Painful and Difficult situation

[Bob Sacamano]

And if they don't, my guess is he will be signed as an undrafted FA at some point when some of the dust settles.

 

Some team will give him a chance.

 

I could see some team drafting him. I really don't want it to be the Sox. I think I could maybe talk myself into it being "ok" but man I don't know if I'd feel good about myself cheering for him.

Edited June 14, 2017 by soxfan2014

[southsider2k5]

And if they don't, my guess is he will be signed as an undrafted FA at some point when some of the dust settles.

 

Some team will give him a chance.

 

Might even be an easier path if he worked through an independent team first. I think this kids best shot is the longer removed he is from the time this happened, and the longer he goes without anything happening again, the easier it is for a team to take a chance on him. With the news still be relatively new, the inferno is too hot for any MLB team to touch him right now.

[hi8is]

The voice of a "second chance" expressed from a leading rehabilitation expert: http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/36...-luke-heimlich-

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

He's what... 21? He's got a lot of life ahead of him and will get his chance to "be judged for the person (he) is today" - as he pined for in the statement he released.

 

That's kind of my point. If this had come out like 3 years ago, he would be drafted by now, right? This can't be a death sentence for this kid, it was just bad timing for his career. How long is the appropriate amount of time until a team can give him a chance again? It's just kind of an interesting societal case study, that's mostly related to Public Relations blow back.

[hi8is]

That's kind of my point. If this had come out like 3 years ago, he would be drafted by now, right? This can't be a death sentence for this kid, it was just bad timing for his career. How long is the appropriate amount of time until a team can give him a chance again? It's just kind of an interesting societal case study, that's mostly related to Public Relations blow back.

Who knows what the ramifications would have been if the story broke 3 years ago. Maybe he wouldn't have even played college ball.

[southsider2k5]

Who knows what the ramifications would have been if the story broke 3 years ago. Maybe he wouldn't have even played college ball.

 

I think it is safe to say he wouldn't have. But then again, maybe he plays independent league ball instead?

[LittleHurt05]

It's pretty deplorable what he did and it his age (IMO) he should have been tried as an adult. You know what you're doing sexually at 15 and you certainly know that a 6 year old is off limits.

 

That said, it shouldn't preclude him from getting a job in baseball. But the PR will be so bad for any team that drafts him I don't think he's worth anything but a late round player with a "we're confident he's paid his debt to society" sort of thing. But can you imagine if he re-offends? That team would be a PR nightmare.

 

The law disagrees in the US, see the statutory rape laws

[LittleHurt05]

I think it is safe to say he wouldn't have. But then again, maybe he plays independent league ball instead?

 

I think he still would have, college coaches love to give skilled players a second chance. Maybe he starts out at a JC or CC, but a transfer to a big school like that is entirely possible. It's not like there are pending charges, he committed a crime, the law punished him and that's over with.

[southsider2k5]

I think he still would have, college coaches love to give skilled players a second chance. Maybe he starts out at a JC or CC, but a transfer to a big school like that is entirely possible. It's not like there are pending charges, he committed a crime, the law punished him and that's over with.

 

Coaches pass on kids today based on what they post in their twitter and facebook pages. This is a whole other world from that. Look at the retroactive grief that OU got for Mixon.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah, I mean what's to stop him from walking on wherever he wants to go in this hypothetical. Adolescent sex offenders aren't restricted from going to college.

At many schools, they aren't allowed to live in the dorms.

 

But Oregon apparently wasn't aware of his status, so I wonder how many schools would have been. If he would have just registered again when he was 21, it appears this wouldn't have come out yet. You would think eventually it would.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

At many schools, they aren't allowed to live in the dorms.

 

But Oregon apparently wasn't aware of his status, so I wonder how many schools would have been.

 

The hypothetical was that they did know ahead of time.

[Dick Allen]

The hypothetical was that they did know ahead of time.

That seems like quite the gamble to take, especially in a non revenue sport.

[LittleHurt05]

That seems like quite the gamble to take, especially in a non revenue sport.

 

I think they would be more likely to take that gamble in a non revenue sport because it would be much less scrutinized and discussed. A Pac-12 football player with the same history would be brought up by every media outlet out West.

[Dominikk85]

I think that he has already played his last baseball game. Looks like no team will draft him and I don't think he can go back to college.

[NCsoxfan]

A lot of people have had to make it in life without the opportunity to be a professional baseball player. Looks like he will as well. Good. My thoughts are with his victim. May she be able to somehow have a normal rest of her life.

 

+100. There are consequences for actions. Quite frankly he should be happy he's not in prison and can live a relatively "normal" life.

[reiks12]

There is a high chance that counseling helped this guy. I was a therapist in Missouri for teenagers who did this sort of thing. A little over 90% of teenagers who do this go on to live healthy lives and don't reoffend. The same can't be said about adults.

