In The Meantime

[Lillian]

The unanticipated emergence of offensive production from Avi, Davidson, Leury and Sanchez means that the Sox may not have to completely tear it down, in order to rebuild. Although probably no one expects Avi to win a batting title, for which he is currently in the lead, he does appear to be a legitimate offensive weapon.

Davidson's 17 homers, in just 196 at bats, represent a home run, every 11.5 at bats, which puts him in the very top echelon of sluggers. If he is for real, the Sox could be just one left handed bat short of a very formidable middle of the order. Leury and Sanchez now appear to both be at least adequate offensive contributors, while filling two important defensive positions. It should be noted that all 4 of them are still young enough to be part of the core, going forward.

 

It's great that they have the next wave of players coming, which should afford them an opportunity to realize the stated goal of "sustained success". When Moncada, Robert, Collins, Burger and some of the other very promising youngsters are ready, they could have a terrific core, going forward, however that probably won't happen until 2020.

In the meantime, there may be a way to compete as early as next year, providing they don't trade Quintana, a move for which there now appears to be much less urgency.

 

If they can fill that seemingly perennial need for a middle of the order left handed bat, and find at least 2 starters, out of that stacked pipeline, to fill out the rotation of Rodon and Quintana, couldn't they compete in the very winnable Central Division?

Among the top prospects, who are the two most likely to be able to contribute to next year's starting rotation? Giolito, Kopech, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Fulmer and ???

 

What do think of the following moves?:

1) Trade Frazier, Melky and Robertson

2) Keep the young relievers and make either Jones or Kahnle the closer.

3) Sign a veteran free agent, left handed hitting, high OBP slugger to play either Left, First or DH. "Caulfield" suggested a first baseman, which could make sense.

 

Starting lineup next year:

 

CF Leury Garcia, or maybe Engel has figured it out.

RF Avi Garcia

1B/DH Abreu

1B/DH LH Bat?

3B Davidson

SS Anderson

2B Sanchez

LF Delmonico

C Navaerez/Smith

Edited June 23, 2017 by Lillian

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

The Sox are 8th in the AL in runs scored per game. That is absolutely shocking to me. I thought they were a lock for bottom 2 in the AL this year with this lineup. If they maintain an average offense for the next few years, they will be competitive sooner than most think assuming the next wave of young pitching is as good as advertised.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Also, a +9 run differential 71 games into the season is another thing I would not have anticipated.

[Lillian]

Some of you may think that Moncada should be part of next year's lineup, but I'd prefer that they hold him back, until he forces the issue. It would be nice to have him come with the rest of that young core, and delay his service time, toward free agency. He really needs to get the strike outs down, and improve his defense. I still think that he would be better suited in the outfield, where he could utilize his speed and arm.

[Chicago White Sox]

Here are your problems:

 

1) You're assuming that all of Avi, Davidson, Leury, & Sanchez will maintain starter-quality players. That remains to be seen and very unlikely IMO.

 

2) Starting Yolmer Sanchez over Yoan Moncada is crazy to me. Moncada can be a special player, Sanchez can not. Not much to debate there.

 

3) Young pitching will go through growing pains. You can't assume guys like Lopez & Giolito will come up and immediately be productive starters.

 

4) Not dealing Quintana & Kahnle (assuming value is there) is poor asset management. They can bring in high-end talent that better fits our projected competitive window.

 

6) The system has gotten better but still need's an influx of talent, especially on the positional side. It's the reason we're rebuilding in the first place and you don't suddenly jump ship because of a weak division and a few early hits. The goal is a deep system that will consistently provide waves of talent.

 

7) You are obsesssed with left-handed, middle of the order power bats. I don't think I've seen a post of yours without mentioning adding one

Edited June 23, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[Lillian]

Here are your problems:

 

1) You're assuming that all of Avi, Davidson, Leury, & Sanchez will maintain starter-quality players. That remains to be seen and very unlikely IMO.

 

2) Starting Yolmer Sanchez over Yoan Moncada is crazy to me. Moncada can be a special player, Sanchez can not. Not much to debate there.

 

3) Young pitching will go through growing pains. You can't assume guys like Lopez & Giolito will come up and immediately be productive starters.

 

4) Not dealing Quintana & Kahnle (assuming value is there) is poor asset management. They can bring in high-end talent that better fits our projected competitive window.

 

6) The system has gotten better but still need's an influx of talent, especially on the positional side. It's the reason we're rebuilding in the first place and you don't suddenly jump ship because of a weak division and a few early hits. The goal is a deep system that will consistently provide waves of talent.

 

7) You are obsesssed with left-handed, middle of the order power bats. I don't think I've seen a post of yours without mentioning adding one

 

According to some of Hostetler's and Hahn's comments, the front office shares my "obsession". The reason that it has been such a focus of mine is that the Sox have had such a long drought, when it comes to filling that need.

Of course, I agree that Moncada is going to be a better hitter than Sanchez. However, as I previously posted, I don't think that he is ready.

