's.