 

A lot of this sort of thing happens because of doubts about their own sexuality and growing up without any boundaries. Of course there is a lot more to it but thats what was common between most of the kids that I worked with. Most kids I worked with felt great shame and showed a lot of motivation to deal with whatever issues they were going through. More often than not dealing with those issues allowed them to focus on healthy relationships and to honor their victims.

 

Society will never separate child sex offender from adult sex offender even though countless studies suggest they should. Very sad.

[Dominikk85]

There is a high chance that counseling helped this guy. I was a therapist in Missouri for teenagers who did this sort of thing. A little over 90% of teenagers who do this go on to live healthy lives and don't reoffend. The same can't be said about adults.

 

A lot of this sort of thing happens because of doubts about their own sexuality and growing up without any boundaries. Of course there is a lot more to it but thats what was common between most of the kids that I worked with. Most kids I worked with felt great shame and showed a lot of motivation to deal with whatever issues they were going through. More often than not dealing with those issues allowed them to focus on healthy relationships and to honor their victims.

 

Society will never separate child sex offender from adult sex offender even though countless studies suggest they should. Very sad.

 

That is true but there are also people who think he doesn't deserve a second chance regardless of whether there is a chance of relapse or not. Legal punishment is not just to protect society but also for justice to the family of the victim. A murderer also doesn't get a second chance usually even if there is very little risk for a relapse.

[reiks12]

That is true but there are also people who think he doesn't deserve a second chance regardless of whether there is a chance of relapse or not. Legal punishment is not just to protect society but also for justice to the family of the victim. A murderer also doesn't get a second chance usually even if there is very little risk for a relapse.

 

Before I go further I will say I don't condone child molestation, it kept me up at night hearing the stuff these kids of done.

 

There is a fine line between justice and revenge. Prison, jail, or forced therapy was put in place to rehabilitate, not punish. If the young man is rehabilitated and is doing what he needs to do then that in itself is providing justice. It means there won't be another victim who will then create more victims as they age. It is breaking the cycle.

 

Revenge doesn't help anyone and might in fact deter others from coming forward be it the offender or victim.

 

I completely understand the revenge mentality towards these kind of people as it is human nature to want to protect children. It becomes especially hard when its a child hurting another.

 

I haven't looked into this story too much and I will admit I didn't read this thread, but I did read that he put himself in a situation where he had no support that knew of his past and that he was still spending time around minors. Not sure what minors means in this context. Still, that isn't something he should have done and if his counseling was any good he would know that. That is a huge red flag.

[hi8is]

... I did read that he put himself in a situation where he had no support that knew of his past and that he was still spending time around minors. Not sure what minors means in this context. Still, that isn't something he should have done and if his counseling was any good he would know that. That is a huge red flag.

Thanks for your thoughts in a couple of places here. Can you expound upon the above, as I haven't come across it and don't have your background. Also, what do you think of the fact that this abuse happened for two years starting when the victim was 4 and ending when she was 6?

 

I understand completely what you mean about being kept up at night by being exposed to this sort of trauma. Been there. The concept of secondary victim or trauma by proxy is real.

[oldsox]

I think that he has already played his last baseball game. Looks like no team will draft him and I don't think he can go back to college.

Not true.

 

He is returning to Oregon State next season. His Coach and the University President are behind him -- publicly. As of now, he will be part of the team next year.

 

None of knows what he did or didn't do 6 years ago, and I'm not so sure that this is doing any good for anyone other than the so called journalist who broke the story. No one knows who tipped him off. I doubt if it was the victim's family

 

[reiks12]

Thanks for your thoughts in a couple of places here. Can you expound upon the above, as I haven't come across it and don't have your background. Also, what do you think of the fact that this abuse happened for two years starting when the victim was 4 and ending when she was 6?

 

I understand completely what you mean about being kept up at night by being exposed to this sort of trauma. Been there. The concept of secondary victim or trauma by proxy is real.

 

Every case is different however I would say that a lot of these are when the offender wants power and control over something in their lives. As I mentioned earlier it might also be exploring sexuality (seen a lot when teenage boys molest other boys), or maybe they are just plain attracted to children. Most of the time once they are deep into their counseling they discover for themselves what it is they are really getting out of it. Once they figure that out they can start to "heal" themselves.

 

As far as the red flag comments goes, we would have the offenders create safety plans where they would recognize whenever they were about to have thoughts. My group would make a list about ten things they need to be mindful of and 5 things that were extremely high risk. For instance, arguing with mom and dad would be something an offender would have to be mindful of because it could set off a chain reaction of events, or a cycle as we call it. That argument could lead to this teenager shutting out his parents (remember, offenders love control), hiding in his room, watching porn, manipulating, until eventually reoffending. As a counselor it was easy to see who was in a cycle. Some kids would be wearing their coats in the middle of summer (they are hiding something), others just wouldn't bathe (trying to push people away). Some would say outlandish comments to try and get a reaction out of you (pushing away again or 'hey, please ask me what is wrong'.

