2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

[Kyyle23]

Gotta get Lopez and Portis out of here ASAP.

 

You know this is the Bulls, right? You know they are gonna fall in love with try hards and create their own new core, right?

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

You know this is the Bulls, right? You know they are gonna fall in love with try hards and create their own new core, right?

I don't know. I listened to Pax last night. He seems a bit worried about the winning. Although he did preface it by saying they are catching some teams at less than full strength.I think he is committed to the suck this year.

 

I do think they think with Dunn, Levine, and Laurie, with a high draft pick, they believe they have their winning core with a big time free agent. The free agent to me, is a pipe dream.

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

I don't mind Portis. Think he can be a serviceable big man off the bench. We have to get Lopez and Niko out of here.

 

I think Portis can fetch equal value due to his contract, but I don't think he has a lot of upside.

 

Meanwhile, Niko is pricier but he's better in basically every facet of the game and is talking like a team leader. Combine it with the fact that Hoiberg is experimenting with him at center in the new centerless NBA and I can see him being part of the "core".

 

Dunn

LaVine

Porter(?) - Nwaba

Lauri

Niko

 

Build from there, getting a true center to form a three man rotation.

[southsider2k5]

Cody Westerlund‏ @CodyWesterlund 12m12 minutes ago Bulls have waived Kay Felder.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

It's funny...if we weren't a year removed from blowing things up, I think fans would be legitimately excited about this Bulls team. I.e., if this were a team coming off the suck that was the post-Jordan era, we'd like at this roster a bit different. When I look at this roster, this is what I see:

 

100% Building Blocks:

Dunn - Love this kid. Plays D and he is becoming such a confident offensive player. He still needs to develop his jumper but he seems to be improving his creation skills and offensively he can get into the paint. 3 point shot has improved massively from a year ago. Will take time but he's got some real upside (even though he is a bit older...he was behind developmentally due to some injuries, etc). Dunn is a legit building block, imo. Will never be a great passer and he also needs to tighten his handles. But such a good athlete.

 

Lavine - Need to see how he is post-injury but pre-injury he was an ascening above avg player with upside

 

Lauri - It is early but he is a strong rebounder and has showed fantastic athleticism for a 7fter. Defense is quality. Both his defense and rebounding abilities are something I didn't expect and have been pleasantly surprised with. Offensively he gets a little lose with his dribble, but the fact that he can do those things is a major plus. Shot can be inconsistent but clearly he has range and ability to shoot. Post game is solid but room to grow. High upside potential, imo.

 

Not Sure:

Nikolai - His contract is a bargain based upon his current production; He is a good defender (unless you play him at the 3) who is long and can shoot the ball well. In the past, he was pretty much a one-trick pony offensively (3 ball) and this year he's emerged with a real low post and mid-range game. The added strength has really enabled him to leverage his athletic abilities (he's very athletic for his size) and those extra dimensions to his game make him difficult to evaluate. On one hand, you can trade him and aid the tank, however, on the other end, he isn't that old (26) and if his long-term performance is going to be closer to the version we are seeing right now, he's an above average starter and someone who would be an asset and part of our rebuilding core.

 

Bobby Portis - I'm not sure if Portis is a solid starter or a good bench player. His defense is not good...offensively he's not a bad scorer. Outside of the Niko incident, I'd say he is one of those hard-nosed guys you like having on the court though (always plays hard and with an edge).

 

Paul Zipser - Last year he emerged as a solid player who I thought was going to be at a minimum, a very good rotational bench player. He isn't playing as well this year and I think some of it is a lack of confidence (as his shot just hasn't been falling). Still, small sample size so who knows.

 

Solid Starter:

Robin Lopez - This guy is a rock. Such a solid and dependable guy. Legit starting center; Good...not great player. Really good guy to have around team as well. Never realized how solid of an offensive player he'd be.

 

Bench Player:

Denzel Valentine - Can't start, but he's improved a lot from last year. Good passer, inability to score / create his own shot, great 3 point shooter. Definitely has a place and he has taken real steps forward this year.

