Quintana

[Dunt]

Not that interested in Frazier as the centerpiece. Torres, yes.

Rutherford yes if surrounded by enough other quality.

 

Rutherford has 1 HR this season. Give me Frazier all day.

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't know, I can't shake this part of the Sale trade.

 

We had the best AL pitcher on a cheap contract and return an incredible haul of the best prospect in baseball and a top 5 pitching prospect in baseball. And it was then filled out with a B- prospect and a C prospect.

 

Our value is off on either how much an elite prospect means in a deal or how much we value B prospects.

 

I think a headlined deal of Frazier/Adams is very realistic territory. But what's behind them (even with Swarzak included), is where I think it's hard to know but I would bet we see a worse return than Abreu/Andujar.

 

But maybe not maybe the fact that Abreu is so young makes him that 3rd piece.

 

I don't necessarily think the headliner will be so disappointing but the return after the headliner.

Look at Washington's rumored offer for Sale. Robles, Giolito, Lopez, & Dunning. I bet many of us would argue that's a better overall package than than what we ultimately accepted from Boston. I think problem here is that the Sox placed incredibly high rankings on Moncada & Kopech (rightfully so) that they didn't want to risk losing them over secondary pieces. There was an article that came out shortly after the trade that made it pretty clear that Dombrowski would have given up a little more than he ultimatlry did. Not Devers or Groome, but definitely better overall value than Basabe & Diaz. I also think there was some marketing going on and the Sox really wanted to say they traded Sale for the #1 prospect in baseball, although I'm sure this was a smaller consideration.

[hi8is]

Look at Washington's rumored offer for Sale. Robles, Giolito, Lopez, & Dunning. I bet many of us would argue that's a better overall package than than what we ultimately accepted from Boston. I think problem here is that the Sox placed incredibly high rankings on Moncada & Kopech (rightfully so) that they didn't want to risk losing them over secondary pieces. There was an article that came out shortly after the trade that made it pretty clear that Dombrowski would have given up a little more than he ultimatlry did. Not Devers or Groome, but definitely better overall value than Basabe & Diaz. I also think there was some marketing going on and the Sox really wanted to say they traded Sale for the #1 prospect in baseball, although I'm sure this was a smaller consideration.

I also think that a lot of us trade Sale to Boston rather than Washington was knowing we got 3/4ths the deal the Nationals offered in the Eaton deal.

[steveno89]

Look at Washington's rumored offer for Sale. Robles, Giolito, Lopez, & Dunning. I bet many of us would argue that's a better overall package than than what we ultimately accepted from Boston. I think problem here is that the Sox placed incredibly high rankings on Moncada & Kopech (rightfully so) that they didn't want to risk losing them over secondary pieces. There was an article that came out shortly after the trade that made it pretty clear that Dombrowski would have given up a little more than he ultimatlry did. Not Devers or Groome, but definitely better overall value than Basabe & Diaz. I also think there was some marketing going on and the Sox really wanted to say they traded Sale for the #1 prospect in baseball, although I'm sure this was a smaller consideration.

 

I do not recall hearing that the Nationals offered Robles + Giolito + Lopez + Dunning for Sale. That would be arguably a better return than we got from Boston.

 

I believe that Robles was in play for Sale, but likely either Giolito or Lopez + another piece or two, not both of them AND Dunning. Robles was not on the table for Eaton, otherwise I'm sure the Sox would have wanted him.

[steveno89]

I also think that a lot of us trade Sale to Boston rather than Washington was knowing we got 3/4ths the deal the Nationals offered in the Eaton deal.

 

The Sale negotiations laid most of the groundwork for the Eaton deal that followed. We knew exactly which prospects were in play from Washington's side.

[Whisox05]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/mully-and-hanley-show/

 

Jon heyman was on Mully and Hanley today talking Quintana. Its hour 2 of the show. Basically Jon says sox are asking high on him but he also says Quintana is one of the better dependable starters on the market. Jon said gray isn't that dependable plus he has less time control then Quintana. Said verlander is owed alot of money. Pretty much Quintana is the best you can get right now.

Edited July 10, 2017 by WhiteSoxLifer

[GreenSox]

I also think there was some marketing going on and the Sox really wanted to say they traded Sale for the #1 prospect in baseball, although I'm sure this was a smaller consideration.

I hope that doesn't come into the FO's thinking. Evaluate and get the best talent possible, regardless of public rankings. Those things are so fluid anyway, as the Sox should know.

Yes, the back end on the Sale deal was light. In the end though, Sox got such a premium on Eaton that I doubt taking that Nats deal for Sale plus whatever we would have gotten elsewhere for Eaton would have equated to the total return we got.

