2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

[Dick Allen]

Just two games but man Lavine hasd a shot and he can flat out score. I really hope he stays healthy and can keep improving. Hell with what you all think, I think we got a darn nice core going right now. This team has been quite enjoyable to watch.

I was very skeptical, but I have to agree. Levine definitely seems like the real deal. He gets to the rim what appears to be effortlessly. Dunn's shooting is up and down, but everything else except the occassional turnover bug, seems exceptional. Lauri is obviously going to be a great player.

 

Some of these other guys seem to be decent bench pieces. I am not buying the Bulls attracting a top free agent, but if they could, I could see this team as being too good to call it NBA hell.

 

It's almost to a point where if they trade someone, it better help their draft position drastically, because if it is only slightly, a guy like Threekola nailing 3s, is pretty valuable, and could make you worse in the long run.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Dick Allen

[SoxAce]

Cleveland in particular is really in a bind. They have a good asset to trade in that Brooklyn pick but do they mortgage their future to make a run at it with LeBron or do they stay status quo and likely get embarrassed by GS and LeBron probably leaves? Not advocating he has that kind of value, but Mirotic (and Holiday in particular) would look really good with them right now. Then again, DeAndre Jordan would be the ideal get for them.

Edited January 16, 2018 by SoxAce

[Steve9347]

Bulls are locked into NBA hell for another decade. We needed a tank season or two.

[Chisoxfn]

I was very skeptical, but I have to agree. Levine definitely seems like the real deal. He gets to the rim what appears to be effortlessly. Dunn's shooting is up and down, but everything else except the occassional turnover bug, seems exceptional. Lauri is obviously going to be a great player.

 

Some of these other guys seem to be decent bench pieces. I am not buying the Bulls attracting a top free agent, but if they could, I could see this team as being too good to call it NBA hell.

 

It's almost to a point where if they trade someone, it better help their draft position drastically, because if it is only slightly, a guy like Threekola nailing 3s, is pretty valuable, and could make you worse in the long run.

You nailed where I stand exactly (on the trade and in-terms of watching). Dunn's growth shooting has been awesome...he's still inconsistent with that jumper but given how much improvement he's shown year-over-year there is so much to like. Will reserve things till I see more of Lavine but he reminds me a bit of Crawford in the sense that he can really score, but more aggressive in his ability to get in the paint (Crawford really was only a shooter but a damn good one). Defensively Lavine has the athleticism and size that he should be able to defend but he's got to put in a lot of work on that part of his game. The nice thing is Lauri and Dunn, two of are other core pieces are both fantastic.

 

My question is do you try to get a draft pick or do you try and get a free agent. I recognize those aren't directly tied and you could do both, but if you make a run at the playoffs this year, I think the chances of landing a big free agent increase (no guarantee though). If you don't make the playoffs, I think the reality is you are probably waiting another year to make your moves in free agency (and might have more competition at that time).

[Y2Jimmy0]

You nailed where I stand exactly (on the trade and in-terms of watching). Dunn's growth shooting has been awesome...he's still inconsistent with that jumper but given how much improvement he's shown year-over-year there is so much to like. Will reserve things till I see more of Lavine but he reminds me a bit of Crawford in the sense that he can really score, but more aggressive in his ability to get in the paint (Crawford really was only a shooter but a damn good one). Defensively Lavine has the athleticism and size that he should be able to defend but he's got to put in a lot of work on that part of his game. The nice thing is Lauri and Dunn, two of are other core pieces are both fantastic.

 

My question is do you try to get a draft pick or do you try and get a free agent. I recognize those aren't directly tied and you could do both, but if you make a run at the playoffs this year, I think the chances of landing a big free agent increase (no guarantee though). If you don't make the playoffs, I think the reality is you are probably waiting another year to make your moves in free agency (and might have more competition at that time).

 

 

I wrote this about Bulls situation today: https://theloopsports.com/2018/01/16/bulls-...ath-be-altered/

 

I think they'll trade whatever they can and try to pick as high as possible. They could play in free agency this offseason though. They are ahead of schedule. Lets say they snag Villanova SF Mikal Bridges in the draft and sign Cousins in the off-season. That's easily a top 3 seed in the East without LeBron.

[bmags]

The thing is with this core I can legit see a group as good as the Raptors in a year or two.

 

But if they can get in that top 5 and maintain development, I see the seams of a championship team (assuming development).

 

The thing with Mirotic is he is demanding a trade. He's cool now, but he has an end in sight. What if we remove that? what happens when team hits skids?

 

Justin Holliday should net a 2nd, RoLo can hopefully be used to clear space next year, and Mirotic hopefully gets us a 1st.

 

It pushes Felicio to bigger minutes and removes our most potent lineup of Markannen and Mirotic at 4 and 5.

