2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

[Y2Jimmy0]

My issue is....wouldn't this dumpster fire of a return have been available at pretty much any point until the deadline in 2019?

 

 

No. It's not really a dumpster fire of a return either. It's just not what fans were expecting. This is the return I was expecting. I said in my mock draft blog post yesterday that Butler would go to Minny for LaVine, Dunn, and #7. That was always most realistic package. Giving up #16 with him didn't make any sense though. I think his value would have continued to decrease and there was no reason to wait any longer. What would be the point? This was the best deal and they took it. It's not a great package but it's not really about the return. It's about what trading Butler signifies. They've identified that what they were doing didn't make any sense and they are going young. Now they just need to be really bad. They were never going to pay Jimmy Butler $200+ million to play in his early thirties. It just didn't make sense. Trading #16 and dumping a 2nd is really f***ing annoying but I'm so glad that they chose to go this direction.

[fathom]

Wow did Paxson come across bad during his ESPN1000 interview

[jenksycat]

No. It's not really a dumpster fire of a return either. It's just not what fans were expecting. This is the return I was expecting. I said in my mock draft blog post yesterday that Butler would go to Minny for LaVine, Dunn, and #7. That was always most realistic package. Giving up #16 with him didn't make any sense though. I think his value would have continued to decrease and there was no reason to wait any longer. What would be the point? This was the best deal and they took it. It's not a great package but it's not really about the return. It's about what trading Butler signifies. They've identified that what they were doing didn't make any sense and they are going young. Now they just need to be really bad. They were never going to pay Jimmy Butler $200+ million to play in his early thirties. It just didn't make sense. Trading #16 and dumping a 2nd is really f***ing annoying but I'm so glad that they chose to go this direction.

 

I disagree on the value. What's the worst case if they waited? We don't get Levine and his bionic knee? My guess is they couldn't decide what to do and panicked last minute and took the 'best' of the s***ty offers when they should have just waited it out. There's nothing they got in return that's going to change the face of this franchise so there was no point in not just waiting it out for the year.

 

I agree on picking a lane finally, much like the white sox. But selling a 2nd round pick & this bonehead front office signals they don't have a clue and ensures a garbage franchise for another 5-10 years minimum.

[Chisoxfn]

I certainly get the impression that this all came together pretty last minute and I am curious how much homework we even did on who we selected, etc. I wonder how much we even looked at Dunn based upon what happened this past season (vs. our pre-draft assessment from a year ago). That said, very clear that now that they have a direction...strategy will be set.

 

Also interesting that the trading of the 2nd round pick was an "ownership" thing. Seems odd to state that.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm sure its been brought so I apologize, but what is the Bulls cap situation the next few years? They can't free up max money for a Hayward or Gallinari right?

 

Just for pure entertainment reasons, do the Bulls have cap for Gallinari or Gordon. Gallinari in particular would make this a pretty exciting team.

 

 

 

[iamshack]

Wow did Paxson come across bad during his ESPN1000 interview

Holy s***. What a f***ing dick.

[Kyyle23]

Holy s***. What a f***ing dick.

 

Pax doesn't like being questioned. I believe that is part of the reason he took the president job, so he wouldn't have to do GM press conferences anymore

[Chisoxfn]

I'm sure its been brought so I apologize, but what is the Bulls cap situation the next few years? They can't free up max money for a Hayward or Gallinari right?

 

Just for pure entertainment reasons, do the Bulls have cap for Gallinari or Gordon. Gallinari in particular would make this a pretty exciting team.

I believe they are $26M under the cap if they denounce the rights to Niko. So yes, they would have enough to offer Hayward. Next year they'll be in an even better spot, albeit...they will have to extend Levine.

[iamshack]

Pax doesn't like being questioned. I believe that is part of the reason he took the president job, so he wouldn't have to do GM press conferences anymore

Yeah, that was obvious.

 

I get it, he's on the front lines and it isn't easy to run an organization at the highest levels. He doesn't have the luxury that a lot of the media and fans do of saying different s*** every week and having no one really call you on it.

 

But s***...the fans are who pay the bills, John. As painful as it may be to have to deal with the media and the fans, it's part of the gig.

 

Take a few listens to Rick Hahn's pressers, pal.

