2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

[shipps]

Vincent was on with Bernstein and Goff and thinks Butler is definitely getting moved. Says there's too much smoke this time and multiple sources and people he talks to are saying they are dealing him. They don't want him with Hoiberg and they don't want to pay him $240 million

 

If these are the reasons they are trading him??? F us all.

[Jenksismyhero]

But with the Bulls' desire to free head coach Fred Hoiberg of Butler due to their lack of a fruitful relationship and belief he can improve in his third year, this is the road the franchise is choosing to walk down.

 

The Bulls were rebuffed on an offer to the Celtics for the third pick straight-up, but bringing the Cavaliers to the table could increase the quality of offers for Butler, who would be eligible for a deal in the $40 million range annually if he makes another All-NBA team next season.

 

Ok, so two things here:

 

1) f*** GarPax if the reason to move him is to give Hoiberg another shot. That's asinine.

 

2) If the Bulls were demanding the 3rd pick and got rejected, and that's the value, no thanks. I'd rather keep Butler and sign him long term and he can be a Bull the rest of his career.

Edited June 20, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[southsider2k5]

Bernstein & Goff‏ @Bernstein_Goff 51m51 minutes ago

 

Vincent Goodwill says the Nuggets tried to land Butler at the deadline and that he wouldn't be surprised to see them in on bidding by Thurs.

 

[Soxbadger]

Celtics arent worth dealing with right now. If they wont even give up #3 there is just no point even discussing.

 

If they are really going to move Butler, I think the best idea is something really outside of the box like trading for Cleveland's picks in 2020/beyond. The Bulls then will suck hardcore for the next 2-3 years and then by that time Cavs will likely suck too, so youd be looking pretty good in 5 years.

 

[shipps]

The Bulls either ROYALLY f*** this up by accepting some horses*** trade or they do nothing and keep him to let all the other sucky scenarios play out for the next few years.

 

Oh the fun for us Bulls fans.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Celtics arent worth dealing with right now. If they wont even give up #3 there is just no point even discussing.

 

If they are really going to move Butler, I think the best idea is something really outside of the box like trading for Cleveland's picks in 2020/beyond. The Bulls then will suck hardcore for the next 2-3 years and then by that time Cavs will likely suck too, so youd be looking pretty good in 5 years.

 

So you wouldn't take the 3rd pick this year, but would take some unknown slot picks from 3-5 years from now? It's rare to see GM willing to settle for that far in advance because they may not be around by that time. You also have to take into consideration you can't have two consecutive years without 1st round pick, so you might have to settle for Cavs 2020, 2022, and 2024 1st round picks, which means you won't get full return from the trade for 7 years.

[illinilaw08]

So you wouldn't take the 3rd pick this year, but would take some unknown slot picks from 3-5 years from now? It's rare to see GM willing to settle for that far in advance because they may not be around by that time. You also have to take into consideration you can't have two consecutive years without 1st round pick, so you might have to settle for Cavs 2020, 2022, and 2024 1st round picks, which means you won't get full return from the trade for 7 years.

 

Can't you do pick swaps in the odd years? So it would look like Cavs 2020, swap 2021, Cavs 2022, swap 2023 (if you were hitting 4 years). Ideally by 2020, there's an interesting young core that is supplemented with high lottery picks from the Cavs (see the Celtics-Nets trade for the ideal example of how this works out).

 

The philosophy here should be bottoming out and rebuilding through the draft. That means the Bulls aren't looking to be a playoff team until 2020 or so. Other than adding multiple high picks earlier in the process - something that really only Boston can give you - adding high picks 4-5 years down the road as a component of the trade actually has some value. Of course, the Bulls would be betting huge on Lebron opting out. Also those picks being in the late 20s would be a disaster.

[Soxbadger]

So you wouldn't take the 3rd pick this year, but would take some unknown slot picks from 3-5 years from now? It's rare to see GM willing to settle for that far in advance because they may not be around by that time. You also have to take into consideration you can't have two consecutive years without 1st round pick, so you might have to settle for Cavs 2020, 2022, and 2024 1st round picks, which means you won't get full return from the trade for 7 years.