Edited July 10, 2017 by GreenSox

[bmags]

To me, the Eaton trade was more representative of don't follow the rankings than the Moncada/Kopech. Kopech at the time was thought to be a top 60 pitching prospect, but he had an unbelievable ceiling and fastball.

 

I wouldn't trade Moncada or Kopech straight up for any of the Eaton trade pieces.

[GGajewski18]

I do not recall hearing that the Nationals offered Robles + Giolito + Lopez + Dunning for Sale. That would be arguably a better return than we got from Boston.

 

I believe that Robles was in play for Sale, but likely either Giolito or Lopez + another piece or two, not both of them AND Dunning. Robles was not on the table for Eaton, otherwise I'm sure the Sox would have wanted him.

 

I'm pretty sure that was the rumored deal for Sale because everyone on twitter was saying that the Sox got Eaton for one less player than the Nats proposed deal to the Sox for Sale.

[Y2Jimmy0]

This is a good point on The Yanks past, but I don't think the Sox want to wait til the Last couple days of June.

 

I really think people are goin g to be disappointed in the return for Q.

 

 

I agree with Brian here but only because people have unrealistic expectations. I know that baseball teams aren't sitting around looking at publication top prospect lists to make deals. However, when looking at a prospective deal, I think a top 30ish prospect, another back end top 100, an org top 10, and an upside flyer is realistic for Quintana. He's not Chris Sale. He'll bring back a lot though. After reading Heyman's piece today, it seems like Hahn is playing this thing perfectly. It's the same script as Jake Peavy and Chris Sale beforehand. They are asking for the sun and the moon and ultimately will accept "the sun". By asking the Yanks for Torres (Hahn likely knows this isn't happening) and Clint Frazier (Possible real #1 target) he's setting an unrealistic bar. Hopefully, Cashman agrees to Frazier and then you work in 2 guys instead of a monster package and so on.

 

Something like Frazier, Adams, Florial, and Abreu would be a good deal for Sox but I do believe the fan base would be underwhelmed. I could see something like Corey Ray, Brandon Woodruff and Isan Diaz as well. I think that would be looked at as a "poor deal" but in reality it might be the best that they can do.

[Chicago White Sox]

I agree with Brian here but only because people have unrealistic expectations. I know that baseball teams aren't sitting around looking at publication top prospect lists to make deals. However, when looking at a prospective deal, I think a top 30ish prospect, another back end top 100, an org top 10, and an upside flyer is realistic for Quintana. He's not Chris Sale. He'll bring back a lot though. After reading Heyman's piece today, it seems like Hahn is playing this thing perfectly. It's the same script as Jake Peavy and Chris Sale beforehand. They are asking for the sun and the moon and ultimately will accept "the sun". By asking the Yanks for Torres (Hahn likely knows this isn't happening) and Clint Frazier (Possible real #1 target) he's setting an unrealistic bar. Hopefully, Cashman agrees to Frazier and then you work in 2 guys instead of a monster package and so on.

 

Something like Frazier, Adams, Florial, and Abreu would be a good deal for Sox but I do believe the fan base would be underwhelmed. I could see something like Corey Ray, Brandon Woodruff and Isan Diaz as well. I think that would be looked at as a "poor deal" but in reality it might be the best that they can do.

That Yankees deal would be incredible IMO, but that Brewers deal would underwhelm me quite a bit. Ray has been terrible this year and in BA's Top 100 chat today it sounds like he's unwilling/unable to make adjustments, although I do like the other two pieces.

 

I still think someone ultimately ponies up an elite positional prospect for Quintana or we take a semi-depth package like you highlighted from the Yankees.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[oldsox]

I think it's a three-team race between the Dodgers, Yankees and Rockies. The Astros are completely unrealistic and underwhelming. The Braves and Brewers will refuse to include their best prospects. And I don't see a Sox-Cubs blockbuster coming together.

Rockies: Ryan McMahon has vaulted up the prospect list this year, but Rox reluctant to move him, because Arenado is FA after 2018. But they need to win now. Rily Pint has been a disappointment. They still have a good young catcher who just went back to AAA. Dahl has been out all year. Rodgers is on DL again after getting beaned.

 

Just don't see it happening.

[GreenSox]

Something like Frazier, Adams, Florial, and Abreu would be a good deal for Sox but I do believe the fan base would be underwhelmed. I could see something like Corey Ray, Brandon Woodruff and Isan Diaz as well. I think that would be looked at as a "poor deal" but in reality it might be the best that they can do.