 

David Nwaba - Easily a good bench player; Might have some upside as a starter. Good defender and a great slasher. Jump shot is non-existent and I'm amazed teams aren't playing off him more (no one must scout that much these days); Will need to develop his jumper, however, if he did, he could emerge as a solid starter.

 

Doesn't Matter:

Justin Holliday - Volume shooter who is better suited for a bench role. Fits on most benches, doesn't start for many teams not named the Bulls.

 

Garbage:

Jerian Grant - Can't stand him; Can't run the point; Has some solid games but lots of weak games. Plays very hard though; Reality is he plays on most NBA teams (off the bench).

Felicio - Disaster; He got fat and out of shape and just sucks at this point;

 

Cap Space:

Massive amounts of cap space...who knows if we can do anything with it.

[Heads22]

I always thought Anthony Davis' destiny was to end up in Chicago.

[thxfrthmmrs]

It's funny...if we weren't a year removed from blowing things up, I think fans would be legitimately excited about this Bulls team. I.e., if this were a team coming off the suck that was the post-Jordan era, we'd like at this roster a bit different. When I look at this roster, this is what I see:

 

100% Building Blocks:

Dunn - Love this kid. Plays D and he is becoming such a confident offensive player. He still needs to develop his jumper but he seems to be improving his creation skills and offensively he can get into the paint. 3 point shot has improved massively from a year ago. Will take time but he's got some real upside (even though he is a bit older...he was behind developmentally due to some injuries, etc). Dunn is a legit building block, imo. Will never be a great passer and he also needs to tighten his handles. But such a good athlete.

 

Lavine - Need to see how he is post-injury but pre-injury he was an ascening above avg player with upside

 

Lauri - It is early but he is a strong rebounder and has showed fantastic athleticism for a 7fter. Defense is quality. Both his defense and rebounding abilities are something I didn't expect and have been pleasantly surprised with. Offensively he gets a little lose with his dribble, but the fact that he can do those things is a major plus. Shot can be inconsistent but clearly he has range and ability to shoot. Post game is solid but room to grow. High upside potential, imo.

 

Not Sure:

Nikolai - His contract is a bargain based upon his current production; He is a good defender (unless you play him at the 3) who is long and can shoot the ball well. In the past, he was pretty much a one-trick pony offensively (3 ball) and this year he's emerged with a real low post and mid-range game. The added strength has really enabled him to leverage his athletic abilities (he's very athletic for his size) and those extra dimensions to his game make him difficult to evaluate. On one hand, you can trade him and aid the tank, however, on the other end, he isn't that old (26) and if his long-term performance is going to be closer to the version we are seeing right now, he's an above average starter and someone who would be an asset and part of our rebuilding core.

 

Bobby Portis - I'm not sure if Portis is a solid starter or a good bench player. His defense is not good...offensively he's not a bad scorer. Outside of the Niko incident, I'd say he is one of those hard-nosed guys you like having on the court though (always plays hard and with an edge).

 

Paul Zipser - Last year he emerged as a solid player who I thought was going to be at a minimum, a very good rotational bench player. He isn't playing as well this year and I think some of it is a lack of confidence (as his shot just hasn't been falling). Still, small sample size so who knows.

 

Solid Starter:

Robin Lopez - This guy is a rock. Such a solid and dependable guy. Legit starting center; Good...not great player. Really good guy to have around team as well. Never realized how solid of an offensive player he'd be.

 

Bench Player:

Denzel Valentine - Can't start, but he's improved a lot from last year. Good passer, inability to score / create his own shot, great 3 point shooter. Definitely has a place and he has taken real steps forward this year.

 

David Nwaba - Easily a good bench player; Might have some upside as a starter. Good defender and a great slasher. Jump shot is non-existent and I'm amazed teams aren't playing off him more (no one must scout that much these days); Will need to develop his jumper, however, if he did, he could emerge as a solid starter.

 

Doesn't Matter:

Justin Holliday - Volume shooter who is better suited for a bench role. Fits on most benches, doesn't start for many teams not named the Bulls.

 

Garbage:

Jerian Grant - Can't stand him; Can't run the point; Has some solid games but lots of weak games. Plays very hard though; Reality is he plays on most NBA teams (off the bench).

