The Critic Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Well are we agreed that we most likely arent going anywhere next year? I don't feel that way at all. The Central division is not that strong at all, and if/when the Twins lose a few guys because of money issues, they will come back a little bit. The Royals have to prove that they weren't a fluke, and their pitchers aren't scary at all. The Indians have a ways to go yet, they're going to be good, just maybe not next year. The Tigers are the Tigers. If the Sox can ( pardon the expression ) TINKER with the roster to add some On-Base kind of guys while keeping enough bang in the order, they can certainly stay competitive. There's no reason to think otherwise, given the guys who are likely to return. The Sox are not as good as we thought in August and they're not as bad as we think now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Well are we agreed that we most likely arent going anywhere next year? I don't feel that way at all. The Central division is not that strong at all, and if/when the Twins lose a few guys because of money issues, they will come back a little bit. The Royals have to prove that they weren't a fluke, and their pitchers aren't scary at all. The Indians have a ways to go yet, they're going to be good, just maybe not next year. The Tigers are the Tigers. If the Sox can ( pardon the expression ) TINKER with the roster to add some On-Base kind of guys while keeping enough bang in the order, they can certainly stay competitive. There's no reason to think otherwise, given the guys who are likely to return. The Sox are not as good as we thought in August and they're not as bad as we think now. I agree. Sox are gonna be contenders next year and I pretty much guarantee that. With the Cubs making the playoffs the Sox can't bow down. They will have to step it up and show they want to win. I think they did that this season and will have to show the city, their fans and the media that they are serious again this year. That would start by hiring a damn good manager. The next case would be bringing back Colon and a lot of the team. Personally I don't think Alomar is the best way to spend the money. Unless they are also willing to bring in a good shortstop to go with him. I think the biggest thing the Sox should do is add a hell of a lot of speed at the top of the order, move Frank to the cleanup slot or 5 hole and deal Konerko. Also add Hawkins or another reliever into the pen and keep either Sully or Gordon. Do that and I think the Sox will be in contention in the central (Twins have proven time and time again they are the team to beat and will be until someone dethrones them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I've always wanted to have Castillo but with a replenished Marlins team, I dont think hes going anywhere. I do like the possibility of Guzman though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I've always wanted to have Castillo but with a replenished Marlins team, I dont think hes going anywhere. I do like the possibility of Guzman though. Alomar/Guzman wouldn't be bad either. I'd suggest Vidro but I don't see a shot in a hell that we'd get him. I pretty much have him ticketed for LA. But I do think the Sox should invest money in the top of the order cause that is what sets it for your offense. Have guys on base and you can sign a bunch of power hitting .260 hitters for rather cheap and you'd score a ton of runs. Then keep this pitching staff in tact and your set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Oh, and we need Frank's bat in in that lineup. Anyone who thinks differently is a fool. Color me a fool then. DoubleM, how can you say that Aaron Miles couldn't be a starter if you have barely seen him play? How many actual at bats have you seen of Aaron's? How many innings defensively? I am not stating the case that he can and will be a starter, just that you profess to know everything without any firsthand knowledge. I'll take the label of fool, if it comes from someone that acts as if they know everything, when indeed it is quite the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 You need to have your 40+homer bats (Frank) and you're stolen base threats. Funny, the Yankees have done quite well without a 40+ HR guy. I do believe they even won a couple of WS without anyone that hit even 30. Keep spoutin' BS, doubleM, do what you are good at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I got a feeling both will be back. I think the Sox may tender Everett and he'll be back for another year. Dont' know where they'd play him. I'd say DH or Centerfield. Jason, you think the Sox will pay $7.3 mil or more??? Can't see it happening here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I agree with you Rex Everett is a goner. too pricey only reason sox got him this year is because Texas paid the tab. If we are going to open the pocketbook, open it for a starting pitcher. Maybe Colon. Maybe somebody else. Too bad we didn't see enough of Miles to be certain what he can do. But I believe he needs to be on the club next year at least as a utility infielder and pinch hitter. I like what I