**ComeyMania! Thread**

[RockRaines]

I don't like Trump but I want him to be able to get to work being President without all this baggage. Some of his ideas are bold and I'd like to see him get his shot. But it's not a good thing for America if the deck is stacked against the President, no matter who it is. Trump's gotta do his part and shut up about it too.

What ideas? Which ones are good for the country? His policies of tax benefits for the ultra rich and continued pillaging of the lower and middle class are bold I guess.

 

And I dont see how anything is stacked against him. He has the house and the senate. He has the ability to rip off executive order after executive order. But instead he's doing next to nothing and having signing ceremonies for memos. He's playing golf, talking about the election and not doing his job. How can anyone get behind that?

[caulfield12]

But but but the Appellate Courts are stacked with Obama appointees out to stop Trump. (Forget that the GOP controls the SCOTUS as well). Redistricting/gerrymandering. 31 governorships. Most state houses/legislatures, etc.

 

Jerry Brown's meeting with Xi Jinping in Beijing and states are beginning to ignore federal directives to promulgate their own "rebellious" set of an environmental policies from states like CA, WA and NY. Sanctuary cities/mayors won't listen to Trump and Feds.

 

There's no border wall.

 

Not realizing that we have air bases and troops in Qatar, well, all he had to do was watch the Transformers movies to figure that one out on his own.

 

The MSM is out to get him!!!

 

Hillary. Benghazi. E-mails. Holder. Loretta Lynch. Lois Lerner. SETH RICH SETH RICH SETH RICH SETH RICH. Berkeley protestors taking away free speech from hate groups.

 

 

And then wishing "bad things" to happen to Iranians when the real sponsors of that terrorism are countries like Saudi Arabia (our new besties!), UAE and Bahrain, well, it's ALL TOO MUCH.

Edited June 9, 2017 by caulfield12

[Jerksticks]

What ideas? Which ones are good for the country? His policies of tax benefits for the ultra rich and continued pillaging of the lower and middle class are bold I guess.

 

And I dont see how anything is stacked against him. He has the house and the senate. He has the ability to rip off executive order after executive order. But instead he's doing next to nothing and having signing ceremonies for memos. He's playing golf, talking about the election and not doing his job. How can anyone get behind that?

Corporate tax rate at 15% and getting rid of the over 50 enployees mandate would boom the economy like I've never seen in my adult life. That over 50 employee mandate is making the poor waaaaaaaay poorer. That kind of s*** bothers me big time. That's probably my biggest gripe with The ACA. Sure they got coverage but now they can't work full time anywhere.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Corporate tax rate at 15% and getting rid of the over 50 enployees mandate would boom the economy like I've never seen in my adult life. That over 50 employee mandate is making the poor waaaaaaaay poorer. That kind of s*** bothers me big time. That's probably my biggest gripe with The ACA. Sure they got coverage but now they can't work full time anywhere.

 

Where has cutting corporate tax rates and individual income tax rates (disproportionately) for the top 20% worked in ANY world economy?

 

It's simply going to lead to even more inequality/wealth gap in society...it's simply going to lead to $25-$30 trillion in debt (which means there will be NO MONEY left over for government after defense spending and entitlements like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and interest payments on that growing debt). There's no economist in the US who believes that we can have consistent 3-4% growth, because we'll eventually have to raise interest rates.

 

Meanwhile, pulling out of TPP, $1.3 billion in lost tourism due to travel bans/threat of bans and laptop/battery rules, pulling out of the Paris Accords...we're LOSING MONEY AS A RESULT OF ALL THESE DECISIONS!!!!

 

Meanwhile, the Chinese are steaming ahead with the AIIB and One Belt/One Road infrastructure project (NEW SILK ROAD) that will tie 60% of the world's population together economically.

 

We have the ridiculously inept Amtrak, while here in China the average long distance train travels 180-200 MPH, new developments are happening in quantum computers every and there are more ENGINEERS here than public school students in the entire United States. China will soon have their first commercial airlines, to go with their developments in robotics, computing and rail travel, not to mention solar/geothermal/wind turbine, etc.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/opinion/...trade.html?_r=0

You are being foolish/naive if you think we're well-positioned to compete globally and that these tax rule changes, exemptions, etc., will boost GDP growth significantly. Companies/CEO's will simply use the extra money to invest in robotics (replacing more workers), buy back shares and finance more mergers and acquisitions, leading to more profits for Wall Street and fewer consumer options for Main Street.

