2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

[iamshack]

NBA rebuilds don't reward hitting the ground running. Some years there are only one or two stars and they usually go one or two. To tank is to do everything you can to get enough ping pong balls to land the number one or two pick. The problem is, get too good without getting that transcendent star and you lose the opportunity to break through the NBA hell barrier.

 

It sucks it has to be that way, but the game is the game.

You don't have to get assets that help you this year to get off on the right foot on a rebuild.

 

Maybe a (or some) future first round picks?

[Rowand44]

I mean, as a fan of the White Sox, you don't see the benefit of getting off on the right foot with a rebuild?

 

This was their only opportunity, and they seem to have completely blown it...

I really don't get the first line as comparing baseball trades/rebuilds to basketball ones is just a completely different thing.

 

And we have no idea if they f***ed this up. People wanted the world for Butler and most teams just weren't going to give that up. Boston reportedly wasn't going to trade the 3 pick or the Nets pick next year for him and it doesn't appear there were other teams out there willing to throw a kings ransom for him. They got a guy who has a chance to be really good in Lavine, Lauri despite this board not liking him has a chance to be a pretty good offensive NBA player and maybe they're awful enough this year where they get a top 5 pick next year and get a franchise player.

 

Obviously everything I just said could go the complete opposite way and that's the beauty of a rebuild. This franchise wasn't going anywhere with Butler so to me there's nothing to lose even though of course I would have liked to get more in a deal for him.

[ZoomSlowik]

7 was not an ideal pick. I know zoom hates him but Markanen at least has upside.

 

Had they kept the 16 maybe they can turn 7, 16 and something into Fox. But instead they have Dunn and are basically hoping that somehow last year was not indicative of his fulure performance.

 

Personally just bummed we couldn't turn Butler into fox.

I would have much rather had Smith or Monk. Unfortunately, the Bulls have like 40 s***ty guards, so they think they're set.

 

I just don't trust Markkanen to do anything but shoot 3's. No rim protection, lack of strength hurts him on both ends, not a lot of finishing in traffic.

 

I'm agnostic about Fox. His speed and ballhandling gives him some upside, but I think it's really hard to play guards that can't shoot at all in the current NBA environment. He also needs to bulk up quite a bit.

 

[Rowand44]

That really isn't the right way to look at it, is it?

 

It can absolutely hurt this franchise if they didn't make the trade count. It needed to be a HR. I'm happy the Bulls picked a lane too, one fans can get behind (the similarities to the Sox is scary) but unlike the Sox who had Sale, Eaton, Q, Robertson, ect. to start the process, but the Bulls had 1 piece of value. Just 1. They couldn't afford to screw it up.

 

It kinda looks like they did.

Not in my mind. We did this dance last year and it seemed like the best offer out there was the Minny one, same thing this year so I don't really see why it'd change next year. We could just keep on hanging onto him and staying around .500 for the next few years because we don't think we're getting full value for him which apparently isn't out there. That hurts this franchise a lot more in the long run in my mind than taking a chance on something like this.

 

 

[iamshack]

I really don't get the first line as comparing baseball trades/rebuilds to basketball ones is just a completely different thing.

 

And we have no idea if they f***ed this up. People wanted the world for Butler and most teams just weren't going to give that up. Boston reportedly wasn't going to trade the 3 pick or the Nets pick next year for him and it doesn't appear there were other teams out there willing to throw a kings ransom for him. They got a guy who has a chance to be really good in Lavine, Lauri despite this board not liking him has a chance to be a pretty good offensive NBA player and maybe they're awful enough this year where they get a top 5 pick next year and get a franchise player.

 

Obviously everything I just said could go the complete opposite way and that's the beauty of a rebuild. This franchise wasn't going anywhere with Butler so to me there's nothing to lose even though of course I would have liked to get more in a deal for him.

Hmm, seems like it's pretty simple to me, Row. This isn't the NFL. You trade what you have of value now for something that potentially has more value in the future. Otherwise, it's not worth doing.

