Attendance is Actually up 8.1%

[southsider2k5]

In the 50s and 60s, Chicago was a White Sox town often outdrawing the Cubs by a 2-1 margin.

When JR bought the Sox in 1981 the town was equally divided.

The Sox were the first Chicago team to draw 2 million in 1983, so things were still looking good but JR started a run of disaster moves that lost a couple of generations to the Cubs, those moves and the great marketing job by the Tribune and Harry Caray that made Wrigley Field the greatest place ever to watch a baseball game really hurt the Sox. Press coverage in the town was really lopsided. So now we are in this situation were the Cubs out draw us by a 2-1 margin. I have no idea what kinds of moves the Sox can make to rectify the situation, it would probably take a new ball park in a better location and an extended run of first place finishes and a couple of WS Championships and that still might not do the trick. Don't count on this hapenning, this franchise has never made the post season 2 years in a row in their 117 years.

When the lease is up in a decade or so, my guess is there will be about 3 or 4 towns that will throw out some sweetheart deals to get the Sox to move.

 

There has been at least 3 times in the last 50 years that the White Sox have been almost moved because they could see greener pastures. Two of those were long before the evil JR empire took over this team.

 

The White Sox haven't been truly big market successful, even when they have had success.

[Iwritecode]

There has been at least 3 times in the last 50 years that the White Sox have been almost moved because they could see greener pastures. Two of those were long before the evil JR empire took over this team.

 

The White Sox haven't been truly big market successful, even when they have had success.

 

That's because they've had so little success. The truly successful teams have had more playoff appearances in the last 10 or 15 years than we've had in the last 100.

[southsider2k5]

That's because they've had so little success. The truly successful teams have had more playoff appearances in the last 10 or 15 years than we've had in the last 100.

 

Even in the 60's the White Sox were trying to move.

[greg775]

I remember when Sox fans used to say that a playoff appearance was enough. Then it became a World title would be enough. Now they have to win every single year. Knowing this fan base, they would turn into the Atlanta Braves who didn't even sell out playoff games.

I think Sox fans would be like Blackhawks fans. Very excited, very very excited to win it all and have three parades in a short period of time. Then be extremely disappointed but understanding after an early exit like this season. Nobody calling for coach's head or blasting anybody incessantly for the first-round loss. I think if we won all those titles we'd be good fans like Blackhawks fans.

 

The Sox current problem is so many lousy years following the 05 title. I mean the 05 title was something everybody still appreciates, but at the same time, the team imploded so quickly and currently is so bad it's difficult to be a good fan.

This team is only 7.5 games out. It wouldn't have taken much to contend. But the front office has been so bad they decided to do a slow rebuild at a bad time. Again, it's so easy to contend nowadays and this organization is so far from contention it's sickening.

 

Cheers to 05. Yes. But fans have the right to be despondent at what happened since then.

Edited July 5, 2017 by greg775

[Iwritecode]

Even in the 60's the White Sox were trying to move.

 

Do you think of the the 1960's White Sox when you think about successful teams? I mean sure they made their first WS appearance in 40 years and then followed it up a few 2 place finishes but nothing to really brag about... It was similair to 2005. One oddly lucky year in the middle of a lot of bad ones.

[southsider2k5]

Do you think of the the 1960's White Sox when you think about successful teams? I mean sure they made their first WS appearance in 40 years and then followed it up a few 2 place finishes but nothing to really brag about... It was similair to 2005. One oddly lucky year in the middle of a lot of bad ones.

 

The 50's into the 60's was by far the White Sox most successful era. In a time where one team made the playoffs, they were right behind the Yankees.

[Dick Allen]

The goalposts will be moved once the team does start winning again. They will draw better than now, but they will draw what a mid market team draws when they win. Right now, the flavor of the day is consecutive playoff appearances. Like 2 86 win wild card appearances would trump the 2005-2006 teams. And one huge factor for the 2006 attendance was the amount of people buying season ticket plans in order to secure World Series tickets. Without it, attendance may have been close to 100k lower.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Lip Man 1]

The problem is that 2005 pretty much came out of nowhere. The fans came out about as well as you can expect for a team that was predicted to finish 3rd or 4th in the division and hadn't shown a lot of promise in the years past. Then in 2006 we came out in droves ready to support the team as much as we could. But they fell short and then 2007 happened and we all figured it was back to the same ole, same old once again. Sure we got teased a little in 2008 but I don't think anyone really believed that team would do much. And we've gotten nothing since then.

 

I'm positive the Sox would support a consistant winner/contender. We just haven't been given the chance yet.