 

I still think it's worth it to try.

[Chisoxfn]

I wrote this about Bulls situation today: https://theloopsports.com/2018/01/16/bulls-...ath-be-altered/

 

I think they'll trade whatever they can and try to pick as high as possible. They could play in free agency this offseason though. They are ahead of schedule. Lets say they snag Villanova SF Mikal Bridges in the draft and sign Cousins in the off-season. That's easily a top 3 seed in the East without LeBron.

I fully agree with your end state that if we get Cousins with the main core we could be top 3 seed as soon as next year (albeit I get nervous about the fact that Cousins hasn't won anywhere and losing can be toxic). Now here's a counter...what if they try to win now and make a run at the playoffs and then make a push at Cousins and George (not sure if we have the cap space or not). We really seem to have built a good culture with this current group (again kudos to Hoiberg and staff). I blasted him for a couple years but have to change my tune a lot this year.

 

And by trade whatever they can, who are you implying to move? I presume Lopez / Niko?

[Chisoxfn]

The thing is with this core I can legit see a group as good as the Raptors in a year or two.

 

But if they can get in that top 5 and maintain development, I see the seams of a championship team (assuming development).

 

The thing with Mirotic is he is demanding a trade. He's cool now, but he has an end in sight. What if we remove that? what happens when team hits skids?

 

Justin Holliday should net a 2nd, RoLo can hopefully be used to clear space next year, and Mirotic hopefully gets us a 1st.

 

It pushes Felicio to bigger minutes and removes our most potent lineup of Markannen and Mirotic at 4 and 5.

 

I still think it's worth it to try.

I've heard that Mirotic is demanding a trade if our intent is to tank / suck. He has made it known with management that he loves Chicago, wants to be here long-term, but only if our plan is to start winning and win soon (basically do you believe in what you've seen from us already or are you going to try and maximize the "tank"). If the answer is you want to maximize the tank, then definitely move me (and by the way that obviously helps facilitate the tank) because I don't want to play for a losing team. No one really wants to. People act like it is so easy to tank. On paper its a great idea, but between paper and reality a lot goes astray.

 

Maybe no one on this board has the in-depth feel for how bad it can get but being in LA, holy crap, what a disaster. I still go back and argue the case of, no team has yet to make the illustrative case that tanking was some genius concept that worked perfectly. Teams have sucked and gotten good but to intentionally tank is a different concept. Losing teams tend to suck for a long-time, which goes back to the notion, that you suck for a reason (i.e., a crappy front office and/or coaching staff that can't draft & develop or build a team).

[Chisoxfn]

The thing is with this core I can legit see a group as good as the Raptors in a year or two.

 

But if they can get in that top 5 and maintain development, I see the seams of a championship team (assuming development).

 

The thing with Mirotic is he is demanding a trade. He's cool now, but he has an end in sight. What if we remove that? what happens when team hits skids?

 

Justin Holliday should net a 2nd, RoLo can hopefully be used to clear space next year, and Mirotic hopefully gets us a 1st.

 

It pushes Felicio to bigger minutes and removes our most potent lineup of Markannen and Mirotic at 4 and 5.

 

I still think it's worth it to try.

My dream scenario is we move Niko, Felicio, and a future 1st to the Cavs for their 1st round pick because Lebron demanded it. Haha.

[Chisoxfn]

I hadn't seen this, but I thought the quotes from denze valentine a few weeks back were somewhat intriguing as it relates to Niko. Gives more to the addage that he rubs people the wrong way (or at least some). Certainly seems like he's moved by the end of the week.

 

‘‘We’re not going to let the things he says ruin the team, ruin the team mood or whatever,’’ guard Denzel Valentine said. ‘‘That’s how he feels. He’s a competitor. We can’t take it as he means that derogatory to anybody.

 

‘‘Of course, he wants to come in and contribute because that’s what he does. So if he feels like he didn’t get the chance to contribute [against the Knicks], then he’s going to speak his mind. That’s the type of person Niko is.’’

 

The Bulls are willing to deal with it for now, especially because they are 10-2 since Mirotic returned to the lineup.

 

Asked whether Mirotic is more confident — even cocky — this season than he was in the past, Valentine said, ‘‘Yeah,’’ without hesitation.

 

 

from this article:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/is-niko...-the-wrong-way/

[Y2Jimmy0]

I fully agree with your end state that if we get Cousins with the main core we could be top 3 seed as soon as next year (albeit I get nervous about the fact that Cousins hasn't won anywhere and losing can be toxic). Now here's a counter...what if they try to win now and make a run at the playoffs and then make a push at Cousins and George (not sure if we have the cap space or not). We really seem to have built a good culture with this current group (again kudos to Hoiberg and staff). I blasted him for a couple years but have to change my tune a lot this year.

