Nationals acquire Doolittle/Madson from As

[harfman77]

Kahlne has no track record to speak of, I highly doubt we get a top 100 guy for him. If so it will be 80-100 range

 

I think you could walk away with Erick Fedde and some 18 year old fireballer and both sides would be OK.

[username]

I'm sure nearly everyone will be shopped but I would put a high price on him. I think you value him like he is for real and teams won't want to pay that price. If he takes Robertson's place and is for real, next trade deadline you could get a haul greater than Robertson as he will be under control thru 2020 and cheap.

 

Yeah this ^. Guy has Chapman-like stuff and has 3 years of control (and to our knowledge isn't a piece of crap human). If you don't get a high price he's worth keeping for the potential monster package if he can close.

[OmarComing25]

Kahlne has no track record to speak of, I highly doubt we get a top 100 guy for him. If so it will be 80-100 range

I disagree. I agree that the lack of track record means that we probably won't get a deal matching his performance, but I think GMs would definitely give up a top 100 guy for him, and I think the 50-75 range is in play. If not then two in the 80-100 range should be doable. There's been nothing flukey about his numbers so far. Of course he could go back to struggling with his command, but I think there's enough reason to believe he's legitimate that we'll get a pretty good offer.

[harfman77]

Tommy Kahnle in save situations - MLB - 3/7 MiLB - 39/52

[Jose Abreu]

Tommy Kahnle in save situations - MLB - 3/7 MiLB - 39/52

Yeah, those 7th inning blown saves should scare teams away!!!

[LittleHurt05]

Tommy Kahnle in save situations - MLB - 3/7 MiLB - 39/52

 

Tommy Kahnle in save and hold situations - MLB 32/37 (If anyone has hold stats for the minors, I would update the other one too)

[harfman77]

Tommy Kahnle in save and hold situations - MLB 32/37 (If anyone has hold stats for the minors, I would update the other one too)

 

Holds do not equal saves. You will hear baseball people talk all the time that it takes a special mentality to be a closer and you are not going to get back a load of prospects at closer value for a guy with little to no track record of being able to close out games. If DRob is traded tonight and Kahnle goes 10/11 between now and the deadline, you may be able to tap into that value. He had some save opportunities in Colorado and was a closer for a period of time in the Yankees system up to AA.

[Dick Allen]

Holds do not equal saves. You will hear baseball people talk all the time that it takes a special mentality to be a closer and you are not going to get back a load of prospects at closer value for a guy with little to no track record of being able to close out games. If DRob is traded tonight and Kahnle goes 10/11 between now and the deadline, you may be able to tap into that value. He had some save opportunities in Colorado and was a closer for a period of time in the Yankees system up to AA.

Show me a non closer with a nice save percentage. If you come in during the 6th inning with a guy on 3rd and nobody out with your team up 1 run and the run scores, guess what? Blown save. Plus, these guys are in positions where they can't get saves, only blown ones. Makes for a bad percentage and a horrible number to use for guys who aren't closers.

[FT35]

Gotta remember...for teams in the race, the present is heavily weighted in their decisions. A top-100 prospect does nothing to help them now. If you were say the Nationals and you needed bullpen help and had a top-100 prospect in your system who could do what Kahnle is doing right now in the majors, you'd call him up! The problem is...they DON'T have that guy they need in their system. But they do have other good players in their system and if someone told you you could turn that other player into Tommy Kahnle himself, to fill the position you need filled at the MLB level, you'd pull the trigger. You know what Kahnle is capable of doing, you know he fills a need on your team now. No one is talking Robles for Kahnle. That's unrealistic...that would be like us moving Moncada for a solid RP if we were in a pennant race. But I guarantee Kahnle is more valuable to a GM whose team is in the race (and has GLARING bullpen issues) than holding one of his top-100 prospects (whose path to the majors is most likely blocked) in the minors for another year. But then again we're talking about the same organization who shut down Strasburg in the middle of a pennant race and watched their team dwindle to nothing.

