Walking Out of Graduations Like Notre Dame's

[Reddy]

Cool. I don't even really know what gay conversion therapy is. Do you deny however that it is still a sin in the catholic rulebook? Do Catholics not run Notre Dame?

https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality

 

Holy s***.

[greg775]

And you are a proud Catholic, right?

I said we welcome all people. I welcome all people. I support all people. If its against the rules then I'm breaking the rules. Too bad.

[Quin]

Isn't...like, being born a sin in Catholicism?

[greg775]

I WENT TO A CATHOLIC SCHOOL! I'M AN ATHEIST. THIS IS NORMAL.

OK. But you see no merit to my point at all?

[Reddy]

No. especially since I didn't even know what it was til a minute ago. I didn't know that's all the students were miffed about regarding Pence. That it was that cut and dried. My bad if they were protesting his stance on gay conversion therapy.

I guess I'm wrong on my Notre Dame stance. I just thought it weird you'd go to ND if you fully supported gay rights.

I've literally already stated repeatedly that most kids don't choose their college over its religious ideology. Moreover, a historical relationship with a religion doesn't mean a school follows the tenants of that religion verbatim, and in their original context.

 

Do you seriously think that every historically catholic or jesuit institution infuses religion into their required coursework and campus life? I can promise you that's not the case.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Reddy

[Reddy]

OK. But you see no merit to my point at all?

None.

 

Any kid at ND who supports those views stayed put in their seat.

[greg775]

Can you support that the administration of Notre Dame University supports gay conversion therapy? With evidence? Thanks.

Notre Dame may not support that, but read the last paragraph of the link I sent.

 

"Homosexuals who want to live chastely can contact Courage, a national, Church-approved support group for help in deliverance from the homosexual lifestyle."

 

So it is official policy to want to help "deliver people" from the lifestyle. You might not want to call it conversion therapy but it's something in terms of trying to get you to quit the lifestyle.

 

[Middle Buffalo]

Sadly, the leaders of the Catholic religion haven't always been paragons of virtue. Not sure what it says in "the rules" about pedophilia, but, for the record, I'm opposed to it.

[Reddy]

Notre Dame may not support that, but read the last paragraph of the link I sent.

 

"Homosexuals who want to live chastely can contact Courage, a national, Church-approved support group for help in deliverance from the homosexual lifestyle."

 

So it is official policy to want to help "deliver people" from the lifestyle. You might not want to call it conversion therapy but it's something in terms of trying to get you to quit the lifestyle.

I cannot even begin to unpack all of the ignorance in this statement. There is so much wrong here, coming from a guy who a few posts ago professed "I support everybody".

 

Unbelievable.

[LittleHurt05]

OK I see your point. It still seems strange they'd go to a school run by Catholic priests and monsignors. You are saying they don't think about that at all. Well then why the hell are they thinking about the guest speaker?

 

 

No I understand why they hate Pence.

My point is they are going to a school where they should hate all the leaders. Cause they share Pence's opinion on the matter.

 

Notre Dame seems pretty accepting of the gay community, despite what you think.

 

http://www.grc.nd.edu/lgbtq-allies/

[greg775]

I've literally already stated repeatedly that most kids don't choose their college over its religious ideology. Moreover, a historical relationship with a religion doesn't mean a school follows the tenants of that religion verbatim, and in their original context.

 

Do you seriously think that every historically catholic or jesuit institution infuses religion into their required coursework and campus life? I can promise you that's not the case.

I'll stop if I'm not explaining myself correctly.

You said: "I've literally already stated repeatedly that most kids don't choose their college over its religious ideology."

I say: "Most kids don't take a stand and protest a speaker. Upon looking into why they don't like the speaker, part of the reasoning is stuff the people who run their university believe as well."

My bad if I think something is out of whack in the reasoning.

 

I would like to stress if I am going against the Catholic rulebook by approving of any lifestyle between consenting adults then too bad for me. I approve of all people and all people's sexuality and beliefs. I welcome all. Nobody can stop me from that, not the Catholic rulebook.

[greg775]

I cannot even begin to unpack all of the ignorance in this statement. There is so much wrong here, coming from a guy who a few posts ago professed "I support everybody".

 

Unbelievable.

I'm putting out what the official Catholic statement is on the matter, not mine.

[greg775]

Notre Dame seems pretty accepting of the gay community, despite what you think.

 

http://www.grc.nd.edu/lgbtq-allies/

Cool. I love their policy. I just read it. Very beautiful policy. I think it's a wonderful policy and statement I just read.

 

There's nothing in there about the Catholic stance on homosexuality. Had they gone there it would not be a pleasant discussion cause the Catholic rulebook on the matter is pretty stringent.

[Reddy]

Cool. I love their policy. I just read it. Very beautiful policy. I think it's a wonderful policy and statement I just read.

 

There's nothing in there about the Catholic stance on homosexuality. Had they gone there it would not be a pleasant discussion cause the Catholic rulebook on the matter is pretty stringent.

so let me recap:

 

ND is incredibly accepting, welcoming and tolerant of gays

Students who are also accepting, welcoming and tolerant of gays protest a speech by Mike Pence, who hates gays.

 

Remind me why you're confused, greg?

[SouthSide2004]

I'll stop if I'm not explaining myself correctly.

You said: "I've literally already stated repeatedly that most kids don't choose their college over its religious ideology."

I say: "Most kids don't take a stand and protest a speaker. Upon looking into why they don't like the speaker, part of the reasoning is stuff the people who run their university believe as well."

