Quintana

[steveno89]

That information is coming from the Braves side though. I think what this tells us is that the Braves are interested, but haven't made an offer that is close to what we all assume Hahn is asking in return.

 

Sox are unlikely to accept a pitching package like that. I think it ends up being a combination of pitching and position players that eventually get a deal done.

[SCCWS]

I didn't say exactly the same as sale, but rather a relatively similar to of package as sale and eaton.

 

Talks have been going on long enough to the point where haha will make a move when he knows he is being offered what the organization considers quintana's to value to be. A 28 year old lefty on a very reasonable contact that has been very healthy shouldn't come cheap.

 

Sale returned two top 15 prospects in moncada and kopech. Nobody will come close to offering that same level of talent for quintana, but I also think he is worth more than you are expecting.

 

You seem confused. You posted:

 

Sox won't deal Quintana for less than a package similar to what they got in exchange for Adam Eaton/Chris Sale, especially considering the lack of other good options on the market.

 

then you posted:

I didn't say exactly the same as sale, but rather a relatively similar to of package as sale and eaton

 

then you posted

 

Sale returned two top 15 prospects in moncada and kopech. Nobody will come close to offering that same level of talent for quintana

 

 

I agree with your last statement which is how I responded to the first one you posted. I think they will get about 60-75% of Moncada/Kopech. So maybe a 12-15 pick and a 20-25 + a 50-75.

[fathom]

Brewers just lost Chase Anderson to an oblique injury. Too bad they aren't all-in

[oldsox]

Brewers just lost Chase Anderson to an oblique injury. Too bad they aren't all-in

And the cubs lost Bryant for a while.

[southsider2k5]

That information is coming from the Braves side though. I think what this tells us is that the Braves are interested, but haven't made an offer that is close to what we all assume Hahn is asking in return.

 

Or the Sox are trying to get a bidding war going.

[Hatchetman]

Quintana's stats should be adjusted b/c he doesn't get the advantage of facing Sox hitters.

[Whisox05]

Plus thing with playing the yankees right now is sox get to see miguel andujar and possibly dustin fowler today with a callup. Maybe guys that might be on sox radar if yankees take a run at Quintana

[ChiSox59]

I've posted this before but I'll post again here. I have a buddy that is good friends with someone close to Braves organization. He told me in the winter that Atlanta was really interested but balked at trading Maitan or Acuna in the deal. I posted all of that here. This guy gets legit Braves info a lot but the White Sox/Quintana stuff always seemed off so I never "run" with it. I've heard heavy pitching packages as the rumored offers with the following names in play: Mike Soroka, Max Fried, Luiz Gohara, Akeel Morris, and Touki Toussant. I don't think Hahn would go for an all pitching package but Rogers and Ofman have both mentioned Braves interest as well as Atlanta Journal Constitution beat guy Dave O'Brien. Just FYI I guess.

 

Interesting names for sure. The Sox would pretty much have to have other prospect for prospect trades lined up if they plan on accepting a pitching heavy return for Q. Move a few pitching prospects to a pitching starved organization for a few hitting prospects. Seems unlikely.

[Bob Sacamano]

Plus thing with playing the yankees right now is sox get to see miguel andujar and possibly dustin fowler today with a callup. Maybe guys that might be on sox radar if yankees take a run at Quintana

 

Where did you see that he might get called up?

[BamaDoc]

Fowler, Andujar, Adams plus one more was what I want from Yankees for Q. All three 22 and in bigs or at AAA make them more appealing to me than a slightly higher ranked prospect who may be struggling at the A levels. Players that far away have higher injury/bust risk and even though they may have a higher ceiling, I would want more due to the risk.

[steveno89]

Fowler, Andujar, Adams plus one more was what I want from Yankees for Q. All three 22 and in bigs or at AAA make them more appealing to me than a slightly higher ranked prospect who may be struggling at the A levels. Players that far away have higher injury/bust risk and even though they may have a higher ceiling, I would want more due to the risk.

 

Nothing against any of those prospects, but I'd want more of 1-2 true blue chip prospects if I am dealing Quintana.

 

Fowler/Andujar/Adams likely would land a team Gray, but it feels light for Quintana.

