chitownsportsfan Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Sox-35th @ May 31, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) Where's their trophy? It's inevitable, I suppose, that the old-school White Sox nonsense sneaks back in because this team isn't terrible enough. We know the lightning in a bottle method fails for more often then the rebuild through the farm method. You want a championship window, you don't want a "well, we can go for it this year, but that's all" The Sox have made the playoffs 4 times in my lifetime. One of those times, they won it all. I will take those odds. Edited May 31, 2017 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ May 31, 2017 -> 11:13 AM) But it doesn't set you up for years and years of success. That's the best way to maximize your odds of winning the series. I don't care about beating a weak division. I want to be good for years and years to come. The best way to get odds of winning the world series is getting into the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) The best way to get odds of winning the world series is getting into the playoffs. The best odds of winning the world series is making the playoffs EVERY YEAR, not winning one bad division one year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) The best odds of winning the world series is making the playoffs EVERY YEAR, not winning one bad division one year. Which is a standard that literally no one except the highest revenue teams can be held to. We will never have the revenue to retain and sign top talent like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:24 PM) Which is a standard that literally no one except the highest revenue teams can be held to. We will never have the revenue to retain and sign top talent like that. Except the St. Louis Cardinals, Houston Astros. Two analogous teams to what the White Sox are doing. We get it, you're shortsighted and you want us to get that 5th playoff appearance in my lifetime. Get me a perennial contender. Edited May 31, 2017 by Sox-35th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:38 PM) Except the St. Louis Cardinals, Houston Astros. Two analogous teams to what the White Sox are doing. We get it, you're shortsighted and you want us to get that 5th playoff appearance in my lifetime. Get me a perennial contender. Wait, what? Neither of the teams you named made the playoffs last year. The Astros made it in 2015. Before that the last time was 2005. The Cards at least had a recent streak of 5 seasons in the playoffs, though 1 WS win to show for it. But then again the Cardinals have a fan base that allows them to spend when needed. You are talking about a franchise that hasn't been under 35k per night for over 20 years now. The White Sox have been above that mark once ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 If the Sox accomplish what they're trying to do, they can get a nice cluster of years similar to what the Phillies or Rangers did. Or even the Tigers. You can never assume holding the trophy at the end of a season, but they can make the playoffs 2020-2024, if the rebuild goes as planned and they have enough health year to year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:47 PM) If the Sox accomplish what they're trying to do, they can get a nice cluster of years similar to what the Phillies or Rangers did. Or even the Tigers. You can never assume holding the trophy at the end of a season, but they can make the playoffs 2020-2024, if the rebuild goes as planned and they have enough health year to year. 5 straight years in the playoffs? I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:48 PM) 5 straight years in the playoffs? I mean... And just for reference's sake that has happened 8 times in the entire history of baseball. 3 of them are the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:45 PM) Wait, what? Neither of the teams you named made the playoffs last year. The Astros made it in 2015. Before that the last time was 2005. The Cards at least had a recent streak of 5 seasons in the playoffs, though 1 WS win to show for it. But then again the Cardinals have a fan base that allows them to spend when needed. You are talking about a franchise that hasn't been under 35k per night for over 20 years now. The White Sox have been above that mark once ever. Yet the Cardinals and White Sox had similar operating income in 2014. I mention the Astros because they have the talent to be in it every year. I mention the Cardinals because they're in the race every year. Every time they let a guy go, they replace him with another guy you have never heard of who produces for them. That's what we need. And don't give me that "the White Sox don't pay their players" nonsense. If we were good, we would draw a lot more than we do now and we would have the income to keep whoever we need and move whoever we don't feel is the right value. And here's what you don't seem to understand. Your way ends up with a 10 year span with one year in the playoffs and about 3 of real contention. You're talking like this team is actually any good. it's not. For how good our division record is, our out of division record is trash. Playoffs or not, we're not even close to the post season most years and our attendance reflects it. Edited May 31, 2017 by Sox-35th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:48 PM) 5 straight years in the playoffs? I mean... Yes, that's what they are trying to accomplish. Chances are they'll have a season in there where too much goes wrong and they don't make the postseason, but yes this is about sustained success and relevance most years. Not a magical season where they luck into a dominant bullpen and a weak division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:52 PM) Yes, that's what they are trying to accomplish. Chances are they'll have a season in there where too much goes wrong and they don't make the postseason, but yes this is about sustained success and relevance most years. Not a magical season where they luck into a dominant bullpen and a weak division. Bingo, we're talking top three division finishes every year with multiple playoff appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:52 PM) Yet the Cardinals and White Sox had similar operating income in 2014. I mention the Astros because they have the talent to be in it every year. I mention the Cardinals because they're in the race every year. Every time they let a guy go, they replace him with another guy you have never