Renteria is a horrible in-game manager

[Kyyle23]

maybe the guy is just trying to see what his players can and cannot do while he is in a year where they are clearly not expected to compete. Which is pretty much exactly the same situation he was in while manager of the Cubs.

 

This is a mulligan year, finding out if Adam Engel can lay down a squeeze or sac bunt seems like something a manager should know.

[Doc Edwards Shot]

That may be true but what is he teaching? I saw a video where he had the whole team practicing bunting during the Red Sox series. His love of bunting is scary.

 

No objection here. More times than I can count have I wanted to jump out of my skin with anger when the Sox failed in sacrifice bunt attempts and then lost games because of it.

 

I want us to be a team that executes the fundamentals. Bunting is something of a lost art that wins games when it's done correctly.

[Dick Allen]

maybe the guy is just trying to see what his players can and cannot do while he is in a year where they are clearly not expected to compete. Which is pretty much exactly the same situation he was in while manager of the Cubs.

 

This is a mulligan year, finding out if Adam Engel can lay down a squeeze or sac bunt seems like something a manager should know.

Bunting obviously is going by the boards. The specific problem I had with Engel bunting, other than bunting, was having him bunt with 2 strikes even after seeing he wasn't close to getting one down the first 2 attempts. If it didn't hit you another attempt wasn't going to work unless you were very lucky, I just wonder what he was looking at.

 

Like I posted a week or so ago, it all may be moot. The goal is to not have 4 or 5 guys in the line up whose biggest weapon in these situations is a bunt. In a few years, maybe they get there.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Jose Abreu]

maybe the guy is just trying to see what his players can and cannot do while he is in a year where they are clearly not expected to compete. Which is pretty much exactly the same situation he was in while manager of the Cubs.

 

This is a mulligan year, finding out if Adam Engel can lay down a squeeze or sac bunt seems like something a manager should know.

But it's not just the AAA guys that are bunting, it's our middle of the order guys too.

[southsider2k5]

I agree with the earlier point...the guy has to pitch once in awhile, right?

 

And who else? I mean typically that is something you can use you top set up guys to do. You don't have Nate Jones. You don't have Zach Putnam. You don't have Jake Petricka. Going down the line, you can see who they used already in this game, who else had logged extensive innings in recent games. I am not seeing who else you use in that game, in that situation besides Robertson.

[bmags]

maybe the guy is just trying to see what his players can and cannot do while he is in a year where they are clearly not expected to compete. Which is pretty much exactly the same situation he was in while manager of the Cubs.

 

This is a mulligan year, finding out if Adam Engel can lay down a squeeze or sac bunt seems like something a manager should know.

 

This is exactly how I feel. Let's be aggressive in stolen bases this year (IMO), and sure, try a bunt. Let us figure out who can do it and who can't before it matters.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Bunting obviously is going by the boards. The specific problem I had with Engel bunting, other than bunting, was having him bunt with 2 strikes even after seeing he wasn't close to getting one down the first 2 attempts. If it didn't hit you another attempt wasn't going to work unless you were very lucky, I just wonder what he was looking at.

 

Like I posted a week or so ago, it all may be moot. The goal is to not have 4 or 5 guys in the line up whose biggest weapon in these situations is a bunt. In a few years, maybe they get there.

 

I'm not gonna say that situation was the right call, I didn't like it when it happened and don't like it now. I just don't see a reason for a thread like this, three months into his first season as manager, nor do I see a reason for "this is why the Cubs got rid of him" in game threads everytime he does something you don't like. It's ridiculous. He would most likely still be managing the Cubs if Maddon didn't become available.

[Jose Abreu]

And who else? I mean typically that is something you can use you top set up guys to do. You don't have Nate Jones. You don't have Zach Putnam. You don't have Jake Petricka. Going down the line, you can see who they used already in this game, who else had logged extensive innings in recent games. I am not seeing who else you use in that game, in that situation besides Robertson.

So that may justify yesterday, but what about when the same thing happened on 4/11 and 5/16?

[Jose Abreu]

This is exactly how I feel. Let's be aggressive in stolen bases this year (IMO), and sure, try a bunt. Let us figure out who can do it and who can't before it matters.

You have a lot more faith than I do that he's gonna somehow suddenly change his ways when we try to contend, or that Jerry will become unloyal by that time and fire him.

