How does adding Robert affect our MiLB ranking?

[Real]

According to MLB.com, their farm system rankings put the Sox at number three behind #1 ATL, and #2 NYY (Though NYY's includes Judge, who is already a major leaguer now...)

 

Does adding Robert to our system bump the Sox up one place?

 

Or, in general where do you think we rank now after adding him?

[hi8is]

2

[Real]

Here's an updated BA top-100 prospect list

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/top-...VwmTrXMMtAO2.97

 

[southsider2k5]

I would say it improves it.

[caulfield12]

Might as well trade Q for Jimenez and Happ.

 

Except they would probably offer Jimenez, Clifton (AA) and Schwarber instead at this point. And Cubs' fans would still be pissed, while Sox fans would argue we got robbed.

 

 

#1 with a bullet!!!

Edited May 20, 2017 by caulfield12

[SouthSide2004]

The problem for us is still depth. Obviously I would rather be top heavy than deep, but once Moncada, Lopez, Fulmer, & Burdi get called up this season and lose prospect status, our system is going to take a huge hit. Robert helps big time though and hopefully trading Quintana & Robertson (and potentially others) will as well.

[thxfrthmmrs]

If Giolito, Collins and Fulmer were having great seasons there is a strong case for #1. But they aren't so I'd say around top 5.

[caulfield12]

If Giolito, Collins and Fulmer were having great seasons there is a strong case for #1. But they aren't so I'd say around top 5.

 

Collins' average is down, but the walks, OPS and especially defensive accolades to stick at catcher lift him overall.

 

Dunning flew up the rankings but has hit a wall now. Nevertheless, his stock has risen.

 

Fulmer was already out of the Top 100 and if not for that rough last start would be a sub 3 ERA guy. We could also argue that Hansen's rise has balanced any descent from Giolito. Moncada has answered most of the doubts from the end of last year and is consensus #1.

Edited May 20, 2017 by caulfield12

[thxfrthmmrs]

Collins' average is down, but the walks, OPS and especially defensive accolades to stick at catcher lift him overall.

 

Dunning flew up the rankings but has hit a wall now. Nevertheless, his stock has risen.

 

Fulmer was already out of the Top 100 and if not for that rough last start would be a sub 3 ERA guy. We could also argue that Hansen's rise has balanced any descent from Giolito. Moncada has answered most of the doubts from the end of last year and is consensus #1.

 

Everything Collins has done is nice, but hitting in the .220s in the A ball as a 22 year old can only hurt your stock. Dunning's stock have has gone up some, but until he could prove his Low A dominance isn't due to age gap, he's still not a top prospect. Fulmer has rebounded nicely, but not sure if he's back in top 100 yet.

 

Hansen is still in Low A, he has got a lot more to prove before he could "balance" the fall of Giolito.

[SouthSide2004]

Everything Collins has done is nice, but hitting in the .220s in the A ball as a 22 year old can only hurt your stock. Dunning's stock have has gone up some, but until he could prove his Low A dominance isn't due to age gap, he's still not a top prospect. Fulmer has rebounded nicely, but not sure if he's back in top 100 yet.

 

Hansen is still in Low A, he has got a lot more to prove before he could "balance" the fall of Giolito.

I think you're being too harsh on Collins. The K rate isn't great, but really isn't that bad for a power hitter who walks 20% of his plate appearances. He's also had some bad luck if his BABIP is any indication. Furthermore, like most developing young catchers, his focus has probably been on defense and we've seen great strides in this area. Without question his stock is way up this year despite a low batter average, because now he looks like just make stick at catcher in the long-run.

[SoxAce]

He only has 4 less hits than last season in the same number of at bats.. almost identical numbers as I pointed out in the game thread yesterday. He'll be fine.

[steveno89]

He only has 4 less hits than last season in the same number of at bats.. almost identical numbers as I pointed out in the game thread yesterday. He'll be fine.

 

Collins stock is actually up in my book because of the improvement he had seen defensively at the catcher position. He still had a ways to go, but he is getting better each day and showing signs he can stick behind the plate where he is far more valuable.

Edited May 21, 2017 by steveno89

[fathom]

He only has 4 less hits than last season in the same number of at bats.. almost identical numbers as I pointed out in the game thread yesterday. He'll be fine.

 

I agree, I don't think he was ever going to be a high avg hitter. I do think he won't rise much in rankings though by those that scout the stat line

[steveno89]

I agree, I don't think he was ever going to be a high avg hitter. I do think he won't rise much in rankings though by those that scout the stat line

 

Collins has also homered 4 times in his last 8 games, so he very well could be heading up at the plate

[spiderman]

Is Robert a top 100 prospect? If so, where do you expect him to fall in those rankings?

[SouthSide2004]

Is Robert a top 100 prospect? If so, where do you expect him to fall in those rankings?

I've seen most speculation say somewhere in the top 25.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Collins stock is actually up in my book because of the improvement he had seen defensively at the catcher position. He still had a ways to go, but he is getting better each day and showing signs he can stick behind the plate where he is far more valuable.

 

Up from what though? He was already ranked 56 by BA in preseason, and I think that's with the expectation that he will continue to hit this season, but he hasn't done that yet. It's hard to go higher than that by hitting .220 in A ball, despite the defensive improvements.

[spiderman]

I've seen most speculation say somewhere in the top 25.