saw. Scrappy. Hustler. Good stick. Just didn't see enough of him in the field. I will say this: Sox would be making a big mistake OVERPAYING for Robbie. His offensive numbers have declined for two straight years. He's lost a step in the field. His All-Star days are behind him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 This will probably be considered an anti-Miles post, but it is not. It is intended to make Sox fans think a bit differently.... Imagine the Sox winning the World Series, beating the Atlanta Braves (for example. Do you realistically see Aaron Miles as the starting 2Bman? The reason KW went out and got Everett and Alomar is because he felt those guys could help you win the World Series. Unfortunately, the Twins had something to say about that. My point is think bigger than making the playoffs. What kind of team will it take to win the World Series. Generally WS winners are strong up the middle and that is the Sox biggest question mark. The Sox are committed to Olivo for the future and he is good enough defensively. Rowand plays his ass off and could be a spark plug for a winning club. Valentin? Miles? Harris? The bottom line is one, perhaps two of these guys could fit into a WS team with the right players around them. But if you can realistically envision Miguel Olivo, Aaron Miles/Willie Harris, Jose Valentin and Aaron Rowand manning the middle of the diamond on a World Series Champion, I want some of what you are smoking..... I am not saying you need a team full of all-stars, but you have to have role players in the right mix, not filling the middle of the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 This will probably be considered an anti-Miles post, but it is not. It is intended to make Sox fans think a bit differently.... Imagine the Sox winning the World Series, beating the Atlanta Braves (for example. Do you realistically see Aaron Miles as the starting 2Bman? The reason KW went out and got Everett and Alomar is because he felt those guys could help you win the World Series. Unfortunately, the Twins had something to say about that. My point is think bigger than making the playoffs. What kind of team will it take to win the World Series. Generally WS winners are strong up the middle and that is the Sox biggest question mark. The Sox are committed to Olivo for the future and he is good enough defensively. Rowand plays his ass off and could be a spark plug for a winning club. Valentin? Miles? Harris? The bottom line is one, perhaps two of these guys could fit into a WS team with the right players around them. But if you can realistically envision Miguel Olivo, Aaron Miles/Willie Harris, Jose Valentin and Aaron Rowand manning the middle of the diamond on a World Series Champion, I want some of what you are smoking..... I am not saying you need a team full of all-stars, but you have to have role players in the right mix, not filling the middle of the field. What free agents are role players? Anyone have a list of FA's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Jason, you think the Sox will pay $7.3 mil or more??? Can't see it happening here. No...I take that back...only way he's back is if the Sox bring him back at a lesser price. They won't be tendering him anything. I just want Matsui and Castillo or Castillo and Guzman. Damn it I'd love to have one of those combos. Then let Reed/Rowand/Borchard battle it out. Personally I think Reed is gonna do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 This will probably be considered an anti-Miles post, but it is not. It is intended to make Sox fans think a bit differently.... Imagine the Sox winning the World Series, beating the Atlanta Braves (for example. Do you realistically see Aaron Miles as the starting 2Bman? The reason KW went out and got Everett and Alomar is because he felt those guys could help you win the World Series. Unfortunately, the Twins had something to say about that. My point is think bigger than making the playoffs. What kind of team will it take to win the World Series. Generally WS winners are strong up the middle and that is the Sox biggest question mark. The Sox are committed to Olivo for the future and he is good enough defensively. Rowand plays his ass off and could be a spark plug for a winning club. Valentin? Miles? Harris? The bottom line is one, perhaps two of these guys could fit into a WS team with the right players around them. But if you can realistically envision Miguel Olivo, Aaron Miles/Willie Harris, Jose Valentin and Aaron Rowand manning the middle of the diamond on a World Series Champion, I want some of what you are smoking..... I am not saying you need a team full of all-stars, but you have to have role players in the right mix, not filling the middle of the field. Like I say Rex...you fill two holes by getting Guzman/Castillo or Matsui/Castillo. You fill the 2nd/ss position for a long time and also have your top of the order combo for a long long time. Then up the middle you have very good defense everywhere. We know Rowand/Reed are good defensive centerfielders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Here is how I think the Sox will look next year C - Olivo 1B - Konerko 2B - Alomar SS - Valentin 3B - Crede LF - Lee CF - Rowand RF - Maggs DH - Thomas SP - Buehrle SP - Loiaza SP - Garland SP - 4-5M/yr FA or veteran picked up in a trade SP - Shoey/Rauch/Diaz/Pacheco/Yofu CP - Gordon or Sully LP - Marte LP - Wunsch RP - Wright RP - Ginter RP - Koch IF - Graffy IF - Miles IF/CF - Harris C - Alomar/Rivera/Burke OF - cheap FA Now here is how I would like to see it C - Olivo 1B - Ortiz(I loved this guy when he was in Minn and wish the Sox would have picked him up.) 2B - Loretta(I have always been a big fan of his. Has never hit below .289, has solid plate disipline, is solid defensively, and cheap. San Deigo has a ton of middle infield prospects so he might be available.) SS - Guzman(His D and speed are a given and if he can live up to his potential offensively the Sox have a solid SS for years to come.) 3B - Crede LF - Lee CF - Rowand RF - Maggs DH - Thomas SP - Colon SP - Buehrle SP - Loiaza SP - Garland SP - Shoey/Rauch/Diaz/Pacheco/Yofu CP - 2 of the 3 Gordon/Sully/Hawkins LH - Marte LH - Wunsch RH - Wright RH - Ginter IF - Graffy IF - Miles IF/CF - Harris C - Rivera/Burke OF - whoever I really think this 2nd team has a chance to be very good and go deep into the playoffs. You add a lefty bat to the middle of the order in Ortiz. You solidify the middle infield and give yourself 2 quality top of the order guys. You keep Colon and the top 4 in the rotation that did so well, and if you get any production from the 5th starter it will be an improvement over this year. Get 2 out of the 3(Gordon/Sully/Hawkins) to improve the pen, since a good pen is a vital part in todays game. This team would cost only a little more then the team that is most likely going to be put out there with Koch and Konerko being traded, and Everett, Valentin, and Alomar gone. The only trouble is somehow getting Ortiz from Boston, Loretta from San Diego(shouldnt be that tough), resigning Colon(will be tough), signing Guzman, and 2 out of the 3 for the pen(Gordon, Sully, Hawkins). In reality, I think Everett and Colon are as good as gone, I think Alomar and Valentin will be back(unfortunately), I think Koch and Konerko will still be in a Sox uniform, and I think the only significant signing/move the Sox will make will be adding a mid-level starting pitcher to replace Colon. I hope I am wrong, but I have a feeling thats how it is going to end up. ps What is Ortiz's contract statis with Boston? Did he sign a 1 year deal or was it longer? I would really love to see the Sox get their hands on this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I think Ortiz is a free agent, not positive on that though. I do like your idea though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Could today's lineup possibly be one that of 2004? 1b-Daubach 2b-Miles ss-Valentin 3b-Crede c-Olivo lf-Everett cf-Harris rf-Ordonez dh-Lee Then we could let Skirt go and trade Konerko...that would be sweet! That middle infield would be HORRIBLE. Miles plays his ass off, but having Jose and Miles in the middle infield isn't exactly a stellar combo. Now maybe if we had Alomar and say someone like Cristian Guzman in the middle infield, that would be a thing of beauty to watch!! I don't mind having C Lee DH, but I'd rather have C Lee in left and have Rowand in Center and having Carl DH. Daubach can be a pretty good hitter when he's locked in, so that works for me. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I think Ortiz is a free agent, not positive on that though. I do like your idea though. If Ortiz is a free agent I would love to see him in a White Sox uniform. I also heard Cristian Guzman was also a free agent? Robbie and Guzman would be a killer double play combo!! CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 This is the lineup I'd love to see.. DH- Everett 1B- Thomas 2B- Alomar/Castillo SS- KAZUI MATSUI! I don't know why, but I want him BADLY. 3B- Crede LF- Carlos Lee CF- Rowand RF- Maggs C- Olivo/Sandy (If he doesn't retire)/ Burke Bench: Graffy Daubach Harris Miles Reed Everett, if he doesn't mind, would be a solid DH, this takes away his defensive liability, but keeps his fireyness on the team. I've seen him in the dugout, and he dances, sings, hops around, he's the man. He'd be a great.. cheer leader, so to speak, for the defense. If Rowand stinks up the joint again, you can platoon Everett and/or Reed, mostly Everett, at Center Field, move Frank to DH, and move Daubach to 1st Base, or vice versa. I don't see us doing too bad with Robbie at 2nd next year, but someone younger, with a better batting average would help a lot. I want Matsui at Short Stop, nothing more, nothing less. It would be in JR's best best interest to get him. It would help greatly to have the Japanese media at the Cell, following the Sox around, and televising them in Japan. And hopefully, Lee will be the same as he was this year, and Maggs will up the power numbers like in previous years. Frank, although a defensive liability at first, has proven that he CAN get the job done at first, and I wouldn't mind seeing him there as long as we have a good defensive 2nd basemen. REalistically, I don't think Daubach will be back next year, but this is a