2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

[Brian]

I find the move by Houston pretty odd. Paul + Blake + Jordan and a decent player Reddick couldn't come close to beating the Warriors. Houston has what, Paul + Harden + ???? They could re-sign Nene I guess, or try for Melo or George, but that's still not a great roster. Paul gets murdered by Curry when they play.

 

I don't get this move by them.

 

New NBA rule takes place next year where a team on offense can play with multiple balls.

[Chisoxfn]

I find the move by Houston pretty odd. Paul + Blake + Jordan and a decent player Reddick couldn't come close to beating the Warriors. Houston has what, Paul + Harden + ???? They could re-sign Nene I guess, or try for Melo or George, but that's still not a great roster. Paul gets murdered by Curry when they play.

 

I don't get this move by them.

I think for those that have the view of its either win a championship or blow things up...then sure, you don't like the move cause I don't think they win the championship. That said, does this move make Houston a better team...yes, it does. Everyone gets so enamored with if we can't win a title we should just blow everything up...but reality is, no one ever knows what happens and most of the recent teams that won championships never had that "bottom out" to win moment (with exception of Cleveland which obviously got LBJ the first time...the second time they did suck, but it was really him going home via free agency which changed the direction of the club).

 

San Antonio could have been blown up a few times in between their championship runs and the Lakers won a couple titles after Shaq left (and during a window where a lot of people wanted to "blow" the Lakers up). I don't know Houston's cap position but I presume they are going to try and outscore the world in D'Antoni's system and will see if they can attract another piece in a year (not sure cap space so maybe that isn't feasible). They also made no LT commitment to CP3.

[bmags]

Been burned hard by it before but theoretically chris paul in a D'antoni offense should be a lot of fun.

[shipps]

I think for those that have the view of its either win a championship or blow things up...then sure, you don't like the move cause I don't think they win the championship. That said, does this move make Houston a better team...yes, it does. Everyone gets so enamored with if we can't win a title we should just blow everything up...but reality is, no one ever knows what happens and most of the recent teams that won championships never had that "bottom out" to win moment (with exception of Cleveland which obviously got LBJ the first time...the second time they did suck, but it was really him going home via free agency which changed the direction of the club).

 

San Antonio could have been blown up a few times in between their championship runs and the Lakers won a couple titles after Shaq left (and during a window where a lot of people wanted to "blow" the Lakers up). I don't know Houston's cap position but I presume they are going to try and outscore the world in D'Antoni's system and will see if they can attract another piece in a year (not sure cap space so maybe that isn't feasible). They also made no LT commitment to CP3.

 

Didnt it take people quite a while to envision the Warriors as a legit championship contender? I think you are right and the dark place in the back of my mind had that thought before we traded Jimmy thinking you never know what pieces you can add along the way and gradually mold something that is legitimate.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Rockets are one of the most underrated franchises in sports and Daryl Morey is one of the most underrated GMs in sports. Yeah, they haven't won it since '95 but man they are not afraid of making a splash and somehow always get guys you don't think they can. Whether it's Charles Barkley to team with Hakeem and Drexler, T-mac in his prime, James Harden for nothing and now an elite PG for role players and a draft pick.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Jordan4life

[Dick Allen]

The Rockets are one of the most underrated franchises in sports and Daryl Morey is one of the most underrated GMs in sports. Yeah, they haven't won it since '95 but man they are not afraid of making a splash and somehow always get guys you don't think they can. Whether it's Charles Barkley to team with Hakeem and Drexler, T-mac in his prime, James Harden for nothing and now an elite PG for role players and a draft pick.

They made the conference finals once and the semifinals twice, and either DNQ or lost in the first round of the playoffs ever other year since 1999. Why if the Bulls do that, they actually did exactly the same thing only they made the semis one more time, they are turrible, but the Rockets GM is underrated?

 

Houston is the MJ-less Bulls of the west.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

They made the conference finals once and the semifinals twice, and either DNQ or lost in the first round of the playoffs ever other year since 1999. Why if the Bulls do that, they are turrible, but the Rockets GM is underrated?

 

I acknowledged they haven't won since 1995. But it's not from lack of incompetence or creativity. They've acquired superstars over the years without having to be in the lottery. The Bulls have acquired guys like Ben Wallace and Carlos Boozer.

[Kyyle23]

I acknowledged they haven't won since 1995. But it's not from lack of incompetence or creativity. They've acquired superstars over the years without having to be in the lottery. The Bulls have acquired guys like Ben Wallace and Carlos Boozer.

 

If they took a different route and ended up on the same position as the Bulls, it's hard to give them massive props for being underrated just because they acquired stars. They still haven't been able to do jack s***

 

And by no means am I endorsing the Bulls Front Office

[SoxAce]

Whether it's Charles Barkley to team with Hakeem and Drexler, T-mac in his prime, James Harden for nothing and now an elite PG for role players and a draft pick.