 

You seem to be arguing that the fact they will now be worse than before is somehow value that can be attributable to this trade?

 

 

[Bananarchy]

You don't have to get assets that help you this year to get off on the right foot on a rebuild.

 

Maybe a (or some) future first round picks?

Future picks would be ideal. Problem is, after the way Boston destroyed the Nets for the foreseeable future, teams have been pretty guarded with their future picks.

[Soxbadger]

I would have much rather had Smith or Monk. Unfortunately, the Bulls have like 40 s***ty guards, so they think they're set.

 

I just don't trust Markkanen to do anything but shoot 3's. No rim protection, lack of strength hurts him on both ends, not a lot of finishing in traffic.

 

I'm agnostic about Fox. His speed and ballhandling gives him some upside, but I think it's really hard to play guards that can't shoot at all in the current NBA environment. He also needs to bulk up quite a bit.

 

I'd have preferred Smith too Markkamen but when they traded for lavine and Dunn you knew they couldn't take another guard.

 

Basically the extra guards in the trade forced the pick.

 

Worst part is Im not sure dunn goes top 10 if he was in this draft.

[Rowand44]

Hmm, seems like it's pretty simple to me, Row. This isn't the NFL. You trade what you have of value now for something that potentially has more value in the future. Otherwise, it's not worth doing.

 

You seem to be arguing that the fact they will now be worse than before is somehow value that can be attributable to this trade?

If we're going this simple with this then yes, this trade in my mind has the chance to make the Bulls better in the long term. Obviously I don't know if it will but I'm willing to take that chance when I know they weren't going anywhere pre trade.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Rowand44

[Rowand44]

I think what hurts the most is they somehow had to give up No.16 to get the trade done. That's like in the "Rebuild 101" handbook, don't trade 1st round picks when you're rebuilding. Acquire more picks.

This I completely agree with.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'd have preferred Smith too Markkamen but when they traded for lavine and Dunn you knew they couldn't take another guard.

 

Basically the extra guards in the trade forced the pick.

 

Worst part is Im not sure dunn goes top 10 if he was in this draft.

It's hard for me to comment on that because I was never a big Dunn fan. I wouldn't take him over Smith or Monk, but I'm just some douchebag watching a few of his college games and some YouTube clips while drinking imperial stouts.

 

[iamshack]

It's hard for me to comment on that because I was never a big Dunn fan. I wouldn't take him over Smith or Monk, but I'm just some douchebag watching a few of his college games and some YouTube clips while drinking imperial stouts.

At the very least you have solid taste in beer.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Are you implying we are going to go heavy in FA? Who is even worth going heavy in FA? Hayward is obviously good...but he isn't coming to Chicago.

 

This is wishful thinking, but sign Griffin or Hayward, and in 2018 after we let Wade and Rondo walk trade RoLo and we have only around $45 mil committed to Griffin, Lavine, Dunn, Markkanen and Portis. May be enough to draw two FA's in next years loaded class.

[ZoomSlowik]

At the very least you have solid taste in beer.

 

Don't get me started on beer.

 

My beer takes are much better than my NBA takes.

[Big Hurtin]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=3511194

 

 

[Soxbadger]

It's hard for me to comment on that because I was never a big Dunn fan. I wouldn't take him over Smith or Monk, but I'm just some douchebag watching a few of his college games and some YouTube clips while drinking imperial stouts.

 

Not sure that Bulls have done anything recently to make me believe they know more than a douchebag drinking beer.

 

Marrakannen is weak but he's 19. He can definitely hit the weight room and gtlet stronger. Also with the way the nba is going shooting is a premium.

 

It just feels like the rest of the package is from the Isle of misfit toys. Keeping bulls first and getting more future picks was worth more than dunn/levine imo

[iamshack]

And I know this doesn't matter much, but when you look at the deal and the situation as a whole, you have to say "This was an absolute no-brainer type deal for the T'Wolves"

 

That's not usually a situation where you want to be on the other side of that.