Felicio - Disaster; He got fat and out of shape and just sucks at this point;

 

Cap Space:

Massive amounts of cap space...who knows if we can do anything with it.

 

An extension to your post is we have seen most of these guys take the next step and have gotten better this year with the additional playing time. Outside of maybe Felicio, all 10 of those guys would be rotation players for most other NBA teams, which is hurting our tanking plans right now. Unfortunately, maybe 1, or 2 if we're lucky, of these guys will develop into allstars, so we're just back in NBA hell right now, good enough for the 9th seed or maybe sneak into playoffs, but not bad enough to get a high lotto pick.

[Dick Allen]

This team was 3-20 6 games ago. Let's not get carried away, they suck, and have caught a few teams at the right time to beat them. Would anyone really be surprised if they lost the next 6? That said, they do need to trade Lopez, Niko, probably Portis ASAP. They need as good of a shot at Bagley as they can get.

[thxfrthmmrs]

They started the year out without Dunn, Portis and Niko, Nwaba also missed significant time. Dunn has since played back into form and is playing better than ever. Niko looks much improved. I mean seriously, how much better are these guys than Blakeny, Felder, Pondexter, or whoever that guy with the long name is? So I don't think it's hard to envision that they hanging around the 9th or 10th seed for the rest of the year.

[Chisoxfn]

This team was 3-20 6 games ago. Let's not get carried away, they suck, and have caught a few teams at the right time to beat them. Would anyone really be surprised if they lost the next 6? That said, they do need to trade Lopez, Niko, probably Portis ASAP. They need as good of a shot at Bagley as they can get.

Look at who was playing during that initial stretch. A lot of the guys contributing right now were hurt / not playing. Dunn had a stretch where he was injured, Nwaba was out for a while, Niko (obviously out), Portis (suspended). You had utter crap getting significant minutes and that has drastically shifted. I said it back then and I will continue to say it...this team is too good to be a bottom 3 team in the NBA (as currently constructed). In fact, if they were 100% healthy, I think they are a playoff team (I wouldn't have said that in the off-season but Lauri and Dunn are much better then I expected them to be at this stage of the season).

[Quin]

Trade Portis and Lopez ASAP. Can't wait until Jan. 15 to get the tank back on track.

 

Meanwhile, Niko for MVP.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Why is this happening?

[Jack Parkman]

Look at who was playing during that initial stretch. A lot of the guys contributing right now were hurt / not playing. Dunn had a stretch where he was injured, Nwaba was out for a while, Niko (obviously out), Portis (suspended). You had utter crap getting significant minutes and that has drastically shifted. I said it back then and I will continue to say it...this team is too good to be a bottom 3 team in the NBA (as currently constructed). In fact, if they were 100% healthy, I think they are a playoff team (I wouldn't have said that in the off-season but Lauri and Dunn are much better then I expected them to be at this stage of the season).

I agree with this. They are too good to be a bottom 3 team, and they probably are a fringe playoff team as currently constructed. The East sucks, so you have to wonder if ownership is counting money with regard to a couple potential playoff games.

[Dick Allen]

When the Bulls beat some halfway decent team at full strength, then I will worry they are too good, but Boston, no Kyrie, Philly, no Embid, Orlando had their 2 top scorers out.

[thxfrthmmrs]

When the Bulls beat some halfway decent team at full strength, then I will worry they are too good, but Boston, no Kyrie, Philly, no Embid, Orlando had their 2 top scorers out.

 

You're missing the point. I think most people expect or want the Bulls to finish with bottom 3 or worst record this year. The fact that they are beating middle of the road teams at full strength (minus LaVine, mind you) suggests they are a middle of the road team or better. That absolutely makes fans uneasy before a draft as top heavy as this one.

[Bananarchy]

Trade any non-Fin not named Dunn or Lavine.

[Quin]

Niko has Michael's secret stuff

[Chisoxfn]

The Cavs announcers were shocked at how good the Bulls team was. That was an exciting game last night. Team fell short but anyone who thinks this team is a bottom 5 team is crazy. Was nice to see Lauri have a big game.