[Eminor3rd]

I've posted this before but I'll post again here. I have a buddy that is good friends with someone close to Braves organization. He told me in the winter that Atlanta was really interested but balked at trading Maitan or Acuna in the deal. I posted all of that here. This guy gets legit Braves info a lot but the White Sox/Quintana stuff always seemed off so I never "run" with it. I've heard heavy pitching packages as the rumored offers with the following names in play: Mike Soroka, Max Fried, Luiz Gohara, Akeel Morris, and Touki Toussant. I don't think Hahn would go for an all pitching package but Rogers and Ofman have both mentioned Braves interest as well as Atlanta Journal Constitution beat guy Dave O'Brien. Just FYI I guess.

 

All that makes perfect sense.

 

I want Acuna SO bad though.

[Whisox05]

Where did you see that he might get called up?

 

 

Dustin Fowler has indeed been called up by the #Yankees. They plan to announce it later.

https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/880417085209366528

[bmags]

I've posted this before but I'll post again here. I have a buddy that is good friends with someone close to Braves organization. He told me in the winter that Atlanta was really interested but balked at trading Maitan or Acuna in the deal. I posted all of that here. This guy gets legit Braves info a lot but the White Sox/Quintana stuff always seemed off so I never "run" with it. I've heard heavy pitching packages as the rumored offers with the following names in play: Mike Soroka, Max Fried, Luiz Gohara, Akeel Morris, and Touki Toussant. I don't think Hahn would go for an all pitching package but Rogers and Ofman have both mentioned Braves interest as well as Atlanta Journal Constitution beat guy Dave O'Brien. Just FYI I guess.

 

I missed this, good stuff.

 

Tough decisions.

[username]

I missed this, good stuff.

 

Tough decisions.

 

Having seen what's happening with the Cubs this year (and the rest of the league) I'm starting to re-consider the need to focus on position players. Even the best core of hitters can't win without the pitching behind it.

 

Young pitching is in demand more than ever, and to be a winner year in and year out you have to have a ton of it. If we end up with an imbalance then we just trade our pitching surplus and/or sign guys to supplement.

 

Plus, then you don't have to overpay for pitchers on the FA market or trade market.

[Bob Sacamano]

Dustin Fowler has indeed been called up by the #Yankees. They plan to announce it later.

https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/880417085209366528

 

Thanks.

[striker]

Nothing against any of those prospects, but I'd want more of 1-2 true blue chip prospects if I am dealing Quintana.

 

Fowler/Andujar/Adams likely would land a team Gray, but it feels light for Quintana.

There is no such thing as a blue chip prospect. It's all about hype and luck. Buxton had more hype than Judge, which would you prefer to have now?

[LittleHurt05]

Having seen what's happening with the Cubs this year (and the rest of the league) I'm starting to re-consider the need to focus on position players. Even the best core of hitters can't win without the pitching behind it.

 

Young pitching is in demand more than ever, and to be a winner year in and year out you have to have a ton of it. If we end up with an imbalance then we just trade our pitching surplus and/or sign guys to supplement.

 

Plus, then you don't have to overpay for pitchers on the FA market or trade market.

 

But then you look at the Mets who have all the pitching and they can't keep it healthy. The Sox have been much better about keeping their guys healthy, but it still seems riskier

 

[southsider2k5]

Patrick Nolan‏ @SSS_pnoles 24h24 hours ago

 

Quintana metrics update:

ERA: 4.69 -> 4.37

FIP: 4.04 -> 4.01

DRA: 4.06 -> 3.97

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Having seen what's happening with the Cubs this year (and the rest of the league) I'm starting to re-consider the need to focus on position players. Even the best core of hitters can't win without the pitching behind it.

 

Young pitching is in demand more than ever, and to be a winner year in and year out you have to have a ton of it. If we end up with an imbalance then we just trade our pitching surplus and/or sign guys to supplement.

 

Plus, then you don't have to overpay for pitchers on the FA market or trade market.

Ultimately you need both and would ideally have a well-rounded team. I do think mid & small market clubs have to find a way to develop their own TOR starters, because signing those guys in free agency is typically cost prohibitive. If I'm the White Sox, I'm much more willing to gamble a big chunk of my payroll for a positional guy than a starter.