Which is why you tell them to go f*** themselves when they asked for the #16 pick.

 

You had to, at the very least, make them walk away from Jimmy Butler over that pick.

[Soxbadger]

Which is why you tell them to go f*** themselves when they asked for the #16 pick.

 

You had to, at the very least, make them walk away from Jimmy Butler over that pick..

 

I bet wolves did that with dunn. Bulls probably got scared.

[ZoomSlowik]

Not sure that Bulls have done anything recently to make me believe they know more than a douchebag drinking beer.

 

Marrakannen is weak but he's 19. He can definitely hit the weight room and gtlet stronger. Also with the way the nba is going shooting is a premium.

 

It just feels like the rest of the package is from the Isle of misfit toys. Keeping bulls first and getting more future picks was worth more than dunn/levine imo

As a role player on a team with some pieces already, Markkanen is okay. He'll space the floor and mostly stay out of the way. I really worry about his defense/rebounding though.

 

Also, I think your first priority in a rebuild should be to find your shot-creators. That's definitely not Markkanen. Fox/Smith/Monk do that more often. Isaac doesn't really create his shot either, but at least he could be an ELITE role player that can guard multiple spots and hit some 3's.

 

Admittedly, I think this draft is mostly about upside after Fultz and Ball (I really like the former, I voiced my concerns about the latter earlier).

 

[Steve9347]

https://twitter.com/travellegaines/status/878078236780937218

 

Read that. It's Jimmy's trainer.

 

Now notice where it was posted from - Paris. Jimmmy is there and saw the tweet before it was posted.

 

We are done for. No player will come to Chicago. Not that they wanted to before.

[ptatc]

https://twitter.com/travellegaines/status/878078236780937218

 

Read that. It's Jimmy's trainer.

 

Now notice where it was posted from - Paris. Jimmmy is there and saw the tweet before it was posted.

 

We are done for. No player will come to Chicago. Not that they wanted to before.

Why would this make a difference. Another article said his agent called him as soon as it happened at around 2am because they pretty much knew a trade was going to happen.

[ZoomSlowik]

Anyone got a guess for 38? Mine is Rabb. Decent talent, but no real place in the modern NBA.

[Bananarchy]

I don't get what the big deal is if you're butler or butler's useless trainer. He signed a contract with no movement protection. Players get traded.

 

I'm annoyed by a bad Bulls trade, but I don't believe in that level of loyalty to a guy who signed a contract.

[Soxbadger]

As a role player on a team with some pieces already, Markkanen is okay. He'll space the floor and mostly stay out of the way. I really worry about his defense/rebounding though.

 

Also, I think your first priority in a rebuild should be to find your shot-creators. That's definitely not Markkanen. Fox/Smith/Monk do that more often. Isaac doesn't really create his shot either, but at least he could be an ELITE role player that can guard multiple spots and hit some 3's.

 

Admittedly, I think this draft is mostly about upside after Fultz and Ball (I really like the former, I voiced my concerns about the latter earlier).

 

Here is how I see it. (Discounting the horrible trade)

 

Bulls need an entirely new team, almost all of their players are bench level or old.

 

Marrakannen at least has unique skills. If he develops he could be a starter on a high level team.

 

Monk reminds me of Ben gordon, but every year their will be guards who can score.

 

The real miss may have been smith. Would smith/ leaf be better than dunn/ marrakannen, I don't know.

 

But that's why losing the 1st hurts, it's a lost opportunity for a team that should be doing everything ro get more picks.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Here's my thoughts since everyone is going to disagree with me: I hated giving up the 16 pick and if we would have made this same deal last year we probably would have had a top 3 pick in this draft instead of possibly getting one next year. As is, I'm happy they picked a lane even though they didn't get full value for Jimmy. Trading him isn't going to hurt this franchise that was going no where with him anyway.

We haven't always agreed on the Bulls recently...but I can commend you for your consistency.

[iamshack]

Put me down for Jordan Bell