 

Haha, those 3 were way out of their prime. Otherwise, it's a valid point.

Edited June 28, 2017 by SoxAce

[Dick Allen]

I acknowledged they haven't won since 1995. But it's not from lack of incompetence or creativity. They've acquired superstars over the years without having to be in the lottery. The Bulls have acquired guys like Ben Wallace and Carlos Boozer.

$20 million a year for Ryan Anderson and his 13.5 PER. Nice. Dwight Howard and his Patrick Ewing moves. Great. That's creative if it isn't a Chicago team. Chicago team it's stupidity.

[bmags]

Rockets org is very good. If they were in east they'd have been in conference finals every year since 2013.

[Dick Allen]

Rockets org is very good. If they were in east they'd have been in conference finals every year since 2013.

First round knockouts suggest they are a bit overrrated. Maybe they do better in the East, but they aren't in the East, and they are well aware of it before they make moves that basically put them in an upgraded version of NBA hell. Maybe Paul is the guy that finally changes that. He is 32 so he probably is about to start declining, but he can decline and still be a top of the line guy for a couple years I would think.

 

Harden had his best season handling the ball. Now you take him off the ball. It will be interesting, but when it comes playoff time, they still need some key Golden State injuries to have any chance at all.

[Steve9347]

No. And I didn't like the Butler deal at all. The Bulls at least got what they considered as upside. Very little upside acquired by the Clippers.

The Bulls had Butler, a 27 year old who admitted he wanted to stay with the team, under contract. The Clippers got pieces back from the team the 32 year old CP3 wanted to sign with.

 

The fact it's even a question is likely a problem. That said, it's not very close.

 

I still can't believe the Bulls added the 16th pick and sold a 2nd rounder, though.

[Dick Allen]

The Bulls had Butler, a 27 year old who admitted he wanted to stay with the team, under contract. The Clippers got pieces back from the team the 32 year old CP3 wanted to sign with.

 

The fact it's even a question is likely a problem. That said, it's not very close.

 

I still can't believe the Bulls added the 16th pick and sold a 2nd rounder, though.

I think it was Shack who posted there was very little chance the Bulls refusing to give up the 16th pick would have made the T Wolves walk away. I agree. Not that the 16th pick was going to be a solid piece moving forward, but if you are rebuilding, you might as well take as many flyers as you can get. The selling of the second round pick was shameful. They don't need the money and have profits locked in for years. If they would have just admitted it was a money grab, I personally think to pay off the Rondo payout, it would be one thing. But Gar's explanation was just Gar being Gar, thinking the rest of the world is stupid, yet he is the one that looks like he doesn't know the rules.

[bmags]

First round knockouts suggest they are a bit overrrated. Maybe they do better in the East, but they aren't in the East, and they are well aware of it before they make moves that basically put them in an upgraded version of NBA hell. Maybe Paul is the guy that finally changes that. He is 32 so he probably is about to start declining, but he can decline and still be a top of the line guy for a couple years I would think.

 

Harden had his best season handling the ball. Now you take him off the ball. It will be interesting, but when it comes playoff time, they still need some key Golden State injuries to have any chance at all.

 

They haven't had a losing record since 2005-2006 and despite that have been able to collect attractive assets with 2nd round picks and good free agent signings into better players. I can't really call issue with their strategy. I'm not going to call out a team for not tanking when they have evolved so much over time while still being able to win. Haha, idiots, you should have traded all your stars and been terrible for 5 years in the hopes you could either be a champion or the exact same place you are now with soem great players but not enough to supplant maybe the greatest collection of talent in 30 years.

[Dick Allen]

They haven't had a losing record since 2005-2006 and despite that have been able to collect attractive assets with 2nd round picks and good free agent signings into better players. I can't really call issue with their strategy. I'm not going to call out a team for not tanking when they have evolved so much over time while still being able to win. Haha, idiots, you should have traded all your stars and been terrible for 5 years in the hopes you could either be a champion or the exact same place you are now with soem great players but not enough to supplant maybe the greatest collection of talent in 30 years.

I'm not saying its wrong, but J4L loves them and he rips on the Bulls who had a very similar run. I will stick with they are the Bulls of the West. They have had some success, but let's not praise them for their past decade and not do the same with the Bulls. One difference I will give you is the Bulls lucked into Rose, the Rockets went out and got Harden.

 

The love of tanking has grown by epic proportions, not just in the NBA but all sports. There still is only one team that can win every year, and you can tank all you want, it doesn't guarantee anything, especially now with guys willing to move to create superteams. But especially in the NBA if you don't have stars, you can't win. You can tank and get Eddy Curry, and Marcus Fizer, and Tyson Chandler, but you still pretty much suck.