 

But going overly pitching heavy in terms of prospect accumulation comes at a cost. The success rate is extremely low due to natural attrition tied to arm/shoulder injuries. When committing high draft picks or cashing in on important trade assets, the opportunity cost of going pitching over hitting can be very real over the long-term. It's exactly why teams are placing a premium on high end positional talent. The other factor to consider is that it's easier to uncover a diamond in the rough on the pitching side. Two members of the Cubs World Series winning rotation were cast-offs or lesser known prospects. It's easier to teach a guy with good stuff how to harness it & learn how to pitch than it is to teach a positional guy with fringe tools or lacking place discipline how to be an effective hitter.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[bmags]

Having seen what's happening with the Cubs this year (and the rest of the league) I'm starting to re-consider the need to focus on position players. Even the best core of hitters can't win without the pitching behind it.

 

Young pitching is in demand more than ever, and to be a winner year in and year out you have to have a ton of it. If we end up with an imbalance then we just trade our pitching surplus and/or sign guys to supplement.

 

Plus, then you don't have to overpay for pitchers on the FA market or trade market.

 

I think it's a fools errand to constantly chase what the last WS team did.

 

That said, how many of the pitchers we have could be good for 5+ years with us? Maybe 1. Going all in on pitching may mean a too short window.

 

But if they feel strongly enough about this pitching, I don't know that you turn down a stronger package to get hitters. But I'd certainly weight the hitters as more attractive due to less variability.

[iamshack]

Ultimately you need both and would ideally have a well-rounded team. I do think mid & small market clubs have to find a way to develop their own TOR starters, because signing those guys in free agency is typically cost prohibitive. If I'm the White Sox, I'm much more willing to gamble a big chunk of my payroll for a positional guy than a starter.

 

But going overly pitching heavy in terms of prospect accumulation comes at a cost. The success rate is extremely low due to natural attrition tied to arm/shoulder injuries. When committing high draft picks or cashing in on important trade assets, the opportunity cost of going pitching over hitting can be very real over the long-term. It's exactly why teams are placing a premium on high end positional talent. The other factor to consider is that it's easier to uncover a diamond in the rough on the pitching side. Two members of the Cubs World Series winning rotation were cast-offs or lesser known prospects. It's easier to teach a guy with good stuff how to harness it & learn how to pitch than it is to teach a positional guy with fringe tools or lacking place discipline how to be an effective hitter.

This is an outstanding post.

 

Two things that were implicit in your post, but perhaps that I will add:

 

1) "You do you" - the White Sox seem to be very successful at developing pitching - much more so than with developing positional players - to me, that justifies a "lean" towards selecting undeveloped or underdeveloped pitching in drafts and when trading for prospects that are somewhat far away, while signing more developed position players or veteran position players in free agency and via trade.

 

2) Trends - sometimes enough teams go one way so as to create an opportunity to go the other way. If the rest of the league follows a trend of selecting positional player prospects such that a market inefficiency is created, by all means, we need to exploit it. This would be the same if the trend was towards pitching prospects and it left more positional players available.

[southsider2k5]

This is an outstanding post.

 

Two things that were implicit in your post, but perhaps that I will add:

 

1) "You do you" - the White Sox seem to be very successful at developing pitching - much more so than with developing positional players - to me, that justifies a "lean" towards selecting undeveloped or underdeveloped pitching in drafts and when trading for prospects that are somewhat far away, while signing more developed position players or veteran position players in free agency and via trade.

 

2) Trends - sometimes enough teams go one way so as to create an opportunity to go the other way. If the rest of the league follows a trend of selecting positional player prospects such that a market inefficiency is created, by all means, we need to exploit it. This would be the same if the trend was towards pitching prospects and it left more positional players available.

 

For the first, I would argue that the Sox could very well get better mileage by bringing in the positional prospects that someone else has put in the resources to draft and develop, versus themselves, in exchange for those things we develop well, pitching.

[iamshack]

For the first, I would argue that the Sox could very well get better mileage by bringing in the positional prospects that someone else has put in the resources to draft and develop, versus themselves, in exchange for those things we develop well, pitching.

Well this is why I said underdeveloped pitching was something we should acquire to develop, and then acquire more developed positional prospects or mlb players.

 

I think we are on the same page.

[Chicago White Sox]

Given the teams rumored to be involved for Q, it seems we'll have a shot of landing a blue chip OF prospect.

 

Yankees - Frazier

Astros - Tucker

Braves - Acuna

Dodgers - Verdugo

Cubs - Jimenez

 

So out of these five guys how would you rank them and who do you think is most likely available?