[StrangeSox]

[caulfield12]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/opinion/...ol-right-region

James Comey, and our own tin-pot despot, Donald Trump

 

 

 

Apart from Comey and the Russia investigation, Trump has systematically attacked the institutions of American life that he sees as impediments. He denounced judges and the courts. He has attacked journalists as “the enemy of the people,” and urged that some be jailed for publishing classified information. He has publicly savaged Democrats and Republicans who stand up to him.

 

More broadly, Trump has ignored longstanding democratic norms, such as that a presidential candidate release tax returns and obey certain ethics rules. He flouts conventions against nepotism. And perhaps most fundamentally, he simply lies at every turn: Politicians often spin and exaggerate, they even lie in extremis to escape scandal. But Trump is different. He lies on autopilot, on something as banal as the size of inauguration crowds.

 

Obama was meticulous about ethics rules. He consulted lawyers before accepting the Nobel Peace Prize; aides were forced to give up Twitter accounts when they left office, to ensure they had not benefited improperly by gaining followers.

[Jerksticks]

Where has cutting corporate tax rates and individual income tax rates (disproportionately) for the top 20% worked in ANY world economy?

 

It's simply going to lead to even more inequality/wealth gap in society...it's simply going to lead to $25-$30 trillion in debt (which means there will be NO MONEY left over for government after defense spending and entitlements like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and interest payments on that growing debt). There's no economist in the US who believes that we can have consistent 3-4% growth, because we'll eventually have to raise interest rates.

 

Meanwhile, pulling out of TPP, $1.3 billion in lost tourism due to travel bans/threat of bans and laptop/battery rules, pulling out of the Paris Accords...we're LOSING MONEY AS A RESULT OF ALL THESE DECISIONS!!!!

 

Meanwhile, the Chinese are steaming ahead with the AIIB and One Belt/One Road infrastructure project (NEW SILK ROAD) that will tie 60% of the world's population together economically.

 

We have the ridiculously inept Amtrak, while here in China the average long distance train travels 180-200 MPH, new developments are happening in quantum computers every and there are more ENGINEERS here than public school students in the entire United States. China will soon have their first commercial airlines, to go with their developments in robotics, computing and rail travel, not to mention solar/geothermal/wind turbine, etc.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/opinion/...trade.html?_r=0

You are being foolish/naive if you think we're well-positioned to compete globally and that these tax rule changes, exemptions, etc., will boost GDP growth significantly. Companies/CEO's will simply use the extra money to invest in robotics (replacing more workers), buy back shares and finance more mergers and acquisitions, leading to more profits for Wall Street and fewer consumer options for Main Street.

 

I don't get the purpose of the tangent fest but small busines owners would instantly be able to hire more employees and invest in more equipment. Now I'm highjacking this thread. Not my intention, sorry. Just originally was saying I'd like to see him get his shot. Trump needs to shut up and quit feeding the dogs and the dogs need to shut up as well...for the f***ing good of the country.

[caulfield12]

I don't get the purpose of the tangent fest but small busines owners would instantly be able to hire more employees and invest in more equipment. Now I'm highjacking this thread. Not my intention, sorry. Just originally was saying I'd like to see him get his shot. Trump needs to shut up and quit feeding the dogs and the dogs need to shut up as well...for the f***ing good of the country.

 

 

If you mean, investing in robotics/automation, sure. Buying back stock. Potentially, more going into R&D.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archiv...economy/504845/

Would cutting corporate tax rates really grow the economy?

 

http://www.nber.org/papers/w20753

To Cut or Not to Cut? On the Impact of Corporate Taxes on Employment and Income

 

We find little evidence that corporate tax cuts boost economic activity, unless implemented during recessions when they lead to significant increases in employment and income (and, even then, the benefits are more likely to come from state tax cuts, rather than Federal).

[caulfield12]

What's a nice way of Fox News to put it, to recite quotes from Congres(wo)man and that FBI director? Save me the fratboy way of argumentation with the distracting and likening me to Fox News. I swear the same people who rip on greg for bringing up Hillary and Chelsea all the time can't type a paragraph towards someone they don't agree with without calling them Fox News, Breitbart or the President himself. Keep it together.

 

Show me criminal statue on Trump. It's not there. The Dems and media will keep looking but this will be a year very shortly and with 500 unsourced leaks, a media spectacle and two administrations pursue it but we have nothing.

 

 

 

 

So Obama Admin shouldn't be held to the same standards as Trump because they're no longer in office? I don't get it. Is being held accountable for transgressions of election fraud only applicable to the victors?