 

You have to get lucky and get a Lebron or MJ or be really bad forever. People can jack off all they want over the 76ers roster, but they were so bad for so long, and still, there is no guarantee.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

One thing that had held back bulls ownership that the rockets are undeniably better at is the Bulls did a very good job of drafting during the 00-10 decade, but they by and large managed those assets horribly. Whether it's trading JR Smith for nothing, letting korver go for an unused trade exception, trading luol deng for a bunch of largely unused assets.

 

When Bulls had an asset like pick scenarios or favorable cap players, they largely let it go to waste. No sense to flip it for future assets, just let it die.

 

If Morey was on the bulls, maybe we have same issues. But I also feel like he gets Carmelo.

[Jenksismyhero]

So the Cavs had a deal in place to trade Kyrie to the Suns for Bledsoe and the 4th pick, and then they were going to trade the 4th pick for George. All of that was in place but the Cavs wanted a long term commitment from Lebron and they couldn't get one.

 

Sounds like Lebron is as good as gone after next season.

Edited June 29, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[southsider2k5]

So the Cavs had a deal in place to trade Kyrie to the Suns for Bledsoe and the 4th pick, and then they were going to trade the 4th pick for George. All of that was in place but the Cavs wanted a long term commitment from Lebron and they couldn't get one.

 

Sounds like Lebron is as good as gone after next season.

 

Knowing him, he is going to Golden State.

[southsider2k5]

I mean...

 

Frank Isola‏Verified account @FisolaNYDN 2h2 hours ago

 

One person close to the Knicks described Isiah Thomas as a "dark horse candidate" to become Knicks president.

 

[Chisoxfn]

The Bulls had Butler, a 27 year old who admitted he wanted to stay with the team, under contract. The Clippers got pieces back from the team the 32 year old CP3 wanted to sign with.

 

The fact it's even a question is likely a problem. That said, it's not very close.

 

I still can't believe the Bulls added the 16th pick and sold a 2nd rounder, though.

I will say right now...I would have rather kept Butler and traded for CP3...then taken a run at LBJ next off-season. Probably a pipe dream, but It would have been my strategy. That said, I didn't expect Chris Paul to be that much in play.

[Chisoxfn]

They haven't had a losing record since 2005-2006 and despite that have been able to collect attractive assets with 2nd round picks and good free agent signings into better players. I can't really call issue with their strategy. I'm not going to call out a team for not tanking when they have evolved so much over time while still being able to win. Haha, idiots, you should have traded all your stars and been terrible for 5 years in the hopes you could either be a champion or the exact same place you are now with soem great players but not enough to supplant maybe the greatest collection of talent in 30 years.

They aren't much different then the Bulls. Look...we can say Gar and Paxson aren't very good anymore, but there is no arguing that over the past 10-15 years, the Bulls have been at the very least a top 10 NBA team and a consistent playoff team (Rockets are in a similar boat). I laugh at everyone who says the Bulls have the worst front office in the league. Yes, they have had challenges in recent years and I think it is time for at least a fresh voice in the front office, but to imply that they are incompetent basketball people is terrible. Most of the GM's in this league wish they had the track record that Paxson has done. There have been various studies that look back at the value achieved in the draft and the Bulls essentially rank right below San Antonio in terms of pick adjusted value (i.e., lucking into Drose doesn't really factor into the "value" proposition). And on, Jimmy Butler didn't push them from the bottom to the top.

[Chisoxfn]

One intersting thing is...by waiting...Boston has positioned itself in a fantastic spot to get real value for Paul George (who is not as good of a player as Jimmy Butler). I still see the Lakers swooping in at some point and making a significant offer for George, because the entire Lakers plan takes a major back seat if they can't get George (since their plan is to get George and LBJ in a package deal). If George is traded to any of the teams rumored...he will sign.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I will say right now...I would have rather kept Butler and traded for CP3...then taken a run at LBJ next off-season. Probably a pipe dream, but It would have been my strategy. That said, I didn't expect Chris Paul to be that much in play.

 

 

Chris Paul wasn't coming to Chicago though. He's going to Houston for a year and then will be a free agent again. With LeBron.

[Y2Jimmy0]

One intersting thing is...by waiting...Boston has positioned itself in a fantastic spot to get real value for Paul George (who is not as good of a player as Jimmy Butler). I still see the Lakers swooping in at some point and making a significant offer for George, because the entire Lakers plan takes a major back seat if they can't get George (since their plan is to get George and LBJ in a package deal). If George is traded to any of the teams rumored...he will sign.

 

 

I don't think he will. He can make the same amount in LA next year that he could make in Cleveland or Boston. Why would he commit to staying anywhere when he wants to be in LA?