[Steve9347]

The Cavs announcers were shocked at how good the Bulls team was. That was an exciting game last night. Team fell short but anyone who thinks this team is a bottom 5 team is crazy. Was nice to see Lauri have a big game.

Anyone excited about the Bulls doing anything other than losing right now doesn't understand the NBA well enough.

[Chisoxfn]

Anyone excited about the Bulls doing anything other than losing right now doesn't understand the NBA well enough.

Yep - Thats right. So many teams/franchises have become great from tanking. The great Sixers team still has injury issues and failed miserably for years (and for as "great" as they are...they are still going to need to land some key free agents to make them great...all that talent and they aren't even putting up that great of a record). I suppose you could just plan on sucking for 20 years until you got really really lucky and finally found a couple transcending players. I vehemently disagree with the notion of tanking. Winning championships is not easy in the NBA. Period. Winning them because you tanked hasn't proven some definitively better plan then trying to always build as good of a team as possible (but with a forward looking vision). You can very quickly turn your franchise into a heaping pile of s***. I actually have a brain though and can use my brain to have an opinion different from what is "trendy" in today's league.

 

I don't want to win because of guys who have no future driving wins, but if we win because Kris Dunn and Lauri and other people who can be part of the core keep winning...fine, I have faith in the Bulls front office at maximizing the value of its draft picks. Now I don't hae faith in them executing the free agent route and landing the star but for either path to succeed, we are going to need to win in free agency.

[Kyyle23]

Yep - Thats right. So many teams/franchises have become great from tanking. The great Sixers team still has injury issues and failed miserably for years (and for as "great" as they are...they are still going to need to land some key free agents to make them great...all that talent and they aren't even putting up that great of a record). I suppose you could just plan on sucking for 20 years until you got really really lucky and finally found a couple transcending players. I vehemently disagree with the notion of tanking. Winning championships is not easy in the NBA. Period. Winning them because you tanked hasn't proven some definitively better plan then trying to always build as good of a team as possible (but with a forward looking vision). You can very quickly turn your franchise into a heaping pile of s***. I actually have a brain though and can use my brain to have an opinion different from what is "trendy" in today's league.

 

I don't want to win because of guys who have no future driving wins, but if we win because Kris Dunn and Lauri and other people who can be part of the core keep winning...fine, I have faith in the Bulls front office at maximizing the value of its draft picks. Now I don't hae faith in them executing the free agent route and landing the star but for either path to succeed, we are going to need to win in free agency.

 

wat

[Chisoxfn]

wat

Anyone who says the Bulls front office can't draft is ignorant of every stat out there/article published evaluating drafts. Have they missed, sure, but they have consistently outperformed league peers when it comes to drafting. Lots of historical analysis has been included in past articles highlighting the strength of the Bulls drafting. People can throw out the occasional misses, but in general, they have drafted extremely well. People are just ignorant to how often most teams miss on draft picks.

 

This front office has problems...drafting has been something they have proven (over the long haul) to be very good at. People can rip on Gar/John all the want (and many things they deserve to be ripped for)...but drafting just isn't one of those things.

[Jerksticks]

wat

#garpax bro

[Kyyle23]

Anyone who says the Bulls front office can't draft is ignorant of every stat out there/article published evaluating drafts. Have they missed, sure, but they have consistently outperformed league peers when it comes to drafting. Lots of historical analysis has been included in past articles highlighting the strength of the Bulls drafting. People can throw out the occasional misses, but in general, they have drafted extremely well. People are just ignorant to how often most teams miss on draft picks.

 

This front office has problems...drafting has been something they have proven (over the long haul) to be very good at. People can rip on Gar/John all the want (and many things they deserve to be ripped for)...but drafting just isn't one of those things.

 

Look, Im not gonna argue with this fantasy of yours, but their drafting has been pretty much trash since Butler. So many absolutely wasted picks and trades.

[Jake]

The problem with evaluating a single team's draft picks in the NBA is that a huge proportion of all the players drafted in the first round are just totally s***ty and never contribute