 

And again with the Fox News. You make fun of Trump for the fakes news stuff but you have your own replica of what he does. Anytime he disagrees with something he says fake news (he may be right wrong), anytime you disagree with something you say fox news (you may be right or wrong). You both write off the opposing opinion. You're both narrow-minded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where have you been?

 

 

Because Mueller should publish all the findings before he's even had time to have his budget/resources approved?

 

HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY KNOW THEY'VE FOUND NOTHING? Someone is leaking to you from inside Mueller's/Comey's camp?

 

 

As soon as they clear the following individuals from "collusion/treason/collaboration" camp with Russia, then (and only then) you can argue they have nothing. Remember, the MUCH simpler Watergate Investigation lasted two years, and you had fewer actors involved, and not nearly the sophistication in terms of communication techniques/technology at play in the early 1970's.

 

Jeff Sessions

Jared Kushner

Carter Page

Roger Stone

General Flynn

Michael Cohen

Paul Manafort

 

Now if you mean the president has yet to be publicly identified as a target of the investigation (since Comey was fired, since we don't even know that)...you've still got Flynn was major issues (perjury, at the very least), Manafort in danger of indictment, Sessions also has the same perjury charges pending for withholding information (on at least 3 occasions that we KNOW of), and finally Jared Kushner. Page also has his own unique set of problems, even though the administration is trying to downplay his significance to the campaign retroactively.

 

So that's FIVE people...not exactly nothing. Now it's going to be difficult to prove that Trump coordinated this (he can't even understand our strategic/tactical situation in Qatar), but it's not difficult to imagine all of those actors bending the law for different reason/s to bring personal or professional advantage, and/or improve their standing with the incoming administration.

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/06/07...ussia.html?_r=0

What is Clapper's (former Director of National Intelligence under Republicans AND Dems) reason then for calling this current situation "worse than Watergate?"

 

"I think (if) you compare the two that Watergate pales really in my view compared to what we're confronting now," Clapper said. Trump firing FBI Director Jim Comey reflected "complete disregard for the independence and autonomy" of the bureau.

 

"I am very concerned about the assault on our institutions coming from both an external source — read Russia — and an internal source — the president himself," Clapper said.

Edited June 9, 2017 by caulfield12

[RockRaines]

What's a nice way of Fox News to put it, to recite quotes from Congres(wo)man and that FBI director? Save me the fratboy way of argumentation with the distracting and likening me to Fox News. I swear the same people who rip on greg for bringing up Hillary and Chelsea all the time can't type a paragraph towards someone they don't agree with without calling them Fox News, Breitbart or the President himself. Keep it together.

 

Show me criminal statue on Trump. It's not there. The Dems and media will keep looking but this will be a year very shortly and with 500 unsourced leaks, a media spectacle and two administrations pursue it but we have nothing.

 

 

 

 

So Obama Admin shouldn't be held to the same standards as Trump because they're no longer in office? I don't get it. Is being held accountable for transgressions of election fraud only applicable to the victors?

 

And again with the Fox News. You make fun of Trump for the fakes news stuff but you have your own replica of what he does. Anytime he disagrees with something he says fake news (he may be right wrong), anytime you disagree with something you say fox news (you may be right or wrong). You both write off the opposing opinion. You're both narrow-minded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where have you been?

I've said Fox News twice, and disagreed with hundreds of items in this thread. I did appreciate the "fratboy" insult though, very creative. The sitting president committed a felony and we are still being told but what about Obama. The sitting. Presidents team had numerous and at times unreported contact with Russians who were actively (according to Comey) interfering in our election. Excuse me if that seems different than anything Bill clinton did on a tarmac.

[RockRaines]

Corporate tax rate at 15% and getting rid of the over 50 enployees mandate would boom the economy like I've never seen in my adult life. That over 50 employee mandate is making the poor waaaaaaaay poorer. That kind of s*** bothers me big time. That's probably my biggest gripe with The ACA. Sure they got coverage but now they can't work full time anywhere.

Some of that is fair, at least in theory. Unemployment just doesn't seem like the major issue impacting our economy yet he ACA's biggest weakness is lack of jobs?

 

If unemployment is truly our biggest problem, my problem with Trump is their insistence on focusing on industries that show very little if any growth because of loyalty to certain businesses. Their obsession with coal shows a lack of actual desire to grow the job market. The us has become a technological leader and that is the source of great growth IMO. Yet we are ignoring it to try and spin up 1950 again.

Edited June 9, 2017 by RockRaines

[caulfield12]

"Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!" Trump tweeted.

 

Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 9, 2017

 

Trump doesn't have a clue how weakened his administration was by yesterday's testimony. And how can you leak your own memo if it's not classified? How is that any different from Trump's side of the story being tweeted out, such as the "nut job" comment to the Russians?