 

Absolutely agree with this comment 100%

 

[Lip Man 1]

We just need to stop comparing ourselves to the Cubs who are the biggest attendance anomaly in baseball and compare ourselves to what "normal" teams do when they don't play well. Just look at the teams in our own division. The Royals had attendance around 1.3 to 1.5 million every year for years. Then they went to the WS and *only* drew 1.9 million. Then 2.7 million the next year when they won. Last year they missed the playoffs and their attendance went down. I'm sure it will go down even more if they miss the playoffs again this year.

 

The Indians, even with a WS appearance last year haven't cracked 2 million since 2008.

 

The Twins attendance has been steadily declining since they moved into their new stadium. They've been to the playoffs once since then.

 

We need to quit acting like the White Sox attendance isn't completely normal for what this team is and has been for several years.

 

Again terrific post. Very well done!

 

[Dick Allen]

Actually, there are 6. The A's, Nationals, Royals, Reds, Rays and Pirates. What's interesting in looking through all of them individually, is that most of them set their all-time attendance records in a year where one of the following happened.

 

1) They had 2 or more consecutive playoff appearances in the years prior. Or in the case of the 2011 Giants, they were in the middle of an every other year WS championship streak.

 

2) It was their first year of existence. The 1993 Marlins and Rockies. The 1998 Rays, The 2005 Nationals.

 

3) It was their first (or last) year at a stadium. 2008 Mets, 2010 Twins, 2004 Padres.

 

The only real anomalies are the 2007 Dodgers, the 1997 Orioles, the 2008 Tigers and the 2011 Brewers. I'm not sure what was special about the years they hit their attendance highs.Even the teams that have lower records than the Sox fit into one of these categories.

 

• 1993 Rockies 4,483,350 first year of existence
• 2008 Yankees 4,298,655 It's the Yankees. The one year out of an 18-year span they didn't make the playoffs.
• 1993 Blue Jays 4,057,947 2nd of back to back WS wins. Skydome had a capacity of over 53,000
• 2008 Mets 4,042,045 Last season at Shea Stadium
• 1993 Braves 3,884,720 3 consecutive playoff appearances (including 2 WS) in 91, 92 and 93.
• 2007 Dodgers 3,857,036 Consistently around 3 million pretty much every year. Not sure what's special about this specific year.
• 2010 Phillies 3,777,322 Consecutive playoff appearances from 2007 - 2011. Won WS in 2008.
• 1997 Orioles 3,711,132 team drew over 3 million every year between 1992 and 2001 (minus strike year). 97 was second playoff appearance in a row
• 1998 Dbacks 3,610,290 first year of existence
• 2007 Cards 3,552,180 6 playoff appearances in 7 years prior. WS win in 2006.
• 2002 Mariners 3,542,938 Went to ALCS in 2000 and 2001. Won 116 games in 2001. Attendance steadily declined in following years.
• 1999 Indians 3,468,456 midst of sellout record, won division 4 years prior
• 2012 Rangers 3,460,280 went to WS in 2010 and 2011.
• 2006 Angels 3,406,790 Consecutive playoff appearance 2 years prior and 3 years after.
• 2011 Giants 3,387,303 Middle of an every other year WS championship. Won it in 2010, 2012 and 2014.
• 2008 Cubs 3,300,200 First back to back playoff appearance since 1908. Steadily declined until next playoff appearance in 2015.
• 2010 Twins 3,223,640 first year of new stadium (has gone down every year since)
• 2008 Tigers 3,202,645 no idea? WS 2 years prior. Payroll jumped about 45 million
• 2004 Astros 3,087,872 Pretty good jump from 2003. Went to NLCS. 2005 attendance was actually lower.
• 2011 Brewers 3,071,373 No idea? Pretty good jump from 2010. Went to NLCS in 2011.
• 1993 Marlins 3,064,847 first year of existence
• 2009 Red Sox 3,062,699 Build up from previous years. Didn't go down much 2 years after either. Haven't cracked 3 million mark since 2012
• 2004 Padres 3,016,752 first year of new stadium Never above 3 million since.
• 2006 White Sox 2,957,414 year after WS win
• 1990 A's 2,900,217 3rd consecutive WS appearance.
• 2005 Nationals 2,731,993 First year of current iteration
• 2015 Royals 2,708,549 2nd consecutive WS appearance.
• 1976 Reds 2,629,708 2nd of back to back WS wins
• 1998 Rays 2,506,293 First year of existence
• 2015 Pirates 2,498,596 Third consecutive year of playoff appearances

 

 

The problem is that 2005 pretty much came out of nowhere. The fans came out about as well as you can expect for a team that was predicted to finish 3rd or 4th in the division and hadn't shown a lot of promise in the years past. Then in 2006 we came out in droves ready to support the team as much as we could. But they fell short and then 2007 happened and we all figured it was back to the same ole, same old once again. Sure we got teased a little in 2008 but I don't think anyone really believed that team would do much. And we've gotten nothing since then.

