BlackSox13 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) They're looking to find a bat they can plug in long term. Whether Avi counts as a big bat or long term idk but I do know they're looking to deal for someone like that. I hear it every day on the radio down here from our good friend Chris Rongey. I hope they do trade for Avi but Bader and O'Neill give them potential long term solutions that are younger, cheaper, under longer control and both are showing their power this year. If the Cards really believe they can compete for a WC spot, then Avi makes sense so I guess it comes down to how the cards feel about their chances this year. If I were the cards, I'd hold my prospects and shoot for '18 but that's only because I don't think they can get a WC spot this year. The Brewers threw a kink in that plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 02:41 PM) I hope they do trade for Avi but Bader and O'Neill give them potential long term solutions that are younger, cheaper, under longer control and both are showing their power this year. If the Cards really believe they can compete for a WC spot, then Avi makes sense so I guess it comes down to how the cards feel about their chances this year. If I were the cards, I'd hold my prospects and shoot for '18 but that's only because I don't think they can get a WC spot this year. The Brewers threw a kink in that plan. I don't disagree with any of this. They're at a bit of a crossroads as a franchise right now where they're not really sure what the hell they should be doing. Because of that it'll definitely be interesting to see what route they take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 They're a team that probably should've taken a step back and re-built, but they've gotten expensive trying to augment the roster and retain what they've got. I think they've either got to really commit and take a hit on prospects or sell hard. They're a bit like the Tigers where they can't do a full tear down because they're too expensive. Better farm system but stuck with some contracts that will be tough to move (Yadi, Fowler, Carpenter, some of the pitchers). Contracts themselves aren't that bad but not much surplus value. The problem they also have is their farm strengths are kinda blocked. Reyes will be great but the rotation isn't the problem. Kelly looks awesome but Yadi isn't going anywhere. And they've got an OF logjam. Which I why I think they'll sell out and get a bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 02:52 PM) I don't disagree with any of this. They're at a bit of a crossroads as a franchise right now where they're not really sure what the hell they should be doing. Because of that it'll definitely be interesting to see what route they take. Yeah, should be interesting. I hope they pull a 2015 White Sox move and go on a nice little win streak as the deadline approaches to fool their FO into thinking they are contenders. Buy buy buy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Saw someone suggest getting O'Neill could be a prelude to bigger deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 04:25 PM) Yeah, should be interesting. I hope they pull a 2015 White Sox move and go on a nice little win streak as the deadline approaches to fool their FO into thinking they are contenders. Buy buy buy!!! Melky and Avi for Grichuk and Piscotty , or are they too old at 25 and 26 ? They are having down years . Or Just Piscotty and Carson Kelly or throw Swarzak in to sweeten it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 01:14 PM) Wouldn't put it past them. If they really believe in Avisail Garcia, then it's not a bad thing. He's not a rental by any stretch. Exactly. I do think a package of Avi and Swarzak makes sense but not sure how much interest there is in Avi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 05:25 PM) Yeah, should be interesting. I hope they pull a 2015 White Sox move and go on a nice little win streak as the deadline approaches to fool their FO into thinking they are contenders. Buy buy buy!!! Teams in the NL Central are getting hot and the Brewers cold. So they are all bunched up and hoping to win the division. Time to start a bidding war amongst those teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 10:59 AM) Melky and Avi for Grichuk and Piscotty , are they too old at 25 and 26 ? They are having down years . Or Just Piscotty and Carson Kelly or throw Swarzak in to sweeten it. 26 is the new 30! I'd prefer to snag one of O'Neill/Bader/Perez along with one of Weaver/Flaherty/Hudson but that's probably not reasonable for 3 months of Swarzak ( free agent ) and 4 months of much improved baseball from Avi. Just don't think teams will offer much value for a guy that has just seemingly pulled it together this year. Hopefully some teams' scouts are impressed with his changes and offer something decent. If not, Avi is more than welcome to hang around the south side for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Melky and Avi for Grichuk and Piscotty , or are they too old at 25 and 26 ? They are having down years . Or Just Piscotty and Carson Kelly or throw Swarzak in to sweeten it. Why do this? Trade two OFs for Two OFs ? That doesn't make sense. I'd consider trading any/all of Melky/Avi/Swarzak for something like Carson Kelly + Oneil. Not sure HOW good Kelly is tho. He seems touted highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 12:51 PM) Why do this? Trade two OFs for Two OFs ? That doesn't make sense. I'd consider trading any/all of Melky/Avi/Swarzak for something like Carson Kelly + Oneil. Not sure HOW good Kelly is tho. He seems touted highly. Because we have to trade Melky and the Cards want hitting very badly right now. Avi is a FA in 2020 .Piscotty though older is not a free agent til 2023 and has a slightly longer track record than Avi . We trade Avi to take advantage of a breakout year and don't run the risk of him regressing. I also said Grichuk isn't necessary and Swarzak could be thrown in to get a prospect from the Cards. Right now Avi is worth more to the Cards than Piscotty is and if they want to maximize winning now then Melky and Swarzak help that. Like you said it also could be for all prospects but it never hurts to get a decent ML player once in a while who still has years of control and has shown to be a good offensive and competent defensive player. Perhaps reading the whole post you would see I was just throwing out