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/upshot/w...employment.html

We're getting awfully close to "full employment"

Edited June 9, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Donald Trump said he once punched a elementary teacher in the face (and was almost expelled). Did he?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-...m=.cda2e1326e2f

 

 

"By his own account, Trump’s primary focus in elementary school was “creating mischief because, for some reason, I liked to stir things up and I liked to test people. … It wasn’t malicious so much as it was aggressive.” As a second grader, as Trump has described it, he punched his music teacher, giving him a “black eye” because “I didn’t think he knew anything about music, and I almost got expelled. I’m not proud of that, but it’s clear evidence that even early on I had a tendency to stand up and make my opinions known in a very forceful way.” Peter Brant, his best friend at Kew-Forest, is among several of Donald’s pals who recall neither the incident nor Trump’s ever mentioning it. When Trump was asked again about the incident decades later, he said, “When I say ‘punch’ when you’re that age, nobody punches very hard. But I was very rambunctious in school.”

 

The teacher, Charles Walker, who died in 2015, never told anyone in his family about a student’s striking him. Yet Walker’s contempt for Donald was clear. “He was a pain,” Walker once said. “There are certain kids that need attention all the time. He was one of those.”

 

 

[caulfield12]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/09/opinion/...col-left-region

Wrecking the Ship of State

 

 

So what was Trump doing? There’s no hint of a strategic vision; some sources suggest that he may not even have known about the large U.S. base in Qatar and its crucial role.

 

The most likely explanation of his actions, which have provoked a crisis in the region (and pushed Qatar into the arms of Iran) is that the Saudis flattered him — the Ritz-Carlton projected a five-story image of his face on the side of its Riyadh property — and their lobbyists spent large sums at the Trump Washington hotel.

 

Normally, we would consider it ridiculous to suggest that an American president could be so ignorant of crucial issues, and be led to take dangerous foreign policy moves with such crude inducements. But can we believe this about a man who can’t accept the truth about the size of his inauguration crowds, who boasts about his election victory in the most inappropriate circumstances? Yes.

 

And consider his refusal to endorse the central principle of NATO, the obligation to come to our allies’ defense — a refusal that came as a shock and surprise to his own foreign policy team. What was that about? Nobody knows, but it’s worth considering that Trump apparently ranted to European Union leaders about the difficulty of setting up golf courses in their nations. So maybe it was sheer petulance.

Edited June 9, 2017 by caulfield12

[RockRaines]

Just can this asshole stay off twitter. Be a president, do you job. Stop embarrassing us

[Kyyle23]

Caulfield, Comey thread and trump thread. Try and keep the matching tangents in the correct threads

[Dick Allen]

I wonder how many people charged with crimes ever go back and use the "they said I wasn't a suspect" before they arrested me defense.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Caulfield, Comey thread and trump thread. Try and keep the matching tangents in the correct threads

 

I don't recall Comey testifying about the economy...but apparently Comey is single-handedly keeping it from firing on all cylinders (in the minds of Republicans).

Edited June 9, 2017 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

I don't recall Comey testifying about the economy...but apparently Comey is single-handedly keeping it from firing on all cylinders (in the minds of Republicans).

 

I do recall seeing how the economy evolved from the comey discussion

 

I don't recall a story about Trump punching an elementary school teacher being relevant to anything

[caulfield12]

I do recall seeing how the economy evolved from the comey discussion

 

I don't recall a story about Trump punching an elementary school teacher being relevant to anything

 

C-Span brought it up today to discuss or characterize Trump's mentality.

 

They had the ghost writer of The Art of the Deal on to discuss his impressions from interacting with Trump while putting the book together nearly thirty years ago. He specifically referred to that story in his segment, and his concerns about the psychological well-being of the President.

Edited June 9, 2017 by caulfield12

[The Beast]

What?

[StrangeSox]

Trump’s Meddlesome Priest

 

By now many people will have googled the words “meddlesome priest.” The phrase was uttered by James Comey, the former F.B.I. director, during his testimony on Thursday before the Senate Judiciary Committee. When he was asked if he took President Trump’s “hope” that he would drop the Flynn-Russia investigation “as a directive,” Mr. Comey responded, “Yes, yes. It rings in my ears as kind of ‘Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?’ ”

 

These are the words that King Henry II of England allegedly cried out in 1170, frustrated by the political opposition of Thomas Becket, archbishop of Canterbury. Four royal knights immediately rushed off to Canterbury and murdered the meddlesome priest.

