Panerista Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) History has shown us that the Sox are getting more than expected for big ticket items. Just saying. That and that Hahn is willing to wait. So while we're all excited about moving more talent for prospects, we might have to wait a week or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 02:17 PM) The goal should be Robertson & cash for Kieboom & Luzardo. Hell, I'd probably throw Swarzak in too if necessary, although I'd probably want a lottery ticket added to the mix. Kieboom would provide us with a high-end prospect that could eventually fill in on the left side of the infield and Luzardo gives us a much needed left-handed arm. I love your posts, but I have to admit, this comes off as a bit presumptuous. Why should that be the goal? We've seen some crazy s*** just happen. Now we're going to immediately go back to saying that we're all crazy? I get it, Hahn isn't a miracle worker, but I, for one, am a little gunshy about saying something as prescriptive as you just did. We were just told by a few different posters something to the effect of "Guys, stop even bothering to think about a trade with the Cubs. It simply will never happen." Well, it just happened. Disclaimer: I am not meaning to insinuate this is all directed at you, CWS, you just happened to be the guy that triggered my rant. My apologies in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) I love your posts, but I have to admit, this comes off as a bit presumptuous. Why should that be the goal? We've seen some crazy s*** just happen. Now we're going to immediately go back to saying that we're all crazy? Seriously though, all of us here need to stop pretending that we know what is and isn't available. A lot of my favorite posters on this site have been doing this and it's been driving me nuts. Nobody knows what every GM is willing or not willing to give up. Edited July 13, 2017 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) I love your posts, but I have to admit, this comes off as a bit presumptuous. Why should that be the goal? We've seen some crazy s*** just happen. Now we're going to immediately go back to saying that we're all crazy? I get it, Hahn isn't a miracle worker, but I, for one, am a little gunshy about saying something as prescriptive as you just did. We were just told by a few different posters something to the effect of "Guys, stop even bothering to think about a trade with the Cubs. It simply will never happen." Well, it just happened. Disclaimer: I am not meaning to insinuate this is all directed at you, CWS, you just happened to be the guy that triggered my rant. My apologies in advance. It's all good. Don't get me wrong, start with something ridiculous like Robertson & Kahnle for for Robles. If/when that doesn't fly, make a hard push for Soto in some capacity. All I'm saying is that getting Kieboom & Luzardo would be a very acceptable package to me for Robertson. I agree go for something better, but it's definitely something I'd be more than ok with if push came to shove. But now that Quintana has been successfully moved, I think Hahn has a little bit more ability to play some poker with his remaining chips. Much less pressure on him now than there was 24 hours ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 02:37 PM) Seriously though, all of us here need to stop pretending that we know what is and isn't available. A lot of my favorite posters on this site have been doing this and it's been driving me nuts. Nobody knows what every GM is willing or not willing to give up. I don't even mind someone arguing that is the case! I just cannot stand when someone waves a hand at me without ever engaging in a discussion of why they disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:43 PM) I don't even mind someone arguing that is the case! I just cannot stand when someone waves a hand at me without ever engaging in a discussion of why they disagree. I agree. Just like anything an argument to any case is fair but there's been plenty of people(and like I said some of my favorite posters here too) that continue to think they absolutely know who is and isn't available when in reality, nobody does. It's just become a Soxtalk pet peeve of mine. Edited July 13, 2017 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Passan was on the Score and thought Dodgers would go after Britton, Doolittle and a righty. Made it sound like they want to add three relievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) Passan was on the Score and thought Dodgers would go after Britton, Doolittle and a righty. Made it sound like they want to add three relievers. Damn. They'd be scary good but I really think they need a SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Should we create just a general reliever trade thread at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:33 PM) I love your posts, but I have to admit, this comes off as a bit presumptuous. Why should that be the goal? We've seen some crazy s*** just happen. Now we're going to immediately go back to saying that we're all crazy? I get it, Hahn isn't a miracle worker, but I, for one, am a little gunshy about saying something as prescriptive as you just did. We were just told by a few different posters something to the effect of "Guys, stop even bothering to think about a trade with the Cubs. It simply will never happen." Well, it just happened. Disclaimer: I am not meaning to insinuate this is all directed at you, CWS, you just happened to be the guy that triggered my rant. My apologies in advance. I think you're sleeping on Kieboom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 The BA podcast was saying Fedde was in plans for bullpen for Nats (along with Romero lol) so he may be held back from a trade. I'd really like Kieboom. His age and position add a lot of balance. SS is prob our weakest org position even if he's a 3b long term. I wouldn't mind if we got LHP for Robertson either. Man I'm glad we didn't just get drew ward and lizards for DRob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) Tampa Bay could certainly use another reliever. Could use a 2B too. I'd like to see Cooper get his hands on Blake Snell - looks like a good fix-em project. I see a team that could use Melky.....Royals. Edited July 14, 2017 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) History has shown us that the Sox are getting more than expected for big ticket items. Just saying. One thing that concerns me now...the press has universally been praising Hahn for his last 3 trades and the returns he's gotten...and I'm thinking Rizzo (who's still probably a little butthurt)...but Rizzo or any GM might be a little leery being "the next GM" to get fleeced by Hahn. Ricky has done a masterful job with this rebuild so far for sure...but I'm almost thinking we're not getting what we want for Robertson unless it's a nice package that includes more than just DRob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:44 AM) One thing that concerns me now...the press has universally been praising Hahn for his last 3 trades and the returns he's gotten...and I'm thinking Rizzo (who's still probably a little butthurt)...but