[Chicago White Sox]

I disagree on the value. What's the worst case if they waited? We don't get Levine and his bionic knee? My guess is they couldn't decide what to do and panicked last minute and took the 'best' of the s***ty offers when they should have just waited it out. There's nothing they got in return that's going to change the face of this franchise so there was no point in not just waiting it out for the year.

 

I agree on picking a lane finally, much like the white sox. But selling a 2nd round pick & this bonehead front office signals they don't have a clue and ensures a garbage franchise for another 5-10 years minimum.

If they waited they wouldn't of had a chance at a top pick next year. You can't just view this trade in isolation. Next year's draft position is an important part of the equation. Selling now was the right move IMO, I just question why in the world they gave up #16 in the process. I seriously doubt Thibs passes on Jimmy f***ing Butler because of a mid round draft pick. I think GarPax simply panicked and/or were too infatuated with Dunn to push harder.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I certainly get the impression that this all came together pretty last minute and I am curious how much homework we even did on who we selected, etc. I wonder how much we even looked at Dunn based upon what happened this past season (vs. our pre-draft assessment from a year ago). That said, very clear that now that they have a direction...strategy will be set.

 

Also interesting that the trading of the 2nd round pick was an "ownership" thing. Seems odd to state that.

 

 

Jason Goff said on radio today that deal was done at 2PM. Also got deep into talks with Phoenix but Suns balked at including #4 once it appeared Jackson would be available. Denver refused to include Jamal Murray. Goff also said they wanted Jonathan Isaac but thought Markkanen was clear BPA.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I disagree on the value. What's the worst case if they waited? We don't get Levine and his bionic knee? My guess is they couldn't decide what to do and panicked last minute and took the 'best' of the s***ty offers when they should have just waited it out. There's nothing they got in return that's going to change the face of this franchise so there was no point in not just waiting it out for the year.

 

I agree on picking a lane finally, much like the white sox. But selling a 2nd round pick & this bonehead front office signals they don't have a clue and ensures a garbage franchise for another 5-10 years minimum.

 

 

Waiting didn't make any sense. The offer wouldn't have been better at deadline or next year. Another huge part of this was adding #7 pick and now they will be bad enough to pick top 5 next year. They likely wouldn't have that option if they wait. I loved Dunn at Providence and Lavine was shooting 40% from 3 and averaging almost 19 PPG as a 22 year old. I think they got enough back. I would have been much happier had they used #16 on like Harry Giles and took someone at #38 though. Those are my gripes.

[southsider2k5]

Holy s***. What a f***ing dick.

 

He got pissed about the 2nd rd pick question. What did he expect?

[iamshack]

He got pissed about the 2nd rd pick question. What did he expect?

He got pissed at basically every question they asked, even "How are you today, Pax?"

 

When Kyle says Paxson doesn't like being questioned, it's like a literal statement. He actually didn't seem to like being asked questions.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I'm sure its been brought so I apologize, but what is the Bulls cap situation the next few years? They can't free up max money for a Hayward or Gallinari right?

 

Just for pure entertainment reasons, do the Bulls have cap for Gallinari or Gordon. Gallinari in particular would make this a pretty exciting team.

 

Rondo and Canaan will almost certainly be waived by 6/30, They will likely renounce rights to Niko and MCW as well, which would bring them to around $38M under cap once Markkanen signs.

 

[Dick Allen]

Rondo and Canaan will almost certainly be waived by 6/30, They will likely renounce rights to Niko and MCW as well, which would bring them to around $38M under cap once Markkanen signs.

Niko will be back.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Niko will be back.

 

I don't mind seeing it as long as it's just a QO, not a new contract. With him and Markkanen on the court at the same time, it should give Lavine and Wade plenty of spacing to work with.

[Quin]

I think Zach Lowe's take is the best on this.

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/prese...icago-bulls-nba

 

Kinda was a s***ty move that they had to make because Rose's injury basically death spiraled the team, they've made dumb-ass moves (Payne), good ones (Portis, Mirotic no matter how frustrating they are) and ones that had logic (Pau, McDermott). Also that the Warriors intimidation factor helped drive Jimmy's price down.

 

Still annoying as hell that they traded the #38 when they lucked into Bell falling there. Also resurrected the group that thinks Bulls and Sox have the same finances as they then complained about Burger signing for roughly the same amount.