an idea that wasn't etched in stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I think people should just save the Carson Kelly talk...he ain't goin' anywhere...not with Molina getting pretty long in the tooth. Perez would probably be more realistic than Kelly...but if I had to guess at any prospects it'd be one of their arms...and I'd start with Alcantara (which might be a long shot too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 04:09 PM) I think people should just save the Carson Kelly talk...he ain't goin' anywhere...not with Molina getting pretty long in the tooth. Perez would probably be more realistic than Kelly...but if I had to guess at any prospects it'd be one of their arms...and I'd start with Alcantara (which might be a long shot too). Molina isn't going anywhere he is owed 40m between '18 & '19 and still very good behind the dish even with an 81wRC+. If the cards want to cash in on Kelly now for someone like Avi it makes a lot of sense they've got a two year window before they have to "retool" again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 04:20 PM) Molina isn't going anywhere he is owed 40m between '18 & '19 and still very good behind the dish even with an 81wRC+. If the cards want to cash in on Kelly now for someone like Avi it makes a lot of sense they've got a two year window before they have to "retool" again. I still highly doubt it. Kelly is young and I can't see them giving him up for an outfielder/relief pitcher. If you have a talented two-way backstop that you plan on plugging in for your future behind Molina (those don't grow on trees)...unless they have more highly touted C in the system...just don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 04:09 PM) I think people should just save the Carson Kelly talk...he ain't goin' anywhere...not with Molina getting pretty long in the tooth. Perez would probably be more realistic than Kelly...but if I had to guess at any prospects it'd be one of their arms...and I'd start with Alcantara (which might be a long shot too). I agree. Sandy Alcantara, Magneuris Sierra and Delvin Perez are my favorite guys in that system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Yeah, Kelly isn't coming back. Fortunately the Sox have interesting names at catcher. I'd be asking for Perez, Sierra and Ryan Helsley for Avi and Swarzak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 06:26 PM) I'd be asking for Perez, Sierra and Ryan Helsley for Avi and Swarzak. Ha... well I guess it's good to aim high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 07:38 PM) Ha... well I guess it's good to aim high. Still lower than deals starting with Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 23, 2017 -> 12:38 AM) Ha... well I guess it's good to aim high. Bader would surely be in the deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Sox would be lucky to get ONE of Alcantara, Bader, Perez or O'Neill...and a low level prospect IMO. I understand you ask...but if I'm the Cards I'd laugh at wanting a combination of top 10 prospects. It's just extremely unlikely. Kelly and Reyes are pipedreams... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 22, 2017 -> 05:52 PM) Sox would be lucky to get ONE of Alcantara, Bader, Perez or O'Neill...and a low level prospect IMO. I understand you ask...but if I'm the Cards I'd laugh at wanting a combination of top 10 prospects. It's just extremely unlikely. Kelly and Reyes are pipedreams... Zero chance I deal Avi then. Baseball America doesn't have Alcantara in their top 10 and O'Neill has fallen out of most top 100 lists. Bader is having a good year but only Pipeline really values him. You're not gonna get a 26 year old OF with a 128 wRC+, league average defense and 2.5 years of control for that. The Cards just traded a soft-tossing lefty that projects as a #5 starter or middle reliever for O'Neill. Even with BABIP regression he's a likely 3 WAR guy this year. His WAR per game pace is as good or better than JD Martinez (who would've returned a lot if he weren't a rental), Giancarlo Stanton, Christian Yelich, and is comparable to Marcell Ozuna. Would you trade Marcell Ozuna for one of those guys? Absolutely not. Edited July 23, 2017 by Username Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I agree. Even if Avi were to regress, it is too risky to let him go for anything other than an elite prospect, because if that prospect fails and Garcia continues to realize the potential, which he has now demonstrated, that would be hard to live down. There is no hurry with making a decision about his future with this team. If he sustains success and is recognized as being a really good player, then they could consider trading him, in exchange for someone of comparable value. At this point, most of you feel that no team would be ready to provide that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox1917 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 If the Sox can get Bader, plus one wildcard type prospect, I'm all for trading Avi. I like Bader a ton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox1917 @ Jul 24, 2017 -> 02:16 AM) If the Sox can get Bader, plus one wildcard type prospect, I'm all for trading Avi. I like Bader a ton That to me is light. I'm not moving Avi unless its a top 50 prospect and an interesting arm or two back end top 100. Hes got two and a 1/3 seasons of control remaining, if he performs comparable to this year next he'll return a similar package next deadline and will have the track record to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 24, 2017 -> 10:12 AM) That to me is light. I'm not moving Avi unless its a top 50 prospect and an interesting arm or two back end top 100. Hes got two and a 1/3 seasons of control remaining, if he performs comparable to this year next he'll return a similar package next deadline and will have the track record to back it up. That seems to be a ton to give up for a player with a strong 100 games or so (really 80ish). Even with his year, age, and control, I'd be surprised if they got anything more than around a teams 10th best prospect (maybe a teams 10th and 20th). The only thing going for moving him is that teams outside of the contenders could have interest. I'm not sure how a team like Pittsburgh looks in the OF, but they would fit the profile in they need cost control, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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