 

I'm positive the Sox would support a consistant winner/contender. We just haven't been given the chance yet.

The thing about 2005, the White Sox were never not in first place. First place from day one until the end of the season and 11-1 in the playoffs. About as dominating as can be. Yet in September, they didn't even draw 50k today for a 3 day series vs. KC.

[Lip Man 1]

Do you think of the the 1960's White Sox when you think about successful teams? I mean sure they made their first WS appearance in 40 years and then followed it up a few 2 place finishes but nothing to really brag about... It was similair to 2005. One oddly lucky year in the middle of a lot of bad ones.

 

Historically this comment is wrong. The Sox had 17 consecutive winning seasons including 1960-1967. That's the 4th longest streak in MLB history. From 51`-67 they won 90 or more games seven times and from 51-60 you only played 154 games.

 

They went to the series in 59 and won 90+ in 63-64-65.

 

That's a successful franchise.

 

What absolutely hurt the Sox in the 1960's was the social unrest, the perception that Comiskey Park became a "dangerous place" because of where it was located and the ethnic groups around it including people of color.

 

The Sox couldn't do a damn thing about that. Ergo the "moving" rumors which began in 1968 (co incidentally when the Sox were about to have the three worst consecutive seasons in franchise history...)

[Lip Man 1]

The thing about 2005, the White Sox were never not in first place. First place from day one until the end of the season and 11-1 in the playoffs. About as dominating as can be. Yet in September, they didn't even draw 50k today for a 3 day series vs. KC.

 

Even though they led wire to wire the memory of 2001-2002-2003 (and the choke in late September) and to a certain extent the fade in the second half of 2004 (due to injuries) were still fresh in fan's minds. "How are they going to blow it this time?" was always there.

[steveno89]

Historically this comment is wrong. The Sox had 17 consecutive winning seasons including 1960-1967. That's the 4th longest streak in MLB history. From 51`-67 they won 90 or more games seven times and from 51-60 you only played 154 games.

 

They went to the series in 59 and won 90+ in 63-64-65.

 

That's a successful franchise.

 

What absolutely hurt the Sox in the 1960's was the social unrest, the perception that Comiskey Park became a "dangerous place" because of where it was located and the ethnic groups around it including people of color.

 

The Sox couldn't do a damn thing about that. Ergo the "moving" rumors which began in 1968 (co incidentally when the Sox were about to have the three worst consecutive seasons in franchise history...)

 

It's never going to be easy for the Sox to draw when you are competing against the Cubs and Wrigley Field. If/when the team gets more competitive I think the Sox could regularly draw in the upper 20's or even 30,000 per game.

 

A rebuilding club just is not going to draw very well.

[Dick Allen]

Even though they led wire to wire the memory of 2001-2002-2003 (and the choke in late September) and to a certain extent the fade in the second half of 2004 (due to injuries) were still fresh in fan's minds. "How are they going to blow it this time?" was always there.

 

 

Why would it be any different if they started having more success? The possibility of choking or fading will always be there.

 

 

[Iwritecode]

The thing about 2005, the White Sox were never not in first place. First place from day one until the end of the season and 11-1 in the playoffs. About as dominating as can be. Yet in September, they didn't even draw 50k today for a 3 day series vs. KC.

 

That was the weekdays following Labor Day weekend when all the kids went back to school. The attendance for those games was probably mostly made up of the season ticket holders. Which we all assumed was pretty low. That makes the 2.3 million total for the season look that much more impressive IMO.

 

FWIW, they followed up with 80K plus in the weekend series following those games and never had less than 25K in any of the home games after that.

[The Mighty Mite]

Even in the 60's the White Sox were trying to move.

 

Late 60s, things went bad in 1968 not only on the field but with riots from the MLK assassination and the Democrat National Convention, the Cubs also becoming contenders for the first time since the mid 40s didn't help things.

Three times we came close to losing the team, one of these years it's going to happen.

Edited July 5, 2017 by The Mighty Mite

[Iwritecode]

Why would it be any different if they started having more success? The possibility of choking or fading will always be there.

 

It'd be nice to try it once. Just to see what happens...