 

Unlike many contemporary references to medieval history, this one is apt. Mr. Comey’s point was that a desire expressed by a powerful leader is tantamount to an order. When Senator James E. Risch, a Republican, noted that the president had merely “hoped for an outcome,” Mr. Comey replied, “I mean, this is the president of the United States, with me alone, saying ‘I hope this.’ I took it as, this is what he wants me to do.”

 

King Henry’s contemporaries likewise assumed that a ruler’s wish constituted a command: Although he denied any intention of inciting murder, Henry was widely held responsible for Becket’s death. The pope issued an order prohibiting Henry from attending church services or participating in the sacraments, and the king was eventually forced to do penance for the violence perpetrated in his name.

 

There are even more instructive parallels. Although the administration offered various reasons for the firing of Mr. Comey, it is clear that Mr. Trump considered his allegiance to F.B.I. protocol over presidential preference to be a form of disloyalty. Likewise, the main issues at stake in 1170 were divided loyalty and institutional independence.

 

Before Becket had been elected archbishop, he had been a close friend and faithful servant to the king. Henry had engineered Becket’s election in the expectation that, as archbishop, Becket would continue to serve royal interests. This was not an unreasonable assumption; for centuries bishops had performed dual roles, acting as temporal as well as spiritual lords. They commanded armies, enforced royal decrees, and took it for granted that the rulers who appointed them could claim their loyalty.

 

It was not until the 1070s that secular control over bishops began to be challenged by a series of reformist popes who sought to free clerics from secular influence and insisted that bishops’ first allegiance was to the church. This goal was rarely fully realized — kings were generally closer than the pope and more able to dispense both patronage and punishment. But to Henry’s fury, Becket unexpectedly embraced reform, becoming a vigorous defender of church privileges and critic of royal interference. Henry felt intensely betrayed. Becket died not because he was “meddlesome,” but because, in the king’s view, he was disloyal.

 

The Becket episode may likewise help explain why Mr. Trump’s advisers did not prevent him from firing Mr. Comey. King Henry expected all his officials to share his fury at Becket and saw any failure to do so as a betrayal as well. The phrase “meddlesome priest” was a later invention, made famous by Hollywood in the 1964 film “Becket.” Henry’s actual exclamation — or at least the cry attributed to him in the medieval sources — was “What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household, who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a lowborn clerk!’”

 

No wonder the four knights were so eager to take the hint. Henry’s courtiers may well have feared that if they didn’t make a conspicuous display of loyalty, the king might turn on them next. Treachery was a capital offense.

 

The aftermath of the Becket episode may, moreover, resonate in one final way. Although Henry had longed to get rid of Becket for years, he presumably came to rue the day his words of rage were heeded. In addition to performing humiliating penance, he had to swear obedience to the pope, make a series of concessions to the church and eventually face rebellion. One suspects that Mr. Trump, too, might come to feel the wisdom of the words “be careful what you wish for.”

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Bradd Jaffy @BraddJaffy

Trump's lawyer to file complaint w/DOJ IG & Sen Judiciary re Comey's testimony about leaking info from Trump convo memo, per @PeterAlexander

 

I haven't really seen anyone make a solid argument or any argument at all that Comey's personal memos would be classified or privileged communication beyond the surface level conflation of "leaks!" It'll be interesting to see how this and the broader defense of "Comey is a lying liar who lies except about the parts that were not-bad for me, those are all 100% true" defense they're running with.

[Dick Allen]

I haven't really seen anyone make a solid argument or any argument at all that Comey's personal memos would be classified or privileged communication beyond the surface level conflation of "leaks!" It'll be interesting to see how this and the broader defense of "Comey is a lying liar who lies except about the parts that were not-bad for me, those are all 100% true" defense they're running with.

Yes, it's hysterical. The former director, UNDER OATH, called the POTUS a liar 5 times. Ignored. Hillary, emails, Lynch...WOW BOMBSHELL, credible source. Said Trump wasn't being investigated, PROOF, this is OVA, end this now. Everything else, nothing but lies and incompetence. Comey admitted he was a bit of a coward and didn't press Trump. Hopefully the rest of the GOP doesn't do the same thing, but it certainly appears that's what they want to do.

[RockRaines]

I haven't really seen anyone make a solid argument or any argument at all that Comey's personal memos would be classified or privileged communication beyond the surface level conflation of "leaks!" It'll be interesting to see how this and the broader defense of "Comey is a lying liar who lies except about the parts that were not-bad for me, those are all 100% true" defense they're running with.

They arent.

 

Also this shouldnt be handled by Trumps personal lawyer, its a joke.