 

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

How fun would it be if the Bulls got their hands on Michael Porter Jr and signed Boogie/Embiid/Kanter next year?

 

PG- Dunn (Hope he develops)

SG- Lavine

SF- Porter

PF- Markkanen

C- Cousins/Embiid/Kanter

[Quin]

How fun would it be if the Bulls got their hands on Michael Porter Jr and signed Boogie/Embiid/Kanter next year?

 

PG- Dunn (Hope he develops)

SG- Lavine

SF- Porter

PF- Markkanen

C- Cousins/Embiid/Kanter

 

Be the luckiest they've been since 1.7%

[Brian]

Embiid so he can play only 40 games? Boogie or bust

[Jordan4life_2007]

How fun would it be if the Bulls got their hands on Michael Porter Jr and signed Boogie/Embiid/Kanter next year?

 

PG- Dunn (Hope he develops)

SG- Lavine

SF- Porter

PF- Markkanen

C- Cousins/Embiid/Kanter

 

Kanter? He makes Boozer look competent on defense. Also, and this is just my preference, I'd rather have one of Bamba/Ayton over Porter. At least for now. A lot can change between now and next draft, of course.

[Quin]

Kanter? He makes Boozer look competent on defense. Also, and this is just my preference, I'd rather have one of Bamba/Ayton over Porter. At least for now. A lot can change between now and next draft, of course.

 

Take Porter, because Bagley can be the next center

 

But seriously, bulls need to go all out on picks

[Quin]

The most awkward trades to ever go down, featuring incompetence and more.

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8ypt6vr

 

Bulls-Knicks: Kristaps Porzingis, Joakim Noah for Lauri, D-Wade, $4.3M trade exception (Butler) and a PG (in this case, Demetrius Jackson from Celtics from later deal).

 

Reasons why Bulls do it: Kristaps, duh. Noah becomes an albatross contract, but it is what it is. It'll be mad awkward bringing Jo back to this front office, but Jimmy is gone so maybe he becomes the locker room leader.

Reason why Knicks do it: Jackson's incompetence. Supposedly wants to use Kristaps to dump Noah, apparently loved Markkanen if he traded Kristaps. Wade becomes a massive expiring / star power for Knicks. They get a trade exception and a young point guard to trial run.

 

Bulls-Celtics: Zeller, D. Jackson + 2019 1st Round Pick (Grizzlies) or 2018 1st Round Pick (Celtics), and 2019 2nd Round Pick (Detroit) for Lopez, $8M trade exception (remaining Butler).

 

Reasons why Bulls do it: Getting picks, getting rid of a useful player.

Reasons why Celtics do it: Upgrade their center position, get a trade exception that could be used in a Hayward sign-and-trade (I think).

 

Bulls-Lakers: Luol Deng for Rajon Rondo, 2019 Lakers 1st round pick.

Reasons why Bulls do it: Getting a pick

Reasons why Lakers do it: Getting out of Deng's albatross and they can decline Rondo's option, making signing future FAs (George, LeBron, etc.) a more distinct possibility.

 

Overall Bulls in: Kristaps, Noah, Deng, Zeller, 2019 1st (Grizz) or 2018 1st (Celtics), 2019 2nd (Pistons), 2019 1st (Lakers), worse overall

Overall Bulls out: Lauri, Wade, Lopez, Rondo, trade exceptions

 

2018 Tank Line

 

PG: Grant/Dunn/Payne

SG: LaVine/Valentine/Canaan

SF: Deng/Zipser

PF: Kristaps/Portis

C : Felicio/Zeller/Noah

 

Either let Niko walk or sign-and-trade him for whatever you can get.

 

You'll be in cap hell for the next three seasons, but pray that you get one of Porter, Bamba, Ayton or Doncic next year and Bagley or Williamson the following. Bust your ass convincing Kristaps you have a plan (firing Gar helps) and hope that Grant, Dunn, LaVine, Valentine, Zipser, Portis and Felicio show growth.

 

 

[bmags]

Bulls doing something creative like using cap space for picks is something I wouldn't bet on. But, phil's stupiditiy aside, the package he was asking for Porzingis was legitimate. I don't think they are giving him away. He's not Gar Forman.