iamshack Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:28 PM) I've seen first hand the results of child abuse. Being killed may be an easier sentence than living through the effects of such an atrocious violation of dignity. My exwife was kidnapped and molested for years as a child. There... I said it. That's just one reason I'm biased heavily on this topic. If she somehow continued that cycle over to my son, I wouldn't have a single ounce of sympathy or leniency. f*** people like Himlech, f*** the piss poor statutes of limitations in many cases for these offenses, f*** a society that just wants to push issues like this into the dark, f*** plea bargains for offenders, and f*** this kids potential as a baseball player. H8is, I'm terribly sorry that this has impacted you so closely, and I can understand why it triggers such a response from you. The good news is, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that female victims of molestation are more prone to molesting others (engaging in a cycle of molestation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) What is this? some sort of bizarro discussion where I can only answer questions you ask? OK. Shoot. You asked me a question first, to which I answered you. You then responded with a series of statements, one of which I commented on. Not sure where you lost me there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) You then responded with a series of statements, one of which I commented on. No one asked you to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) Fine, her college professor. Better? For f***s sakes. And now we are equating this kid to a serial killer. I'm not going to even bother. You obviously missed my point. You scorn DA for suggesting he's accountable for his behavior no matter what happened in his own childhood, and I'm telling you that all sorts of people who do s***ty things were themselves subject to terrible s***, and it never matters. Luke Heimlich did something much worse than I've ever done in my life, and he did it repeatedly for two years. He might be a free man, but he's also a very troubled one, and he should not be afforded the chance to play in MLB. If you find that too judgmental on my part, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:48 PM) You obviously missed my point. You scorn DA for suggesting he's accountable for his behavior no matter what happened in his own childhood, and I'm telling you that all sorts of people who do s***ty things were themselves subject to terrible s***, and it never matters. Luke Heimlich did something much worse than I've ever done in my life, and he did it repeatedly for two years. He might be a free man, but he's also a very troubled one, and he should not be afforded the chance to play in MLB. If you find that too judgmental on my part, so be it. No, I saw your point full well. And you made it in a way that made it very clear how you feel. You have every right to feel as though he should not be allowed to play professional baseball. I don't begrudge you for that. It is still not the case, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:37 PM) H8is, I'm terribly sorry that this has impacted you so closely, and I can understand why it triggers such a response from you. The good news is, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that female victims of molestation are more prone to molesting others (engaging in a cycle of molestation). I chose to get married to someone who I knew had deep issues stemming from trauma and also chose to have a child with her. I'm not concerned that she's going to continue her cycle of abuse but the circumstances of my life are mainly a result of my own naive decisions.... mainly that giving love to another person can help them heal. Without someone taking ownership of their own process of confrontation, there's no hope. My hope with Himlech is that it stirs the public debate about this overlooked and under represented topic. Doubt that happens thou... under the carpet it will go, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:52 PM) It is still not the case, however. 30 general managers and 30 owners will collectively determine that. We'll see and I sure as s*** hope he's not drafted... it would be a vindicating conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Not difficult at all - do not draft him. Whether he should be allowed in MLB or another team should draft him is another question. But as for the Sox: do not draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 02:50 PM) I don't know if this is the case here, but maybe this kid himself was also molested as a child? Certainly not trying to defend him, not trying to take a position on any particular team taking him, but just throwing out the fact that we really don't know much before we rush to all this judgment. We know he molested a young child multiple times. Quite frankly the why doesn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 03:31 PM) Not really, Dick. You come to your own conclusions, I will come to mine. Part of that is a legal conclusion stating that he should not be disallowed the privilege of playing professional ball because of his crime. That is not part of his punishment, is it? I have not questioned anyone's moral judgment, and I have stated that repeatedly. Nor have I questioned anyone's desire for the White Sox to avoid this player. Obviously that has offended you and caused you to attack me personally. You are the one in the thread about a convicted child molestor who said people are rushing to judgement, Do you think if Oregon knew about this he would have been on their team? If you were a scouting director and it was round 40 and he was on the board, you would have no problem going to your owner and saying he is by far the best player available and you want to draft him, correct? Professional baseball isn't the only occupation that would red flag him because of his legal status. I think he will have a tough time finding a decent job. Edited June 12, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 02:30 PM) You are the one in the thread about a convicted child molestor who said people are rushing