Walking Out of Graduations Like Notre Dame's

[caulfield12]

Because 85 percent of the students there are Catholic and I showed you the Catholic position on being gay, the official position. It flat out says this type of sex is wrong. So .... why in the hell are they attending ND to begin with when the Catholic religion is like this?? Just like Pence. Now Reddy educated me on that terrific statement by ND on gays. I LOVE their stance. However if you read what Reddy provided me, there's nothing in that document on the church's position on same sex sexual activity. I'm confused because if they are that worked up to walk out on Pence, they sure as hell should not be attending ND out of protest.

 

 

No. I do what I feel is right. I feel like all organized religions probably have something I disagree with. I'm not perfect. I like my religion for various reasons. I like community worship. I feel good in a church (yes it's selfish of me I guess). I feel good among fellow worshipers. I like to observe people and I enjoy seeing happy people for an hour every Sunday. Sure I approve of the homosexual orientation. I'll try to get it right and use the right word, not lifestyle. Sorry if I offended.

 

 

Sorry about that. I definitely approve of all sexual orientations.

 

 

I feel like if they are going to protest Pence, they should show some guts and protest everything about ND because the church it is founded on is 100 percent in agreement with Pence on social issues.

 

 

Yeah I agree with your third sentence for sure. Obviously they are not evil.

 

 

Then why is it 85 percent Catholic? Well a big reason is the Catholic high schools of which I went to in Chicago feed kids to ND as well as the Benedictine schools. 85 percent are Catholic students! That's 15 percent non Catholic. And they are mad at Pence but not their leaders at ND???

 

 

Greg, by this argument, you should be protesting your own church or dropping out.

 

Certainly, there has to be 15-20% of a Church's teaching (Catholic/Christian, etc.) that we disagree with or don't feel all that strongly about.

 

What's most important, the "core belief" or quibbling about every little issue?

 

Seriously, if you read the New Testament literally, it promises hell for those who basically (should) know that being homosexual is wrong, if you don't confront those individuals with your evidence/testimony...you're basically condoning their actions. And yet how many church members (besides Fred Phelps' in your neck of the woods) do this? Does Tim Tebow even get in people's faces and preach to gay people and try to convert them, for instance? It's highly unusual in society today.

[greg775]

I'd bet a good percentage of the straight Catholics who attend ND participate in sex outside of wedlock & for reasons other than for procreation. Care to enlighten the board on Catholicism's stance of extramarital sex, Greg? Why would these good Catholics go to ND if they engage in this perverse behavior?

Excellent post. Food for thought. At least I acknowledge such. Nobody ever gives me credit when I am winning an argument. Cough, Mike Trout. but good point. Sex is against the rulebook, yes it is. That's the first point that to me has made sense. Yes I'd say of the 85 percent of the Cathlics who go to Notre Dame, 80 to 85 percent of them refuse to abide by the premarital sex item in the rulebook. Although I have read Millenials aren't that into sex or marriage, either one.

 

Greg, by this argument, you should be protesting your own church or dropping out.

 

Certainly, there has to be 15-20% of a Church's teaching (Catholic/Christian, etc.) that we disagree with or don't feel all that strongly about.

 

What's most important, the "core belief" or quibbling about every little issue?

 

Seriously, if you read the New Testament literally, it promises hell for those who basically (should) know that being homosexual is wrong, if you don't confront those individuals with your evidence/testimony...you're basically condoning their actions. And yet how many church members (besides Fred Phelps' in your neck of the woods) do this? Does Tim Tebow even get in people's faces and preach to gay people and try to convert them, for instance? It's highly unusual in society today.

Another good post. Food for thought. Good stuff.

Edited May 22, 2017 by greg775

[BlackSox13]

Sadly, the leaders of the Catholic religion haven't always been paragons of virtue. Not sure what it says in "the rules" about pedophilia, but, for the record, I'm opposed to it.

This post is awesome!

 

FWIW, I too am opposed.

[BlackSox13]

I'd bet a good percentage of the straight Catholics who attend ND participate in sex outside of wedlock & for reasons other than for procreation. Care to enlighten the board on Catholicism's stance of extramarital sex, Greg? Why would these good Catholics go to ND if they engage in this perverse behavior?