dreamers lineup. I want Jose out of here, he can be a team leader somewhere else. In my opinion, he would flourish with a younger team, be a good power hitter, okay defensively, and be a good role model. Jose may like it here, but it's in his best interest to leave. If Sandy retires, I don't think it'd be too bad of an idea to platoon Olivo and Burke. Burke is a decent hitter, moreso then Miguel. If we're up against a good pitcher, we may need his bat in the lineup, so I'd go with Burke on days we're up against a good pitcher, and use Miguel on days we're against newer/easier pitchers. And the starting lineup could be... 2B- Robbie Alomar/Castillo LF- Carlos Lee 1B- Frank Thomas SS- Kazui Matsui RF- Magglio Ordonez DH- Carl Everett 3B- Joe Crede CF- Aaron Rowand C- Olivo/Burke Carlos is a great 2-spot hitter, keep him there. Frank, at the beginning of the year, deserves the 3-spot, if he fails again, bump him down to 5 or 6. Kazui, In my opinion, is an ideal 4-spot hitter. He has decent power numbers, an excellent batting average, and basically, he can clean up, which is what the 4-hole is. He can rip a double or a triple and clean those bases up. Plus, he's speedy. Half-step faster than Ichiro? That's impressive. He get's a single, he can steal second, steal third, do whatever to get in scroing position. Then you have a power core of Maggs and Carl. Both of these guys can get guys home, they're good 5-6 hitters. Then you basically have our 'rookies', which aren't too bad. We wouldn't have Everett right now if Rowand had been producing at the beginning of the year. next year is his year, he won't be riding any motorcycles so he should be just fine. I'm looking forward to seeing Joe Crede next year. Hopefully he won't be a second half hitter again. Now he's got a full year under his belt, anything can happen. More realistically, I also happen to have a liking to Scott Spiezio, and we could get rid of Everett, he does cost a lot more than Spiezio, and have Spiezio play first, with Frank still DHing. He would offer good defense, and we'd have an excellent core of: Crede 3rd, Matsui SS, Robbie/Castillo 2B, Spiezio 1B. I'd feel pretty comfortable with them defensively. I think we can keep the same outfield, with Lee, Rowand, and Maggs. On to the pitching staff. I want pretty much the same starting rotation, with the exception of the 5th pitcher. It's pretty certain we're going to pick up that option on Loaiza, and I'd love to see Buerhle and Colon back. Colon, I believe, was having some sort of injury earlier this year, something HAD to have been bugging him. After the offseason, I'm optimistic he'll be fully healthy like he was with Montreal. Re-signing him is a must. Who else would we get? That'd leave us with Mark, Jonny, and Esteban. You can't get much better of a free agent than you can with Colon, so our Startign Rotation would be weaker than it was this year. And we still have that blistering 5th starter problem. I don't care what some people think of Colon, he was all smiles during Estebans 20th/21st victories, and even on more occasions I've seen him having fun in the dugout. Despite what people say, I think he likes the atmosphere here with the White Sox, and hopefully, wants to stay. I think Kenny could work his magic again and sign a decent FA for the 5th spot. Our rotation would be.... 1- Esteban Loaiza 2- Bartolo Colon 3- Mark Buerhle 4- Jon Garland 5- FA/Minor Leaguer/Danny Wright We need to keep Schoeneweis in the pen, unless we sign another long reliever. I'm pretty comfortable with our bullpen, but one move that needs to be done is getting Latroy Hawkins, the guy is a right handed Damaso Marte. Just think about it, TWO DAMASO MARTES! Both guys can shut down an offense for 3 or 4 innings. Then you have a closer, Billy Koch. I'm optimistic about the return of Billy Koch. I think he'll be great next year. If you can re-sign Gordon, do it. I think we should get Sully back as well, he's great if Damaso or Latroy would be tired, as would Tom Gordon. We have our long reliever, Schoene. Damaso Marte Latroy Hawkins Tom Gordon Billy Koch Scott Sullivan Scott Schoeneweis Kelly Wunsch I'm not too excellent with payroll, if someone has an estimate of what this team would cost, tell me, I'm hoping it's not over 70, but it most likely is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 This is the lineup I'd love to see.. DH- Everett 1B- Thomas 2B- Alomar/Castillo SS- KAZUI MATSUI! I don't know why, but I want him BADLY. 