I think those are acceptable returns and probably realistic; but is Hahn willing to come down that much? He wasn't in the winter.

You could probably throw the Astros in the mix; leave out Tucker and Martes, and they could put a deal together that is similar to the Brewer deal (Fisher, Whitley and whatever else, e.g.)

[ChiSox59]

I agree with Brian here but only because people have unrealistic expectations. I know that baseball teams aren't sitting around looking at publication top prospect lists to make deals. However, when looking at a prospective deal, I think a top 30ish prospect, another back end top 100, an org top 10, and an upside flyer is realistic for Quintana. He's not Chris Sale. He'll bring back a lot though. After reading Heyman's piece today, it seems like Hahn is playing this thing perfectly. It's the same script as Jake Peavy and Chris Sale beforehand. They are asking for the sun and the moon and ultimately will accept "the sun". By asking the Yanks for Torres (Hahn likely knows this isn't happening) and Clint Frazier (Possible real #1 target) he's setting an unrealistic bar. Hopefully, Cashman agrees to Frazier and then you work in 2 guys instead of a monster package and so on.

 

Something like Frazier, Adams, Florial, and Abreu would be a good deal for Sox but I do believe the fan base would be underwhelmed. I could see something like Corey Ray, Brandon Woodruff and Isan Diaz as well. I think that would be looked at as a "poor deal" but in reality it might be the best that they can do.

 

Yanks deal is solid, but that Brewers deal - you may as well keep Q. You can get that deal (not same players, obviously) when Q has far less control.

[Chicago White Sox]

I was on an Astros message board yesterday and a poster alluded to Luhnow saying that Tucker & Whitely were both untouchables. That would leave their big trade chips as Fisher, Martes, & Perez. Fisher, plus one of those pitchers, plus Yordan Alvarez would not be enough for me. Don't get me wrong, Fisher is certaintly intriguing, but he seems way too risky to be the positional headliner in a Quintana deal.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think those are acceptable returns and probably realistic; but is Hahn willing to come down that much? He wasn't in the winter.

You could probably throw the Astros in the mix; leave out Tucker and Martes, and they could put a deal together that is similar to the Brewer deal (Fisher, Whitley and whatever else, e.g.)

 

 

I wouldn't personally make an Astros deal without Kyle Tucker included.

[Chicago White Sox]

I wouldn't personally make an Astros deal without Kyle Tucker included.

Agree with this.

[Bob Sacamano]

Really wish we could fast-forward 3 weeks (actually, just the time where I am at work lol).

[oneofthemikes]

I wouldn't personally make an Astros deal without Kyle Tucker included.

 

This.

 

I've been an enormous Kyle Tucker fan since before he was drafted. I was really bummed that he wasn't still available when the Sox picked. In my opinion, I don't think I'd pull the trigger on a deal that wasn't headlined by Tucker. Maybe RH views things different though.

[hi8is]

Really wish we could fast-forward 3 weeks (actually, just the time where I am at work lol).

+1000

[Bob Sacamano]

+1000

 

Can't fast-forward through the good parts of summer.

[Jake]

Yeah I can see exactly why the Astros would talk tough about Tucker being untradeable but it's hard to imagine them passing up on such an obvious improvement to their already-good World Series chances all because the Sox insisted on a 20 year who just got his first taste of AA. Ultimately if you want to make a deal that is so clearly good for a championship-type season, you have to be willing to have lost the deal when you look back a few years later. I doubt Cub fans really want to dump Epstein all because of the Chapman-Torres deal. Everyone knew how it was going to look.

[steveno89]

Yanks deal is solid, but that Brewers deal - you may as well keep Q. You can get that deal (not same players, obviously) when Q has far less control.

 

That Brewers deal is light for Quintana.

 

Frazier + Adams + Andujar + Abreu is a solid, but not spectacular deal. I would not be too upset, but we all are hoping for more.

 

Hahn is not taking demands from "Tucker + Martes + Musgrove" level down to one headliner and secondary pieces. Sox are smart not to panic and hold out for the trade package they need.

[southsider2k5]

I wouldn't personally make an Astros deal without Kyle Tucker included.

 

This is the bottom line.

[iamshack]

This is the bottom line.

I dunno...I saw the same type of posts about Meadows. If we had accepted a Meadows-headlined deal, I think people would be freaking out about him right now.

 

I'd definitely like an elite headliner, but if it was backed by enough high quality depth I would be willing to entertain a deal without any one particular guy.

 

Problem is, there aren't a whole lot of teams with that kind of system...maybe the Yankees, Braves, and Astros.