 

Im not running the Bulls, I wouldnt do any of that.

 

But if the Bulls want to trade Butler this year, then I am going to discuss what I believe to be the best possible deals this year.

 

So what the Bulls wont get full return until 2024? The reality of the NBA is that it is hard to believe the Bulls are going to be a Championship level team in the next 7 years? So why not do something to put themselves in the mix to be one of the teams who are Championship level in the next go around?

 

Allegedly Boston said no to #3 for Butler. That isnt even a great deal for the Bulls. 1 top 3 pick isnt going to change their trajectory. They need multiple high level picks. If they cant get them in the next 2-3 years, may as well aim further out.

 

And just because its rare for a GM to do it, doesnt mean its not the right move for the team.

 

(edit)

 

Illini,

 

Well part of the reason you aim even further out with the Cavs is that James is 32. in 2022 hell be 37 so who knows if he is even an elite player at that point.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Soxbadger

[Buehrle>Wood]

If the centerpiece of this deal is Josh Jackson in going to cry

[iamshack]

If the centerpiece of this deal is Josh Jackson in going to cry

That's ok...we are here to support you.

[Dick Allen]

If the centerpiece of this deal is Josh Jackson in going to cry

A lot of teams really want him. I do think Cleveland at least rumored to be in on Jimmy, could change Ainge's mind. That is the one place he probably doesn't want him to go, but say they did get pick 3. Jackson is supposedly the guy they covet, but what if Magic took him at 2?

 

Would Lonzo Ball be a no brainer? He does have questions. Obviously #1 would be his idiot father who probably wouldn't be too thrilled he was in Chicago. The other is his shot, it seems to go in but it might be a little tougher with bigger stronger more athletic guys guarding him. And I watched something yesterday where depending how you look at it, this is either the way the game is going, or a red flag. Supposedly he had only 7 field goals last year that weren't lay ups or 3 pointers. It is going to be interesting to see how he pans out.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Panerista]

A lot of teams really want him. I do think Cleveland at least rumored to be in on Jimmy, could change Ainge's mind. That is the one place he probably doesn't want him to go, but say they did get pick 3. Jackson is supposedly the guy they covet, but what if Magic took him at 2?

 

Would Lonzo Ball be a no brainer? He does have questions. Obviously #1 would be his idiot father who probably wouldn't be too thrilled he was in Chicago. The other is his shot, it seems to go in but it might be a little tougher with bigger stronger more athletic guys guarding him. And I watched something yesterday where depending how you look at it, this is either the way the game is going, or a red flag. Supposedly he had only 7 field goals last year that weren't lay ups or 3 pointers. It is going to be interesting to see how he pans out.

I think Bulls fans would hate it more than Lavar would. The Bulls are a high recognition franchise and a top five brand in the NBA.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Im not running the Bulls, I wouldnt do any of that.

 

But if the Bulls want to trade Butler this year, then I am going to discuss what I believe to be the best possible deals this year.

 

So what the Bulls wont get full return until 2024? The reality of the NBA is that it is hard to believe the Bulls are going to be a Championship level team in the next 7 years? So why not do something to put themselves in the mix to be one of the teams who are Championship level in the next go around?

 

Allegedly Boston said no to #3 for Butler. That isnt even a great deal for the Bulls. 1 top 3 pick isnt going to change their trajectory. They need multiple high level picks. If they cant get them in the next 2-3 years, may as well aim further out.

 

And just because its rare for a GM to do it, doesnt mean its not the right move for the team.

 

(edit)

 

Illini,

 

Well part of the reason you aim even further out with the Cavs is that James is 32. in 2022 hell be 37 so who knows if he is even an elite player at that point.

 

Not saying these are the best packages Bulls will get, but if given a package of #3, and 2 mid first rounders vs. 3 Cavs first round picks from 2020 and beyond, you'd pick the first package. The latter offer is too far out and comes with a lot of unknowns. If any GM is planning for a 7 year rebuild, they should fired.

[Chisoxfn]

"multiple other 1st rounders" are worthless if they're the Celts own picks. The lakers/kings pick is a gamble. That's not enough.