3B- Crede LF- Carlos Lee CF- Rowand RF- Maggs C- Olivo/Sandy (If he doesn't retire)/ Burke Bench: Graffy Daubach Harris Miles Reed Everett, if he doesn't mind, would be a solid DH, this takes away his defensive liability, but keeps his fireyness on the team. I've seen him in the dugout, and he dances, sings, hops around, he's the man. He'd be a great.. cheer leader, so to speak, for the defense. If Rowand stinks up the joint again, you can platoon Everett and/or Reed, mostly Everett, at Center Field, move Frank to DH, and move Daubach to 1st Base, or vice versa. I don't see us doing too bad with Robbie at 2nd next year, but someone younger, with a better batting average would help a lot. I want Matsui at Short Stop, nothing more, nothing less. It would be in JR's best best interest to get him. It would help greatly to have the Japanese media at the Cell, following the Sox around, and televising them in Japan. And hopefully, Lee will be the same as he was this year, and Maggs will up the power numbers like in previous years. Frank, although a defensive liability at first, has proven that he CAN get the job done at first, and I wouldn't mind seeing him there as long as we have a good defensive 2nd basemen. REalistically, I don't think Daubach will be back next year, but this is a dreamers lineup. I want Jose out of here, he can be a team leader somewhere else. In my opinion, he would flourish with a younger team, be a good power hitter, okay defensively, and be a good role model. Jose may like it here, but it's in his best interest to leave. If Sandy retires, I don't think it'd be too bad of an idea to platoon Olivo and Burke. Burke is a decent hitter, moreso then Miguel. If we're up against a good pitcher, we may need his bat in the lineup, so I'd go with Burke on days we're up against a good pitcher, and use Miguel on days we're against newer/easier pitchers. And the starting lineup could be... 2B- Robbie Alomar/Castillo LF- Carlos Lee 1B- Frank Thomas SS- Kazui Matsui RF- Magglio Ordonez DH- Carl Everett 3B- Joe Crede CF- Aaron Rowand C- Olivo/Burke Carlos is a great 2-spot hitter, keep him there. Frank, at the beginning of the year, deserves the 3-spot, if he fails again, bump him down to 5 or 6. Kazui, In my opinion, is an ideal 4-spot hitter. He has decent power numbers, an excellent batting average, and basically, he can clean up, which is what the 4-hole is. He can rip a double or a triple and clean those bases up. Plus, he's speedy. Half-step faster than Ichiro? That's impressive. He get's a single, he can steal second, steal third, do whatever to get in scroing position. Then you have a power core of Maggs and Carl. Both of these guys can get guys home, they're good 5-6 hitters. Then you basically have our 'rookies', which aren't too bad. We wouldn't have Everett right now if Rowand had been producing at the beginning of the year. next year is his year, he won't be riding any motorcycles so he should be just fine. I'm looking forward to seeing Joe Crede next year. Hopefully he won't be a second half hitter again. Now he's got a full year under his belt, anything can happen. More realistically, I also happen to have a liking to Scott Spiezio, and we could get rid of Everett, he does cost a lot more than Spiezio, and have Spiezio play first, with Frank still DHing. He would offer good defense, and we'd have an excellent core of: Crede 3rd, Matsui SS, Robbie/Castillo 2B, Spiezio 1B. I'd feel pretty comfortable with them defensively. I think we can keep the same outfield, with Lee, Rowand, and Maggs. On to the pitching staff. I want pretty much the same starting rotation, with the exception of the 5th pitcher. It's pretty certain we're going to pick up that option on Loaiza, and I'd love to see Buerhle and Colon back. Colon, I believe, was having some sort of injury earlier this year, something HAD to have been bugging him. After the offseason, I'm optimistic he'll be fully healthy like he was with Montreal. Re-signing him is a must. Who else would we get? That'd leave us with Mark, Jonny, and Esteban. You can't get much better of a free agent than you can with Colon, so our Startign Rotation would be weaker than it was this year. And we still have that blistering 5th starter problem. I don't care what some people think of Colon, he was all smiles during Estebans 20th/21st victories, and even on more occasions I've seen him having fun in the dugout. Despite what people say, I think he likes the atmosphere here with the White Sox, and hopefully, wants to stay. I think Kenny could work his magic again and sign a decent FA for the 5th spot. Our rotation would be.... 1- Esteban Loaiza 2- Bartolo Colon 3- Mark Buerhle 4- Jon Garland 5- FA/Minor Leaguer/Danny Wright We need to keep Schoeneweis in the pen, unless we sign another long reliever. I'm pretty comfortable with our bullpen, but one move that needs to be done is getting Latroy Hawkins, the guy is a right handed Damaso Marte. Just think about it, TWO DAMASO MARTES! Both guys can shut down an offense for 3 or 4 innings. Then you have a closer, Billy Koch. I'm optimistic about the return of Billy Koch. I think he'll be great next year. If you can re-sign Gordon, do it. I think we should get Sully back as well, he's great if Damaso or Latroy would be tired, as would Tom Gordon. We have our long reliever, Schoene. Damaso Marte Latroy Hawkins Tom Gordon Billy Koch Scott Sullivan Scott Schoeneweis Kelly Wunsch I'm not too excellent with payroll, if someone has an estimate of what this team would cost, tell me, I'm hoping it's not over 70, but it most likely is. Thats pretty much identical to the way I want the lineup to look. From my calculations as long as you move Konerko and don't bring back Carl...you'll be right at 70 mill or a mill or two under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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