This could be interesting. IIRC, Greg has a friend involved in an extramarital affair...

[ptatc]

I've literally already stated repeatedly that most kids don't choose their college over its religious ideology. Moreover, a historical relationship with a religion doesn't mean a school follows the tenants of that religion verbatim, and in their original context.

 

Do you seriously think that every historically catholic or jesuit institution infuses religion into their required coursework and campus life? I can promise you that's not the case.

Really? At Marquette we were required to take a religion course. I thought all Jesuit schools had that requirement.

[ptatc]

And they did it in the most civil way possible. They didn't make a scene, they didn't interrupt, they turned their backs and walked out to make their point, yet let him make his speech. Good for them.

 

But greg thinks these kids are stupid for attending a top 20 university because his religion hates gay people

You do see the irony/contradiction here though, right?

 

You have students who want tolerance, yet they won't listen to a person speak.

 

You have students who feel so strongly against a person/topic that they are protesting and leaving. Yet they are accepting a degree from a school whose organization is against the same topic.

 

A student who could into Notre Dame could get into any number of quality schools who don't offend their beliefs as well.

 

I really don't care what they do it just seems contradictory.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by ptatc

[Steve9347]

Cool. I don't even really know what gay conversion therapy is. Do you deny however that it is still a sin in the catholic rulebook? Do Catholics not run Notre Dame?

https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality

I have no idea why people continue to take this guy's bait.

[bigruss]

You do see the irony/contradiction here though, right?

 

You have students who want tolerance, yet they won't listen to a person speak.

Wanting tolerance does not mean they HAVE to listen to someone who is intolerant.

 

You have students who feel so strongly against a person/topic that they are protesting and leaving. Yet they are accepting a degree from a school whose organization is against the same topic.

Is ND against gays? Where did ND and Pence's views on gay rights intersect?

 

A student who could into Notre Dame could get into any number of quality schools who don't offend their beliefs as well.

 

I really don't care what they do it just seems contradictory.

 

Falling in love with a school does not mean you will always agree with their stances. I love Illinois, but I've disagreed with statements and policies in the past. That doesn't mean I wouldn't go there again, it does mean that I will try and do what I can to influence the university to make changes though.

[GoSox05]

My thoughts as well. Most of those kids had their parents pay 200K to get that education. To walk out for some attention on the day of celebration is pretty petty to me. Par for the generation though.

 

It's a protest. It's not new to this generation.

 

 

 

 

[bigruss]

My thoughts as well. Most of those kids had their parents pay 200K to get that education. To walk out for some attention on the day of celebration is pretty petty to me. Par for the generation though.

So the kids lose their rights because their parents paid for their education?

 

If parent's don't want to support their children's ability to think, to want change, to better their world then maybe they shouldn't have paid for the education in the first place.

[bigruss]

"Why aren't people tolerant of my intolerant beliefs?"

 

That questions always amuses me.

[StrangeSox]

Should probably just cut off the silly "so much for the tolerant left" nonsense

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[StrangeSox]

"social brownie points" "for some attention"

 

Sure sounds like a good faith approach to the topic to me!

[BigSqwert]

They're not bettering the world by not listening to Mike Pence's speech.

 

So you would have attended no matter who was speaking? Joseph Kony? Kim Jong Un?

[GoSox05]

Yeah I know. I just don't see how their blatant intolerance for others' beliefs changed anything. This is from someone who is vehemently against religious based philosophies.

 

Blatant intolerance for others beliefs. I'm sick of hearing this saying.

 

They didn't agree with the speakers beliefs, so they did a walk out. Should they have been forced to sit there and listen to Mike Pence. Maybe by force?

[NorthSideSox72]

I think it's a healthy thing. Protests by nature are as effective as the level of noise they generate. They succeeded. Social protest is something to be applauded, as long as there's no violence involved.

 

[southsider2k5]

My thoughts as well. Most of those kids had their parents pay 200K to get that education. To walk out for some attention on the day of celebration is pretty petty to me. Par for the generation though.