[southsider2k5]

So that may justify yesterday, but what about when the same thing happened on 4/11 and 5/16?

 

Same questions apply. Who is available?

[bmags]

You have a lot more faith than I do that he's gonna somehow suddenly change his ways when we try to contend, or that Jerry will become unloyal by that time and fire him.

 

I don't think he's ever going to stop bunting, but I do think the middle inning bunting will end. I think late inning is going to happen.

[bmags]

Same questions apply. Who is available?

 

I also hate questions like these because we had a run of 20+ games with only 1 day off and I'm assuming Renteria and Coop get days where they know some pitchers need a rest that we aren't privvy to.

 

I'm not saying nobody can criticize the manager, but I really like how Renteria has tried to prevent 3rd time through order for some of our weaker pitchers, but you then get into scenarios where you wear down some guys and pitchers have to pitch out of roles.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I also hate questions like these because we had a run of 20+ games with only 1 day off and I'm assuming Renteria and Coop get days where they know some pitchers need a rest that we aren't privvy to.

 

I'm not saying nobody can criticize the manager, but I really like how Renteria has tried to prevent 3rd time through order for some of our weaker pitchers, but you then get into scenarios where you wear down some guys and pitchers have to pitch out of roles.

 

Not to mention if you only save your closer for save situations, they would pitch something like 45 or 50 times in a season on a team like this.

[Jose Abreu]

Same questions apply. Who is available?

On 4/11, which was the first game after an off-day, we had used Jennings, Putnam, and Jones (for one inning, he was the pitcher right before Robertson in the 9th). I believe that means we had Swarzak, Kahnle, and Ynoa.

 

On 5/16, which was the bottom of the 10th in a tie game, we had used Infante, Beck, Jennings, and Kahnle (for one inning, he pitched right before Robertson). That leaves Swarzak, Ynoa, and Holmberg.

[Kyyle23]

On 4/11, which was the first game after an off-day, we had used Jennings, Putnam, and Jones (for one inning, he was the pitcher right before Robertson in the 9th). I believe that means we had Swarzak, Kahnle, and Ynoa.

 

On 5/16, which was the bottom of the 10th in a tie game, we had used Infante, Beck, Jennings, and Kahnle (for one inning, he pitched right before Robertson). That leaves Swarzak, Ynoa, and Holmberg.

 

What was the unused pitchers workload the entire week before? One day off doesn't mean a guy is good to go, these guys aren't robots

[southsider2k5]

On 4/11, which was the first game after an off-day, we had used Jennings, Putnam, and Jones (for one inning, he was the pitcher right before Robertson in the 9th). I believe that means we had Swarzak, Kahnle, and Ynoa.

 

On 5/16, which was the bottom of the 10th in a tie game, we had used Infante, Beck, Jennings, and Kahnle (for one inning, he pitched right before Robertson). That leaves Swarzak, Ynoa, and Holmberg.

And when was the last time Robertson had thrown in each of those, along with what were the IP loads of the set up guys prior to that?

[LittleHurt05]

On 4/11, which was the first game after an off-day, we had used Jennings, Putnam, and Jones (for one inning, he was the pitcher right before Robertson in the 9th). I believe that means we had Swarzak, Kahnle, and Ynoa.

 

On 5/16, which was the bottom of the 10th in a tie game, we had used Infante, Beck, Jennings, and Kahnle (for one inning, he pitched right before Robertson). That leaves Swarzak, Ynoa, and Holmberg.

 

April 11 was the sixth game of the year. Robertson had pitched once. You don't know when the next save situation will be, the guy has to get some work. It was a tie game in the 9th, that's as high leverage as it gets too.

[southsider2k5]

April 11 was the sixth game of the year. Robertson had pitched once. You don't know when the next save situation will be, the guy has to get some work. It was a tie game in the 9th, that's as high leverage as it gets too.

 

Looking backwards in the May situation, Robertson hadn't pitched since the 13th. The Sox were also without Putnam, Jones, and Petricka by that point. All other relievers except Ynoa had pitched at least twice in the span of the 13th to the 15th.

[Jose Abreu]

What was the unused pitchers workload the entire week before? One day off doesn't mean a guy is good to go, these guys aren't robots

 

 

And when was the last time Robertson had thrown in each of those, along with what were the IP loads of the set up guys prior to that?