 

Being able to exit this cycle is crucial and creating this safety plan is a must. So if a teenager is able to say to himself "ok, I am starting to argue, I am going to say OK to this and not let it affect me", then the above scenario not likely to happen. If that kid argues and shuts his door, he has to be aware that he is in a cycle and that he needs to find a way to exit it as soon as possible before things get worse. That is just one example of many, everyone has triggers. For instance when I was quitting smoking I couldn't go on balconies and there were some friends I just couldn't see because I knew I would relapse. If I did happen to be around those friends on a balcony, I would have to figure out a way to either remove myself or have them punch me in the face if i asked for a smoke. Anything not to smoke.

 

The 5 things that were of extreme high risk would be being alone with children at any time, not informing your support team of activities involving minors, lying (power again, lying for whatever reason gives them adrenaline rush), being around computers alone, or having sexual thoughts relating to children. If these events were to trigger than the offender would need to reach out for support.

 

It may sound silly but these lists were INGRAINED in their brains and they lived by them. As strange as that sounds it is the most important thing for these kids because 99% of them WANT to get better. They want to be normal.

 

With all that said, that is why I am concerned with him being alone with minors still. That is the most basic thing they teach these offenders and since it was beaten in his head for 2 years he should know better than that. That is a red flag meaning hes being sneaky about it. Sneaky is high risk.

 

Anyways, sorry if the above is confusing and all over the place. I typed it up fast and there is a lot to say on the topic.

Edited June 16, 2017 by reiks12

[hi8is]

Every case is different however I would say that a lot of these are when the offender wants power and control over something in their lives. As I mentioned earlier it might also be exploring sexuality (seen a lot when teenage boys molest other boys), or maybe they are just plain attracted to children. Most of the time once they are deep into their counseling they discover for themselves what it is they are really getting out of it. Once they figure that out they can start to "heal" themselves.

 

As far as the red flag comments goes, we would have the offenders create safety plans where they would recognize whenever they were about to have thoughts. My group would make a list about ten things they need to be mindful of and 5 things that were extremely high risk. For instance, arguing with mom and dad would be something an offender would have to be mindful of because it could set off a chain reaction of events, or a cycle as we call it. That argument could lead to this teenager shutting out his parents (remember, offenders love control), hiding in his room, watching porn, manipulating, until eventually reoffending. As a counselor it was easy to see who was in a cycle. Some kids would be wearing their coats in the middle of summer (they are hiding something), others just wouldn't bathe (trying to push people away). Some would say outlandish comments to try and get a reaction out of you (pushing away again or 'hey, please ask me what is wrong'.

 

Being able to exit this cycle is crucial and creating this safety plan is a must. So if a teenager is able to say to himself "ok, I am starting to argue, I am going to say OK to this and not let it affect me", then the above scenario not likely to happen. If that kid argues and shuts his door, he has to be aware that he is in a cycle and that he needs to find a way to exit it as soon as possible before things get worse. That is just one example of many, everyone has triggers. For instance when I was quitting smoking I couldn't go on balconies and there were some friends I just couldn't see because I knew I would relapse. If I did happen to be around those friends on a balcony, I would have to figure out a way to either remove myself or have them punch me in the face if i asked for a smoke. Anything not to smoke.

 

The 5 things that were of extreme high risk would be being alone with children at any time, not informing your support team of activities involving minors, lying (power again, lying for whatever reason gives them adrenaline rush), being around computers alone, or having sexual thoughts relating to children. If these events were to trigger than the offender would need to reach out for support.

 

It may sound silly but these lists were INGRAINED in their brains and they lived by them. As strange as that sounds it is the most important thing for these kids because 99% of them WANT to get better. They want to be normal.

 

With all that said, that is why I am concerned with him being alone with minors still. That is the most basic thing they teach these offenders and since it was beaten in his head for 2 years he should know better than that. That is a red flag meaning hes being sneaky about it. Sneaky is high risk.

 

Anyways, sorry if the above is confusing and all over the place. I typed it up fast and there is a lot to say on the topic.

Thanks for sharing your insights and experience - I found it insightful and succinct. Cheers ??

 

[Quin]

Not true.

 

He is returning to Oregon State next season. His Coach and the University President are behind him -- publicly. As of now, he will be part of the team next year.

 

None of knows what he did or didn't do 6 years ago, and I'm not so sure that this is doing any good for anyone other than the so called journalist who broke the story. No one knows who tipped him off. I doubt if it was the victim's family

 

We do know, because a real journalist investigated.