 

More like par for society anymore. Everyone gets hurt feelings so easily these days, even the people who love to drop terms like snowflakes are so busy talking about how unfair and mean the media is to Donald Trump.

 

I have seen people from Mike Pence to Bill Clinton speak in person. I think a large part of life is seeing what the other side sees, instead of treating them like an infectious disease. The best way to change hearts and minds is to really understand the other side, and not just through the talking points you are given. Understanding why Mike Pence exists is way more important than what Mike Pence has to say. Walking out on a speech is the easy way out.

[southsider2k5]

So you would have attended no matter who was speaking? Joseph Kony? Kim Jong Un?

 

Personally, I would have a morbid sense of curiosity about what makes them tick and to see how they work a crowd.

[ptatc]

Wanting tolerance does not mean they HAVE to listen to someone who is intolerant.

 

 

Is ND against gays? Where did ND and Pence's views on gay rights intersect?

 

 

 

Falling in love with a school does not mean you will always agree with their stances. I love Illinois, but I've disagreed with statements and policies in the past. That doesn't mean I wouldn't go there again, it does mean that I will try and do what I can to influence the university to make changes though.

As a school based in Catholic religion, pretty much.

 

I agree with the not always agreeing with the stance of the school. But for someone to disagree with the stance enough to stage a protest but still not care about it enough to attend the school is just funny.

 

Did you disagree with Illinois enough to stage an active protest?

[ptatc]

Personally, I would have a morbid sense of curiosity about what makes them tick and to see how they work a crowd.

Me too.

 

I tend to want to listen to people who disagree with me more than the ones who agree with me. I try to figure out or understand the point of view.

[NorthSideSox72]

Personally, I would have a morbid sense of curiosity about what makes them tick and to see how they work a crowd.

I personally would not have walked out, but that's me. If some of my cohorts did, fine, that's up to them.

 

Your post reminds me, my brother in law used to be a journalist for the Trib. Went to a school event where Jesse Jackson (senior) was speaking. As he was getting started, a fight broke out. Somehow, from the podium using just his words, he managed to bring things back down to level.

 

I don't like Jesse, never have, but I would have been very interested to watch that happen. He was a gifted speaker.

 

[southsider2k5]

I personally would not have walked out, but that's me. If some of my cohorts did, fine, that's up to them.

 

Your post reminds me, my brother in law used to be a journalist for the Trib. Went to a school event where Jesse Jackson (senior) was speaking. As he was getting started, a fight broke out. Somehow, from the podium using just his words, he managed to bring things back down to level.

 

I don't like Jesse, never have, but I would have been very interested to watch that happen. He was a gifted speaker.

 

While I don't really like the guy at all, I would LOVE to see Jackson speak in person. He is a guy who is legendary for being a gifted speaker. I almost throw him in the same sort of category as Bill Clinton. I can't stand the guy, I think he is a spineless con-artist who I have zero respect for. But when he came to my hometown in 2007, I had to go see him speak. Watching him work a room was really impressive. Almost more impressive was watching him work the people in person after the speech.

 

Despite my personal point of view on Clinton, I can't imagine missing out on seeing a President speak.

[NorthSideSox72]

While I don't really like the guy at all, I would LOVE to see Jackson speak in person. He is a guy who is legendary for being a gifted speaker. I almost throw him in the same sort of category as Bill Clinton. I can't stand the guy, I think he is a spineless con-artist who I have zero respect for. But when he came to my hometown in 2007, I had to go see him speak. Watching him work a room was really impressive. Almost more impressive was watching him work the people in person after the speech.

 

Despite my personal point of view on Clinton, I can't imagine missing out on seeing a President speak.

Yeah, people know how much I despise Trump, but I would be open to seeing him speak. I also though, would have no problem with people protesting him outside or inside the doors as long as it didn't start a riot or something.

 

[Reddy]

How many times am I going to have to repeat this?

 

The term "tolerance" does not include tolerating someone's intolerance. You can't call me intolerant for being critical of a member of the KKK. That's not how that works.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, people know how much I despise Trump, but I would be open to seeing him speak. I also though, would have no problem with people protesting him outside or inside the doors as long as it didn't start a riot or something.

 

I'd stand next to you to compare notes.