 

4/11:

Robertson had pitched an inning two days prior, 4/9.

Swarzak was fresh and unused all season.

Kahnle had pitched an inning on 4/6 and another on 4/7, so he was fresh too.

Ynoa had pitched two innings on 4/6.

 

Yeah, I'm standing by this one, all three of those guys were viable.

 

5/16:

Robertson had pitched an inning on 5/11 and 5/13.

Swarzak pitched 1.2 innings on 5/13 and 1.1 innings on 5/15.

Ynoa had pitched 2 innings on 5/12 and 1 inning on 5/14. Theoretically, he should've been good to go.

Holmberg had pitched 0.2 innings on 5/12 and 1 inning on 5/14. Probably was available as well.

 

For this game, the only viable options were Ynoa and Holmberg, and I think we could've used one of them before going to Robertson.

 

[Dick Allen]

I'm not gonna say that situation was the right call, I didn't like it when it happened and don't like it now. I just don't see a reason for a thread like this, three months into his first season as manager, nor do I see a reason for "this is why the Cubs got rid of him" in game threads everytime he does something you don't like. It's ridiculous. He would most likely still be managing the Cubs if Maddon didn't become available.

Obviously the Cubs didn't get rid of him because he likes to bunt. They even said he was coming back until Maddon became available. But he does run a game against a lot of the new wisdom. I have no problem with him going to Robertson yesterday. In fact he probably should have used him in a non save situation a few games prior as it had been 6 games since he pitched. And with the Cubs, it wasn't bunting that got him criticized, it was the way he ran the bullpen. I do question some of his moves, but Coop does have a big say if not the say in how it goes.

He is in love with the bunt for this particular team. He brought in a pitching machine to practice bunting against some velocity last week. But that's this team. If the line up ever gets stacked, I doubt he bunts as much.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Bob Sacamano]

Obviously the Cubs didn't get rid of him because he likes to bunt. They even said he was coming back until Maddon became available.

 

He is in love with the bunt for this particular team. He brought in a pitching machine to practice bunting against some velocity last week. But that's this team. If the line up ever gets stacked, I doubt he bunts as much.

 

Agreed 100%. This isn't like a 90s/early 2000s team we're talking about.

[southsider2k5]

4/11:

Robertson had pitched an inning two days prior, 4/9.

Swarzak was fresh and unused all season.

Kahnle had pitched an inning on 4/6 and another on 4/7, so he was fresh too.

Ynoa had pitched two innings on 4/6.

 

Yeah, I'm standing by this one, all three of those guys were viable.

 

5/16:

Robertson had pitched an inning on 5/11 and 5/13.

Swarzak pitched 1.2 innings on 5/13 and 1.1 innings on 5/15.

Ynoa had pitched 2 innings on 5/12 and 1 inning on 5/14. Theoretically, he should've been good to go.

Holmberg had pitched 0.2 innings on 5/12 and 1 inning on 5/14. Probably was available as well.

 

For this game, the only viable options were Ynoa and Holmberg, and I think we could've used one of them before going to Robertson.

 

On April 11th all three of Kahnle, Ynoa, and Swarzak still hadn't proven they could be trusted at all and were basically considered garbage pitchers based on their previous seasons.

[Jose Abreu]

On April 11th all three of Kahnle, Ynoa, and Swarzak still hadn't proven they could be trusted at all and were basically considered garbage pitchers based on their previous seasons.

Swarzak hadn't even been given a chance, and everyone knew coming in that he wasn't the same pitcher with his new fastball. As for Ynoa, I disagree, he was pretty good for us last year. Maybe Swarzak's first shot should not have been in such a high-leverage situation, but I don't see why Ynoa couldn't have been tried.

[The Gooch]

Bunting with two out and a man on third has to stop. Like WTF.

[chitownsportsfan]

I'm sick of the bunts. As far as the bullpen usage goes WTF is he supposed to even do when your starters are this bad and/or can't go more than 80 pitches?

 

The injuries to the rotation have finally caught up to the Sox the past two weeks and it's showing in the strain on the pen.

 

I really, really, really want to see Shields, Lopez and Rodon in this rotation by July. Start building some trade value for Shields and start building for the future with Rodon and Lopez.