My bad if I think something is out of whack in the reasoning.

 

I would like to stress if I am going against the Catholic rulebook by approving of any lifestyle between consenting adults then too bad for me. I approve of all people and all people's sexuality and beliefs. I welcome all. Nobody can stop me from that, not the Catholic rulebook.

So you approve of the "homosexual lifestyle" despite you acknowledging it's a sin in your religion? Aren't you worried that you might end up in hell for supporting such a sin?!?

[Reddy]

The fact that he calls it a lifestyle is still insulting and some pretty s***ty "support"

[RockRaines]

The kids walking out in protest should show you how much they think of the bulls*** "rules" derived from that novel. These are intellectually elite college graduates. Good for them.

[LittleHurt05]

The kids walking out in protest should show you how much they think of the bulls*** "rules" derived from that novel. These are intellectually elite college graduates. Good for them.

 

And they did it in the most civil way possible. They didn't make a scene, they didn't interrupt, they turned their backs and walked out to make their point, yet let him make his speech. Good for them.

 

But greg thinks these kids are stupid for attending a top 20 university because his religion hates gay people

[Quin]

Greg, my dude.

 

Look up Rodrigo Borgia.

[CrimsonWeltall]

So it is official policy to want to help "deliver people" from the lifestyle. You might not want to call it conversion therapy but it's something in terms of trying to get you to quit the lifestyle.

 

Being gay is a sexual orientation, not a lifestyle.

 

Expecting a gay person to never engage in same-sex dating, relationships, or sex is unreasonable.

 

Expecting a gay person to magically become straight by drilling it into them that they are evil is much worse.

[Kyyle23]

Let's not forget about some of the other horrific things that pence has done, like having a hand in the single largest HIV outbreak since the 1980s

[caulfield12]

It's not the 1950's or 1960's...or the movie RUDY, for that matter.

 

Very few choose a school like Notre Dame for religious/moral/ethical reasons...maybe 5-10%?

 

And if you look at everything the new Pope's been saying, I think he is more of a moral authority here than either Pence or even a platform of conduct/beliefs from a university.

 

And it's not like the Berkeley demonstrations...nobody was hurt, or arrested. Will it be remembered for a long time? Was it effective? Who knows? But I still remember the cast of Hamilton "confronting" Pence when he attended the Broadway show, you have to give people credit for at least trying and following their morals or values, as long as it doesn't "harm" other people.

 

I suppose Greg would argue those parents/students who were Republican/not interested in protesting were somehow harmed, but it would be difficult to prove in a court of law.

[Reddy]

I suppose Greg would argue those parents/students who were Republican/not interested in protesting were somehow harmed, but it would be difficult to prove in a court of law.

 

Why on earth would you give greg MORE arguments to make?

[greg775]

so let me recap:

 

ND is incredibly accepting, welcoming and tolerant of gays

Students who are also accepting, welcoming and tolerant of gays protest a speech by Mike Pence, who hates gays.

 

Remind me why you're confused, greg?

Because 85 percent of the students there are Catholic and I showed you the Catholic position on being gay, the official position. It flat out says this type of sex is wrong. So .... why in the hell are they attending ND to begin with when the Catholic religion is like this?? Just like Pence. Now Reddy educated me on that terrific statement by ND on gays. I LOVE their stance. However if you read what Reddy provided me, there's nothing in that document on the church's position on same sex sexual activity. I'm confused because if they are that worked up to walk out on Pence, they sure as hell should not be attending ND out of protest.

 

So you approve of the "homosexual lifestyle" despite you acknowledging it's a sin in your religion? Aren't you worried that you might end up in hell for supporting such a sin?!?

No. I do what I feel is right. I feel like all organized religions probably have something I disagree with. I'm not perfect. I like my religion for various reasons. I like community worship. I feel good in a church (yes it's selfish of me I guess). I feel good among fellow worshipers. I like to observe people and I enjoy seeing happy people for an hour every Sunday. Sure I approve of the homosexual orientation. I'll try to get it right and use the right word, not lifestyle. Sorry if I offended.

 

The fact that he calls it a lifestyle is still insulting and some pretty s***ty "support"

Sorry about that. I definitely approve of all sexual orientations.

 

And they did it in the most civil way possible. They didn't make a scene, they didn't interrupt, they turned their backs and walked out to make their point, yet let him make his speech. Good for them.

 

But greg thinks these kids are stupid for attending a top 20 university because his religion hates gay people

I feel like if they are going to protest Pence, they should show some guts and protest everything about ND because the church it is founded on is 100 percent in agreement with Pence on social issues.

 

Being gay is a sexual orientation, not a lifestyle.

 

Expecting a gay person to never engage in same-sex dating, relationships, or sex is unreasonable.

 

Expecting a gay person to magically become straight by drilling it into them that they are evil is much worse.

Yeah I agree with your third sentence for sure. Obviously they are not evil.

 

Very few choose a school like Notre Dame for religious/moral/ethical reasons...maybe 5-10%?

Then why is it 85 percent Catholic? Well a big reason is the Catholic high schools of which I went to in Chicago feed kids to ND as well as the Benedictine schools. 85 percent are Catholic students! That's 15 percent non Catholic. And they are mad at Pence but not their leaders at ND???

Edited May 22, 2017 by greg775

[Middle Buffalo]

I'd bet a good percentage of the straight Catholics who attend ND participate in sex outside of wedlock & for reasons other than for procreation. Care to enlighten the board on Catholicism's stance of extramarital sex, Greg? Why would these good Catholics go to ND if they engage in this perverse behavior?