[Chicago White Sox]

Sustained success does result in many more bandwagoners jumping aboard. And honestly, those fans were a key part of our attendance figures from 2006 to 2008. Unfortunately, we couldn't string together enough playoff appearances to keep those bandwagoners for a lengthier period of time.

[Iwritecode]

Sustained success does result in many more bandwagoners jumping aboard. And honestly, those fans were a key part of our attendance figures from 2006 to 2008. Unfortunately, we couldn't string together enough playoff appearances to keep those bandwagoners for a lengthier period of time.

 

That actually sums up this whole thing pretty well.

[southsider2k5]

Late 60s, things went bad in 1968 not only on the field but with riots from the MLK assassination and the Democrat National Convention, the Cubs also becoming contenders for the first time since the mid 40s didn't help things.

Three times we came close to losing the team, one of these years it's going to happen.

For 15 years they were one of the best in baseball, but within like 2 years they needed to move, all of for reasons that would have hit many other teams in baseball? I mean that is kind of the point. Even at their peak, they haven't been one of the big market teams. Big market teams easily ride through that kind of stuff. It is the middle and smaller market teams that have the kind of problems the White Sox have historically had.

[The Mighty Mite]

For 15 years they were one of the best in baseball, but within like 2 years they needed to move, all of for reasons that would have hit many other teams in baseball? I mean that is kind of the point. Even at their peak, they haven't been one of the big market teams. Big market teams easily ride through that kind of stuff. It is the middle and smaller market teams that have the kind of problems the White Sox have historically had.

 

Actually 17 straight years of winning baseball, growing up that's all I knew, that the Sox were always going to be contenders.

One of the big problems from the beginning days of the franchise has been bad ownership, from the Comiskey family to Veeck to the Allyns to Veeck again and to JR. A close second has been the location of the ballpark, not a big issue in the early years but from the mid 20th century the ballpark's neighborhood has gotten a bad rap. I retired to Florida in 1993 but in the years I lived up there I attended hundred of games at old Comiskey and a few more at the new park, never once did I have any issue or witness any kind of crime in arriving or leaving the park, saw many fights in the park especially in the 50s and 60s when the damn Yankees came to town.

Edited July 6, 2017 by The Mighty Mite

[caulfield12]

White Sox were the eighth most valuable franchise entering 2006.

 

10th at the beginning of 2012. Slipped all the way down to 15th coming into this year. Actually improved to get to that spot.

 

Fwiw.

 

 

But it's not just baseball's most valuable franchises that are surging up our ranking of the sports business world's most powerful. The Chicago White Sox (baseball's 15th most valuable team at $1.35 billion), Pittsburgh Pirates (17th, $1.25 billion) and Oakland Athletics (29th, $880 million) are also among the biggest movers in our latest SMI update.

Forbes.com

 

 

And yet the Marlins were originally talking $2-2.1 billion and will likely fetch at least $1.5 when all is said and done.

Edited July 5, 2017 by caulfield12

[zisk]

Actually 17 straight years of winning baseball, growing up that's all I knew, that the Sox were always going to be contenders.

One of the big problems from the beginning days of the franchise has been bad ownership, from the Comiskey family to Veeck to the Allyns to Veeck again and to JR. A close second has been the location of the ballpark, not a big issue in the early years but from the mid 20th century the ballpark's neighborhood has gotten a bad rap. I retired to Florida in 1993 but in the years I lived up there I atended hundred of games at old Comiskey and a few more at the new park, never once did I have any issue or witness any kind of crime in arriving or leaving the park, saw many fights in the park especially in the 50s and 60s when the damn Yankees came to town.

Went to a Sox-Brewers game on a hot Saturday night in 91 or 92.

 

I must have seen 10-15 fistfights at that 1 game alone. People were tail-

 

gating for 3-4 hours in County stadium parking lot before hand and it was actually

 

kind of scary by the 7th inning or so.

[Thad Bosley]

If you can get past the most simple of concepts, you could understand that it is a little more complex than what you want it to be to fit your grudge.

Lol - your time would be better spent reading the Mighty Mite's posts and less time on these tedious insults. You might actually pick up on a few simple yet accurate concepts that poster articulates very well that seem to escape you.

[Lip Man 1]

It's never going to be easy for the Sox to draw when you are competing against the Cubs and Wrigley Field. If/when the team gets more competitive I think the Sox could regularly draw in the upper 20's or even 30,000 per game.

 

A rebuilding club just is not going to draw very well.

 

I agree with this although it should be noted that in the 17 years between 51 and 67, the Sox outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those seasons...sometimes by a wide margin.