to judgement, Do you think if Oregon knew about this he would have been on their team? If you were a scouting director and it was round 40 and he was on the board, you would have no problem going to your owner and saying he is by far the best player available and you want to draft him, correct? Professional baseball isn't the only occupation that would red flag him because of his legal status. I think he will have a tough time finding a decent job. DA, I don't really know what I would do if I was a scouting director. What I do know is that the kid is legally allowed and encouraged to become a productive member of society from this point on. It does no one any good if he goes on to make less of his life from here on out, does it? What if he was given a chance, and managed to succeed, and donated some of his career earnings to charity or something? I mean, it does no one any good for him to become a ditch digger and become an alcoholic or something. He has served his punishment, and will continue to serve it as a sex offender. I, personally, have no moral issue with him being allowed to play professional baseball. If you do, that is your prerogative, and I accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 04:54 PM) DA, I don't really know what I would do if I was a scouting director. What I do know is that the kid is legally allowed and encouraged to become a productive member of society from this point on. It does no one any good if he goes on to make less of his life from here on out, does it? What if he was given a chance, and managed to succeed, and donated some of his career earnings to charity or something? I mean, it does no one any good for him to become a ditch digger and become an alcoholic or something. He has served his punishment, and will continue to serve it as a sex offender. I, personally, have no moral issue with him being allowed to play professional baseball. If you do, that is your prerogative, and I accept that. What punishment did he serve? Did he do any jail time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 03:23 PM) What punishment did he serve? Did he do any jail time? Some community service, therapy, and being on the offender list. No jail time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 11:19 PM) Some community service, therapy, and being on the offender list. No jail time. He was a juvenile when this occurred, and he was classified as being very unlikely to be a repeat offender. This is not particularly uncommon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 08:11 AM) He was a juvenile when this occurred, and he was classified as being very unlikely to be a repeat offender. This is not particularly uncommon. Yea... well considering he plead down from felony charges, dude got off easy when it comes to the law. It looks like the social ramifications may be catching up thou, as I don't see him listed in the draft. Maybe he silently withdrew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) I can't imagine any team taking on all the trouble that would come with drafting the guy. Even in a best case scenario where he proves to be an MLB talent, what do you do then? Call him up only to spark even more attention to it? This certainly wouldn't be the first time when having something like this on your record was a job killer. Edited June 13, 2017 by bighurt574 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 It's pretty deplorable what he did and it his age (IMO) he should have been tried as an adult. You know what you're doing sexually at 15 and you certainly know that a 6 year old is off limits. That said, it shouldn't preclude him from getting a job in baseball. But the PR will be so bad for any team that drafts him I don't think he's worth anything but a late round player with a "we're confident he's paid his debt to society" sort of thing. But can you imagine if he re-offends? That team would be a PR nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Where was he originally expected to go? First round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 01:42 PM) Where was he originally expected to go? First round? If my memory is correct he was slated as somewhere around the #45 overall talent in the draft. So, likely second round maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just to further clarify the record on this... an article surfaced with direct quotes from the District Attorney in the county where the crimes where committed. http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian...trict_atto.html It's not a one-time event. This is significant. he was 15 when it started I don't mean this as any malice toward this young person. That's not what this is about... society views these crimes, especially over an extended period against such a young person, a vulnerable person, as serious. I hope people will talk about this first, especially before baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Through 10 rounds and no one picked him. So is this kid's life over or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 01:41 AM) Through 10 rounds and no one picked him. So is this kid's life over or what? He's what... 21? He's got a lot of life ahead of him and will get his chance to "be judged for the person (he) is today" - as he pined for in the statement he released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Their might be a team that takes him today in the later rounds since their won't be a pick value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) A lot of people have had to make it in life without the opportunity to be a professional baseball player. Looks like he will as well. Good. My thoughts are with his victim. May she be able to somehow have a normal rest of her life. Edited June 14, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 05:21 AM) Their might be a team that takes him today in the later rounds since their won't be a pick value. And if they don't, my guess is he will be signed as an undrafted FA at some point when some of the dust settles. Some team will give him a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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