heard of who produces for them. That's what we need. And don't give me that "the White Sox don't pay their players" nonsense. If we were good, we would draw a lot more than we do now and we would have the income to keep whoever we need and move whoever we don't feel is the right value. People have gone off of the deep end with their expectations if they are expecting the Sox to be an annual playoff team because of this rebuild. There is zero comparison between the Cards and Sox. The Cards have a loyal and large fan base, and they are also near the top of baseball in terms of revenue. As of 2016 the difference was $50 million. They have four contracts on their team currently which are bigger than any contract the White Sox have handed out in their team history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) People have gone off of the deep end with their expectations if they are expecting the Sox to be an annual playoff team because of this rebuild. There is zero comparison between the Cards and Sox. The Cards have a loyal and large fan base, and they are also near the top of baseball in terms of revenue. As of 2016 the difference was $50 million. They have four contracts on their team currently which are bigger than any contract the White Sox have handed out in their team history. What's your expectation? You're all set to turn this cruise ship around and buy buy buy, apparently. There is a clear philosophy change in this organization. Time to get on board. Also, as far as the high contracts go, the White Sox would be more willing to pay them if A) They had any assets worth paying that amount of money B) They hadn't already paid a more than fair price for Q, the only play on the team worth that kind of money C) Weren't trying to rebuild the organization from the ground up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 It is amazing that the Sox are even afloat in the standings given that they do not have an ace starter or maybe even a #2 level starter considering where Q would be rated now. The Sox could easily be 10 or more games under water with a rotation consisting of an underwhelming/disappointing Q plus 3,4,5 starters and call-ups pitching every day. No stopper, no Ace, and even Q sucks. At this rate, the bullpen guys that have been carrying the load, will get burned out. That is part of what happened last year. I don't see the Sox trading any starting pitchers including Q the way this is going. I have no confidence that we will see Rodon at 100% this year and I just don't know whether or not Carson Fulmer will be a successful starter at the major league level. To be optimistic about the starting rotation, perhaps Shields will be back soon and Rodon will heal from whatever ails him. Then perhaps they can bring up Reynaldo Lopez as a 5th or 6th starter. Add to that a fast turn around in the trajectory that Q has been on recently. A lot to ask for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 There is zero comparison between the Cards and Sox. The Cards have a loyal and large fan base I root for the Cardinals....when they play the Cubz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Just sayin... 7-15 outside the division. 12-17 on the road. 15 of the next 19 games are on the road. Probably will be good and buried by the break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Exceptions the Sox can look to as examplars: Indians in the 1990's, and now again Braves from 1990 until about five years ago Oakland A's Twins from 2002-2010 (6/9 seasons in the playoffs) Royals 2013-15 TB Rays under Maddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 1, 2017 -> 01:23 PM) Just sayin... 7-15 outside the division. 12-17 on the road. 15 of the next 19 games are on the road. Probably will be good and buried by the break. Good time for an off day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 1, 2017 -> 01:23 PM) Just sayin... 7-15 outside the division. 12-17 on the road. 15 of the next 19 games are on the road. Probably will be good and buried by the break. The against RHP vs LHP split is also very drastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Some things i find interesting as of today in the division. Indians 28-24 - RDif +21 - Pythag 28-23 - BaseRuns - 33-21 Twins 26-23 - RDif -23 - Pythag 22-27 - BaseRuns - 24-25 Tigers 25-28 - RDif -21 - Pythag 24-29 - BaseRuns - 23-30 White Sox 24-28 - RDif +19 - Pythag 28-24 - BaseRuns - 26-26 Royals 22-30 - RDif -53 - Pythag 20-32 - BaseRuns - 21-31 we should have the second best record by pythag and baseruns in the division, hopefully we continue to lose and sell off quickly, need to get back in the running for a top 3 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 1, 2017 -> 01:23 PM) Just sayin... 7-15 outside the division. 12-17 on the road. 15 of the next 19 games are on the road. Probably will be good and buried by the break. And 8-18 against teams with winning records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I maintain that there is no reason for us to root for losses, the losses will come. If anything, this season just proves how much easier it is to over achieve when you have a good bullpen. Let's make sure we have some good power arms for the pen when we get good as a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 2, 2017 -> 09:15 AM) I maintain that there is no reason for us to root for losses, the losses will come. If anything, this season just proves how much easier it is to over achieve when you have a good bullpen. Let's make sure we have some good power arms for the pen when we get good as a team. It is now June. Realistically there will start to be some trades happening in the next few weeks or so, and then the pace will quicken. As that starts to happen, I think you will start to see the first of the next wave start to arrive on the southside, and the losses will start to come a little more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 2, 2017 -> 10:03 AM) It is now June. Realistically there will start to be some trades happening in the next few weeks or so, and then the pace will quicken. As that starts to happen, I think you will start to see the first of the next wave start to arrive on the southside, and the losses will start to come a little more often. After the draft, hopefully there will be some activity on our rental starters (Gonzalez, Holland) and maybe some of the relievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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