 

I heard on another site that Keith Law wouldn't have him in the Top 100.

[Jose Abreu]

I heard on another site that Keith Law wouldn't have him in the Top 100.

Well, he's Keith Law.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I heard on another site that Keith Law wouldn't have him in the Top 100.

But he's the best hitter on the planet !

[Panerista]

The problem for us is still depth. Obviously I would rather be top heavy than deep, but once Moncada, Lopez, Fulmer, & Burdi get called up this season and lose prospect status, our system is going to take a huge hit. Robert helps big time though and hopefully trading Quintana & Robertson (and potentially others) will as well.

1) We're going to be bad for a while. Depth is not a concern when your team is not competitive

2) If we were playing to win, our system ranking would only be moderately important

[Jerksticks]

I understand how rebuilds take a while and seasons of sucking are to be expected.

 

But how bad can a team with Abreu, Avi, Anderson, Moncada, Quintana, Rodon, Burdi, Jones and Kahnle be? Add in all the nice upside that comes with L Garcia & Sanchez's improvements, Davidson & Narvaez holding their own, Fulmer, Lopez & Kopech knocking at the door... I just don't see how this team is going to be bad for a while, if even this season. This team is better than last year's arguably now, but for sure when the AAA guys come up...despite losing Sale and Eaton. f***in Avi Wine Mixer.

 

Just sayin

 

 

[caulfield12]

Suck it, Keith Law

 

 

With most of the big spenders benched by past largesse and a rare chance to pursue young, elite talent, the Cardinals made their bid for Cuban teen Luis Robert early last week.

 

They had a few days to realize it wasn’t good enough.

 

Once viewed as a favorite to sign Robert, the Cardinals were notified, formally, by Saturday that the outfielder had selected another team’s offer. The Chicago White Sox, arguably the team that had been the most aggressive in their pursuit, had an agreement in place with Robert, one for a bonus reportedly in the range between $25 million and $30 million. The Cardinals were left with the impression their bonus was trumped. They did not have a chance to top.

 

“If I had a guess it would be the overall bidding,” general manager John Mozeliak said. “What I know is that we didn’t sign him. All negotiations have different nuances. All negotiations have different risks. All negotiations have different upside. This was certainly a unique opportunity for us because historically we are not playing or trying to sign these types of players. I don’t second-guess our strategy or second-guess our approach.”

 

As the Cardinals’ interest in Robert gathered momentum, Mozeliak took on a large presence in the negotiation. He flew to the Dominican Republic to meet Robert and his representatives personally, and the Cardinals attended at least three of Robert’s workouts, formally or informally.The Cardinals identified this signing period, from this past July 2 to June 15, as the time to overshoot their spending limit on international amateurs. With the Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, and other fat cats limited by recent overtures, the Cardinals, and other teams like San Diego, saw the market bending to their preference.

 

Already the Cardinals have spent more than $9.4 million in known bonuses on this international class, and that does not include the $2.5-million bonus Cuban outfielder Adolis Garcia received during spring. They will have their bonuses capped for two years.

 

By far eclipsing their spending limit, the Cardinals have invited a dollar-for-dollar tax on most of that spending, and any bonus offered Robert would have been doubled. At one point, the estimate was a total cost of slightly more than $40 million, which would have been a bonus of slightly more than $20 million.

 

The White Sox, with tax, could spend more than $50 million.

 

“When you’re looking at the overall investment it’s real and historically there aren’t too many players who sign for those type of dollars,” Mozeliak said. “It’s really hard to justify those types of dollars for any player with a lack of a proven track record. No matter how you try to equate the Cuban league or his international experience, it’s very hard to calibrate what that means to here (in the majors). Our baseball development did a good job of trying to position this as why we wanted to go through the chase.”

 

The Cardinals, privately, did not hide how talented they thought Robert was — and the harbingers he had of future success. Robert, 19, is considered by many scouts to be the finest teen amateur available. The 6-foot-3 righthanded hitter has routinely been the best player in international tournaments. He has been likened to a first-round pick, the likes of which the Cardinals haven’t had access to in recent years and won’t this year after giving two picks to Houston as punishment for the hacking scandal. The White Sox’s wooing of Robert included the large bonus and, according to CSNChicago.com, a video that featured Spanish-speaking manager Rick Renteria and highlighted fellow Cuban stars Jose Abreu and Yoan Moncada.

 

The miss on Robert continues a run of runnerup or worse finishes for the Cardinals when it comes to coveted free agents. They came up shy in bids for two Korean players before signing closer Seung Hwan Oh as a free agent, and before 2016 failed in attempts to sign free-agent pitcher David Price. The Cardinals adhere to a model they use to calculate value, and there have been times when the market moves and the model does not.

 

“I don’t know yet if we are the bridesmaid,” Mozeliak said. “People are like, ‘You’re flushed with cash. Roll the dice.’ That’s a lot of money. That money might be redeployed elsewhere now. It will.”

 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/pr...14b8b74563.html

Edited May 21, 2017 by caulfield12

[Dominikk85]

Btw im pretty sure it means abreu is not traded within the next year.I think a big reason why he signed was abreu and moncada so they prbably keep abreu around for a year or two to give the two cuban prospects a big brother.

[HoosierSox]

I heard on another site that Keith Law wouldn't have him in the Top 100.

So Law will put Tatis Jr. in the top 100 but not Robert who looks like a 5 tool player. SMH.