 

With Bryce Harper potentially nearing the end of his tenure in Washington, there is a great deal of pressure on the Nationals to win NOW. The whole reason why you play is to be in the pennant race. Sometimes being in that position comes with a price--that's usually prospects. When you're a perennial contender it's usually because your MLB roster is already strong at most positions. Most prospects (who aren't super prospects like Robles), are like kindling. If you're not calling them up to help keep the MLB fire burning, you better be moving them for guys who can help you or else the fire will burn out. Just look at what Washington sacrificed to fill their CF position in December! They are ALL IN--we've been there. It's only a good position to be in if you end up winning it all. The consequence of going all in and not winning it all is...well...we're watching it now with our Sox. Winning it all in Washington is expected--and might be the biggest sales pitch they have to keeping Bryce around for another contract. If I'm a GM, I smell blood in the Washington water. Their prospects are as good as gone by the deadline.

[Knackattack]

It'd probably be smarter to move Robertson & Swarzak at the deadline, slot Kahnle into the closers role to increase his off season value and call up Burdi to get some ML experience

[bmags]

It'd probably be smarter to move Robertson & Swarzak at the deadline, slot Kahnle into the closers role to increase his off season value and call up Burdi to get some ML experience

 

I also believe this but I don't really have good reasons for why it should work.

[Knackattack]

I also believe this but I don't really have good reasons for why it should work.

Yeah our luck Kahnle would fall apart and Burdi would get shelled every outing but I'd like to have at least some faith that this strategy would work in our favor.

[ChiSox59]

Burdi has not earned a call up. Keep him in AAA this year.

Edited June 20, 2017 by ChiSox59

[Bob Sacamano]

Burdi has not earned a call up. Keep him in AAA this year.

 

Agreed. What's wrong with that?

[caulfield12]

Gotta remember...for teams in the race, the present is heavily weighted in their decisions. A top-100 prospect does nothing to help them now. If you were say the Nationals and you needed bullpen help and had a top-100 prospect in your system who could do what Kahnle is doing right now in the majors, you'd call him up! The problem is...they DON'T have that guy they need in their system. But they do have other good players in their system and if someone told you you could turn that other player into Tommy Kahnle himself, to fill the position you need filled at the MLB level, you'd pull the trigger. You know what Kahnle is capable of doing, you know he fills a need on your team now. No one is talking Robles for Kahnle. That's unrealistic...that would be like us moving Moncada for a solid RP if we were in a pennant race. But I guarantee Kahnle is more valuable to a GM whose team is in the race (and has GLARING bullpen issues) than holding one of his top-100 prospects (whose path to the majors is most likely blocked) in the minors for another year. But then again we're talking about the same organization who shut down Strasburg in the middle of a pennant race and watched their team dwindle to nothing.

 

With Bryce Harper potentially nearing the end of his tenure in Washington, there is a great deal of pressure on the Nationals to win NOW. The whole reason why you play is to be in the pennant race. Sometimes being in that position comes with a price--that's usually prospects. When you're a perennial contender it's usually because your MLB roster is already strong at most positions. Most prospects (who aren't super prospects like Robles), are like kindling. If you're not calling them up to help keep the MLB fire burning, you better be moving them for guys who can help you or else the fire will burn out. Just look at what Washington sacrificed to fill their CF position in December! They are ALL IN--we've been there. It's only a good position to be in if you end up winning it all. The consequence of going all in and not winning it all is...well...we're watching it now with our Sox. Winning it all in Washington is expected--and might be the biggest sales pitch they have to keeping Bryce around for another contract. If I'm a GM, I smell blood in the Washington water. Their prospects are as good as gone by the deadline.

 

 

Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon comes to mind....the one area teams used to overpay for non-closers was left handed setup guys (think Marte and Thornton at peak value) with the stuff to get some saves.

[Chicago White Sox]

It'd probably be smarter to move Robertson & Swarzak at the deadline, slot Kahnle into the closers role to increase his off season value and call up Burdi to get some ML experience

I think you're typically better off trading relievers in deadline deals rather than in the offseason. Therefore, I'd market the s*** out Roberson, Kahnle, & Swarzak right now. The problem for us is that Swarzak needs to rebound in the coming weeks to be worth anything of value. That makes it more important to try and get a quality return for Kahnle at this deadline. That would set up Nate Jones to be up big trade chip next year and allow for guys like Putnam & Petricka to get some high leverage innings and potentially build up their value.