They also own the Nets pick. That is a lot of high caliber picks...plus Jaylen Brown (who is a pretty valuable asset.). Lakers/Kings is getting you a high pick....Nets is getting you a high pick...Jaylen Brown is a year removed from being a high pick...and you get other future picks / players.

[Chisoxfn]

Celtics arent worth dealing with right now. If they wont even give up #3 there is just no point even discussing.

 

If they are really going to move Butler, I think the best idea is something really outside of the box like trading for Cleveland's picks in 2020/beyond. The Bulls then will suck hardcore for the next 2-3 years and then by that time Cavs will likely suck too, so youd be looking pretty good in 5 years.

What is Boston offering? Jaylen Brown plus one of the valuable picks they have next year?

[Chisoxfn]

A lot of teams really want him. I do think Cleveland at least rumored to be in on Jimmy, could change Ainge's mind. That is the one place he probably doesn't want him to go, but say they did get pick 3. Jackson is supposedly the guy they covet, but what if Magic took him at 2?

 

Would Lonzo Ball be a no brainer? He does have questions. Obviously #1 would be his idiot father who probably wouldn't be too thrilled he was in Chicago. The other is his shot, it seems to go in but it might be a little tougher with bigger stronger more athletic guys guarding him. And I watched something yesterday where depending how you look at it, this is either the way the game is going, or a red flag. Supposedly he had only 7 field goals last year that weren't lay ups or 3 pointers. It is going to be interesting to see how he pans out.

Lonzo would fit into what Fred wants to do (presumably).

[Soxbadger]

Not saying these are the best packages Bulls will get, but if given a package of #3, and 2 mid first rounders vs. 3 Cavs first round picks from 2020 and beyond, you'd pick the first package. The latter offer is too far out and comes with a lot of unknowns. If any GM is planning for a 7 year rebuild, they should fired.

 

The problem is supposedly Celtics said "no" to 3 straight up. Who knows if that is true, but I am trying to work in the framework of the rumors we are being told.

 

And 5-7 years to win a NBA Championship is being realistic.

 

Jordan was drafted in 1984, Bulls first Championship was 1991. Its hard to imagine scenarios given the current state of the NBA where the Bulls would be able to win a NBA Championship faster than 7 years from now.

[Jenksismyhero]

Lakers are trading Tim Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell to Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick Thursday, sources say.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) June 20, 2017

 

[Soxbadger]

What is Boston offering? Jaylen Brown plus one of the valuable picks they have next year?

 

No idea, someone posted here that the Celtics said no to Butler for 3 straight up. From the Celtics boards Ive looked at they want to do things like Zeller + Boston's pick or other garbage. Seems they believe they can get Butler for a mid/ late round 1st +.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Soxbadger

[jenksycat]

They also own the Nets pick. That is a lot of high caliber picks...plus Jaylen Brown (who is a pretty valuable asset.). Lakers/Kings is getting you a high pick....Nets is getting you a high pick...Jaylen Brown is a year removed from being a high pick...and you get other future picks / players.

 

I don't see the Celts giving up #3, Lakers/Kings pick, Nets pick, and Brown but I'd take it.

[Dick Allen]

DWade is taking the money.

[Jenksismyhero]

DWade is taking the money.

 

Least surprising news so far.

[Panerista]

Lakers are trading Tim Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell to Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick Thursday, sources say.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) June 20, 2017

Guaranteed they're taking Ball now

[Dick Allen]

Least surprising news so far.

Not surprising and I wouldn't blame him, but he was the one saying the top 5 reasons he came to the Bulls were Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, and Jimmy. That he didn't want a rebuild, and all the rest. So either this Jimmy trade talk is mostly BS and the Bulls planted it to get DWade to flee, where then they could totally sell getting rid of Jimmy and rebuilding even to the biggest holdouts, or he was BSing. I am going with him BSing because he still had time to see this out. But if he did wait, he wouldn't get anywhere near what the Bulls will be paying him.

[Soxfest]

DWade is taking the money.

Never a doubt