 

And by trade whatever they can, who are you implying to move? I presume Lopez / Niko?

 

 

Trade whatever they can meaning Niko, Lopez, Holiday. I have no interest in making the playoffs this year. It doesn't help anything. I'd rather have the miniscule chance at landing a top 3 pick in the lottery than making the playoffs.

[Chisoxfn]

Thought this article was interesting (maybe because it is pretty consistent with a notion I've argued for a long time around tanking). I like that Curry @ 7 set-up the Warriors and can only hope we say the same thing about Lauri @ 7 with the Bulls

 

Edit: Article would help https://www.fanragsports.com/a-brief-study-...nba-rebuilding/

[Balta1701]

I fully agree with your end state that if we get Cousins with the main core we could be top 3 seed as soon as next year (albeit I get nervous about the fact that Cousins hasn't won anywhere and losing can be toxic). Now here's a counter...what if they try to win now and make a run at the playoffs and then make a push at Cousins and George (not sure if we have the cap space or not). We really seem to have built a good culture with this current group (again kudos to Hoiberg and staff). I blasted him for a couple years but have to change my tune a lot this year.

 

And by trade whatever they can, who are you implying to move? I presume Lopez / Niko?

The Bulls have the cap space for 1 of those guys, not both, but they can get to that level if they could move Mirotic and Lopez without taking on money beyond the value of the draft holds.

[Chisoxfn]

Lauri is putting up a 22 PER through 8 games in January. f***ing amazing. Seriously J4L...I'm glad you haven't jinxed him and called him a generational talent yet, but he is as much of a generational talent as Porzinkis was at this point in their career arc.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

And in case people didn't know, and I recognize he doesn't play defense, but Bobby Portis is putting up a 20.92 PER (yes it is against other bench players but still worth mentioning). Averaging 12ppg and 6 rpg in 20 minutes is pretty impressive.

[thxfrthmmrs]

To think one top FA would sign with this franchise and deal with this FO is iffy, let alone 2 near max players. I think it's important for us to stockpile as many future 1st as we can, and use the picks to trade for big names when the time comes.

[bmags]

The thing that would be so nice about a draft pick in the top 5 is being able to go after a guy like Capela with the space, a young, nice center that can spell our smaller lineups when we face teams with real centers.

 

Not a game changing signing, but would make us a better team with a young core to grow together for a while and been on a winning team.

[Balta1701]

Lauri is putting up a 22 PER through 8 games in January. f***ing amazing. Seriously J4L...I'm glad you haven't jinxed him and called him a generational talent yet, but he is as much of a generational talent as Porzinkis was at this point in their career arc.

Apparently he's the fastest ever to 100 made 3 pointers.

[southsider2k5]

So do the "LeBron to the Bulls" rumors pick up in the off-season?

 

Dunn-LaVine-LeBron-Markkenen-Random Center?

 

That doesn't even sound like close to enough.

[Balta1701]

So do the "LeBron to the Bulls" rumors pick up in the off-season?

 

Dunn-LaVine-LeBron-Markkenen-Random Center?

My guess is it all depends on whether or not people are spooked by the Lakers looking like a mess. They've clearly got the money for 2 max deals, if Lebron and George want to play there they will be able to play there. If they don't want to deal with that, then all of a sudden the Bulls have as good of a shot as anyone other than maybe Cleveland.

[Heads22]

I've always thought AD's destiny was to return to Chicago

[Jordan4life_2007]

Lauri is putting up a 22 PER through 8 games in January. f***ing amazing. Seriously J4L...I'm glad you haven't jinxed him and called him a generational talent yet, but he is as much of a generational talent as Porzinkis was at this point in their career arc.

 

I liked him from jump. From college to that euro tournament or whatever you call it before the season started. His skillset is tailor-made for modern nba basketball. And I wasn't wrong on KP. When healthy, he's a two-way terror. But he's dinged up a lot. And his stamina isn't the greatest at times. But his skills at that size? Yes. Generational.

[caulfield12]

I liked him from jump. From college to that euro tournament or whatever you call it before the season started. His skillset is tailor-made for modern nba basketball. And I wasn't wrong on KP. When healthy, he's a two-way terror. But he's dinged up a lot. And his stamina isn't the greatest at times. But his skills at that size? Yes. Generational.

 

So what's your reading on Doncic, then?

[Jordan4life_2007]

So what's your reading on Doncic, then?

 

I like him a lot. Incredibly advanced for his age. I just wouldn't take him at all over Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, Young and a healthy MPJ. He's got skills. No doubt. But the lack of elite or + athleticism and, imo, limited defensive potential will cap his ceiling.

[bmags]

Yeah a really good defensive center doesn’t really do it for me to change a franchise. I’d go Doncic all day over bamba.