[Knackattack]

Burdi has not earned a call up. Keep him in AAA this year.

He has had a couple rough outings, 19 out of his 23 appearances show him with an ERA of 1.57, he has 11 of his 15 ER in 4 of his last 8 appearances so while that could be alarming it could also be chalked up to a real rough week for a young guy. I don't see an issue with seeing if he can get major league hitters out and possibly close for us next year. Jones has proven a bit too fragile to put into such high leverage situations every appearance IMO

[LittleHurt05]

Holds do not equal saves. You will hear baseball people talk all the time that it takes a special mentality to be a closer and you are not going to get back a load of prospects at closer value for a guy with little to no track record of being able to close out games. If DRob is traded tonight and Kahnle goes 10/11 between now and the deadline, you may be able to tap into that value. He had some save opportunities in Colorado and was a closer for a period of time in the Yankees system up to AA.

 

Holds don't equal saves but blown holds equal blown saves. That's my issue with your stats.

[FT35]

Holds don't equal saves but blown holds equal blown saves. That's my issue with your stats.

 

I don't hate the logic. In reality the stats don't always equal out. Many times a guy could come in with the bases loaded and 0 outs--throw a sac fly bringing in the runner from third--then strike out 2 to end the inning--and still gets tagged with the blown hold. To me those "hot potato" situations aren't the easiest to hang a negative stat on a reliever who came in and faced 3 batters and got 3 outs. Whereas many blown saves happen from starting the 9th inning fresh with no base runners. Also the 9th inning is a different animal in many ways--pinch hitters galore, the heart of the order more times than not, the crowd...etc... Maybe your logic would sit better if we were just talking clean-inning blown holds/saves--even though the 9th inning element is still looming.

Edited June 21, 2017 by FT35

[OmarComing25]

I don't hate the logic. In reality the stats don't always equal out. Many times a guy could come in with the bases loaded and 0 outs--throw a sac fly bringing in the runner from third--then strike out 2 to end the inning--and still gets tagged with the blown hold. To me those "hot potato" situations aren't the easiest to hang a negative stat on a reliever who came in and faced 3 batters and got 3 outs. Whereas many blown saves happen from starting the 9th inning fresh with no base runners. Also the 9th inning is a different animal in many ways--pinch hitters galore, the heart of the order more times than not, the crowd...etc... Maybe your logic would sit better if we were just talking clean-inning blown holds/saves--even though the 9th inning element is still looming.

Wait why would the heart of the order come up in the 9th inning more often than not, that doesn't make sense.

[FT35]

Wait why would the heart of the order come up in the 9th inning more often than not, that doesn't make sense.

 

It's just one of those things that seems to happen more times than not. I've scoured the internet for a number but it's tough to find. You hear announcers talk about it a lot--even Hawk refers to it sometimes as "just the way Abner designed it." If nothing else, you're usually facing the 3 best eligible bats when you factor in the pinch hitting that takes place.

[username]

Dusty just left Scherzer in at 120+ pitches to face Giancarlo Stanton with the bases loaded to avoid the bullpen. Predictably didn't end well

 

You can't make this stuff up. I was watching the home broadcast and they kept talking about how Dusty would've clearly gone to a closer if he had one.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Username

[southsider2k5]

Dusty just left Scherzer in at 120+ pitches to face Giancarlo Stanton with the bases loaded to avoid the bullpen. Predictably didn't end well

 

You can't make this stuff up. I was watching the home broadcast and they kept talking about how Dusty would've clearly gone to a closer if he had one.

 

It sucks when you can trust your pen, so you try to stretch your starter. It is a no win... well except for the White Sox.

[harfman77]

Dusty just left Scherzer in at 120+ pitches to face Giancarlo Stanton with the bases loaded to avoid the bullpen.

 

You can't make this stuff up. I was watching the home broadcast and they kept talking about how Dusty would've clearly gone to a closer if he had one.

 

He had also only given up one hit to that point and had two outs. Ended the game with 121 pitches.

[iamshack]

He had also only given up one hit to that point and had two outs. Ended the game with 121 pitches.

He is one of those guys that is a horse and throws a lot of pitches. That being said, this is not something you want to begin impacting your starters because the problem bleeds into their usage.