Rizzo or any GM might be a little leery being "the next GM" to get fleeced by Hahn. Ricky has done a masterful job with this rebuild so far for sure...but I'm almost thinking we're not getting what we want for Robertson unless it's a nice package that includes more than just DRob. I feel like this last trade was different than the first two because hearing people talk about it on the news it seemed like they thought it was a fair trade, not to mention how many Cubs fans think they won the trade, and the common person will probably think it went the Cubs way in a few weeks if they start turning it around. Rizzo might still have his head spinning from that Eaton trade, but I don't think this Quintana trade made it any less likely we will trade with the Nats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 If we get less than we want for Robertson it's probably more due to money. Because Hahn has been aggressive in getting trades out early in the trading seasons, he's set market for everyone. Not just white Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:44 AM) One thing that concerns me now...the press has universally been praising Hahn for his last 3 trades and the returns he's gotten...and I'm thinking Rizzo (who's still probably a little butthurt)...but Rizzo or any GM might be a little leery being "the next GM" to get fleeced by Hahn. Ricky has done a masterful job with this rebuild so far for sure...but I'm almost thinking we're not getting what we want for Robertson unless it's a nice package that includes more than just DRob. While Hahn was praised for getting good value, the only trade in which the serious media suggested he did any fleecing on was the Eaton trade. And any fleecing he did on the Eaton trade is less than the extent to which he was fleeced on the Shields trade, so I doubt any GM will hesitate in dealing with him. I think people were surprised that Hahn could get could value for these players in this environment, which is not always easy to do. Serious GMs want win-win trades. All a GM has to do is look at how Sale is pitching Edited July 14, 2017 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 04:55 AM) While Hahn was praised for getting good value, the only trade in which the serious media suggested he did any fleecing on was the Eaton trade. And any fleecing he did on the Eaton trade is less than the extent to which he was fleeced on the Shields trade, so I doubt any GM will hesitate in dealing with him. I think people were surprised that Hahn could get could value for these players in this environment, which is not always easy to do. Serious GMs want win-win trades. All a GM has to do is look at how Sale is pitching I didn't get the sense that Theo or the Cubs would be criticized for making this move. I actually think Theo being willing to do this somewhat dispels the notion that Rick has his sights set too high. Hopefully other GMs will step in now (Hello, Mike Rizzo!) and under the cover which Theo has provided and have the spine to augment their ballclubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 07:11 AM) I didn't get the sense that Theo or the Cubs would be criticized for making this move. I actually think Theo being willing to do this somewhat dispels the notion that Rick has his sights set too high. Hopefully other GMs will step in now (Hello, Mike Rizzo!) and under the cover which Theo has provided and have the spine to augment their ballclubs. Professional GMs understood the true value of Quintana (although few were willing to pay it). Fans (not the Sox fans, but others) way undervalued him. But by the same token, I think fans may over value Robertson. He's 37 in WAR among relief pitchers (maybe he's better than that on the more advanced stats - don't know). I think any real value is tied to "proven closer" - which probably begins and ends with Nats. By the same token, Swarzak is #8. Wonder how high the sights are set on him; not sure where they should be set either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 06:06 AM) Professional GMs understood the true value of Quintana (although few were willing to pay it). Fans (not the Sox fans, but others) way undervalued him. But by the same token, I think fans may over value Robertson. He's 37 in WAR among relief pitchers (maybe he's better than that on the more advanced stats - don't know). I think any real value is tied to "proven closer" - which probably begins and ends with Nats. By the same token, Swarzak is #8. Wonder how high the sights are set on him; not sure where they should be set either. In regards to Robertson, that's because he's a "closer" on a team that doesn't win much. It's tied to his usage. Swarzak gets a lot of high leverage situations which ideally, on a better team or even just on a team where he was utilized more properly, David would get too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:13 AM) In regards to Robertson, that's because he's a "closer" on a team that doesn't win much. It's tied to his usage. Swarzak gets a lot of high leverage situations which ideally, on a better team or even just on a team where he was utilized more properly, David would get too. Yeah, he has gotten remarkably few save situations, and has pitched in a lot of garbage situations just to get him usage. In fact a team trading for him should know that he has pretty low mileage on him this year, which should be a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:13 AM) In regards to Robertson, that's because he's a "closer" on a team that doesn't win much. It's tied to his usage. Swarzak gets a lot of high leverage situations which ideally, on a better team or even just on a team where he was utilized more properly, David would get too. That's true. Volume is an ingredient in WAR. I think Swarzak has earned his #8. He's produced in those high leverage situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Nationals promoting relievers Trevor Gott and Austin Adams. Sammy Solis back to minors. K-Rod not currently under consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:40 AM) Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Nationals promoting relievers Trevor Gott and Austin Adams. Sammy Solis back to minors. K-Rod not currently under consideration. The Nats bullpen is like the village bicycle. Everyone gets a turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:40 AM) Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Nationals promoting relievers Trevor Gott and Austin Adams. Sammy Solis back to minors. K-Rod not currently under consideration. Last ditch effort to figure out who can stick before deciding how many guys you need before deadline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:55 AM) Last ditch effort to figure out who can stick before deciding how many guys you need before deadline? No team is going to find success in the playoffs without a quality bullpen. Right now the Nationals do not have any trustworthy relievers, in a year in which they desperately need several. Packaging Robertson + Kahnle/Swarzak + some salary relief for a juicy return would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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