 

Part of my motive for suggesting this entire scenario is to avoid rushing some of the prospects. It takes most young players a while to figure out Major League pitching. Perhaps this is more true today, than ever before, given the variety and quality of the pitching that they face, in the Big Leagues. I'm not in favor of bringing up guys too fast, only to face the inevitable dilemma of having to sign them to big free agent contracts, right after they have finally figured out. Matt and Avi may be just two such examples of players taking a while to "figure it out". Fortunately, Davidson wasn't brought too soon and therefore still has plenty of time before he becomes a free agent. In Avi's case, the Sox wasted a couple of years of service time.

 

On the other hand, it's possible that some hitters might not ever figure it out, unless they see enough Major League pitching. It is indeed a real dilemma. It would be nice if they could be exposed to such pitching, without being in the Majors, and burning through their service time.

[Chicago White Sox]

According to some of Hostetler's and Hahn's comments, the front office shares my "obsession". The reason that it has been such a focus of mine is that the Sox have had such a long drought, when it comes to filling that need.

Of course, I agree that Moncada is going to be a better hitter than Sanchez. However, as I previously posted, I don't think that he is ready.

 

Part of my motive for suggesting this entire scenario is to avoid rushing some of the prospects. It takes most young players a while to figure out Major League pitching. Perhaps this is more true today, than ever before, given the variety and quality of the pitching that they face, in the Big Leagues. I'm not in favor of bringing up guys too fast, only to face the inevitable dilemma of having to sign them to big free agent contracts, right after they have finally figured out. Matt and Avi may be just two such examples of players taking a while to "figure it out". Fortunately, Davidson wasn't brought too soon and therefore still has plenty of time before he becomes a free agent. In Avi's case, the Sox wasted a couple of years of service time.

 

On the other hand, it's possible that some hitters might not ever figure it out, unless they see enough Major League pitching. It is indeed a real dilemma. It would be nice if they could be exposed to such pitching, without being in the Majors, and burning through their service time.

Look, I get the obsession with a middle of the order, left-handed bat, I was simply teasing you. I would love myself another Jim Thome anchoring our lineup. I just don't think it's time to go out and pay market rate for that.

 

I do think you need to accept the fact that most players need some development time at the major league level before they figure it out. Can't just keep Moncada down there in AAA for another season and expect him to be a fully-formed player. He'll go through his growing pains and will need to make adjustments or fail like most young players. The benefit of a rebuild is you can give this first wave some time without putting undue pressure on them for immediate results. Look how well it's worked so far for Davidson, Sanchez, & Luery.

 

There is no reason to rush this process. I want to win as badly as anyone, but like I said previously you don't change direction mid trip because of a few early hits and what you expect to be a weak division. We're trying to build towards sustained success, not to take advantage of what could be a one year window of opportunity (and I still think you're sleeping on Cleveland). Stay the course and we'll all be happy in two or three years.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[iamshack]

I agree with CWS...we should look at some of these things for what they are - unexpected and pleasant surprises which hopefully will speed up the path we are on - not a reason to alter that plan.

 

The success of these guys should not in any way cause us to change anything. This biggest issue thus far is the guy currently playing the position slated for the League's #1 prospect may be having a breakout season. There are far worse problems to have, and we can work around that.

[bmags]

I agree with CWS too.

 

One thing that has changed for me is I looked at the Phillies as a positive development. They competed earlier and more than expected last year, and believed the hype to some level on the production they got. They have been snake bitten with injuries, but just not seeing returns.

 

I'd prefer sox not believe in this production until next year if it continues. And if someone does come-a knocking on Leury garcia with a young B- prospect with a plus tool, then sell sell sell.

 

Avi, I admit, I don't know what to do with. I want to just keep him and see what's up.

[iamshack]

I agree with CWS too.

 

One thing that has changed for me is I looked at the Phillies as a positive development. They competed earlier and more than expected last year, and believed the hype to some level on the production they got. They have been snake bitten with injuries, but just not seeing returns.

 

I'd prefer sox not believe in this production until next year if it continues. And if someone does come-a knocking on Leury garcia with a young B- prospect with a plus tool, then sell sell sell.

 

Avi, I admit, I don't know what to do with. I want to just keep him and see what's up.

Same with Matt. Do we realize he is up to an .886 OPS now?

[bmags]

Same with Matt. Do we realize he is up to an .886 OPS now?

 

Yeah it's just incredible. I am waiting to see how hell do full time at 3rd, but it's really cool he is able to focus this much at DH. Often seems like an issue when we've put guys there out of the field. I don't think we'd get anything for matt so good that it's worth jumping on instead of letting him play.

 

If he fails, we didn't expect him to do this anyway, not really a setback. If he keeps it up, we have much needed power and his ability to play DH isn't blocking anyone.

[caulfield12]

Same with Matt. Do we realize he is up to an .886 OPS now?

 

As a DH, he's around a 2 war guy, but maybe 2.5-3.0 if he can play the position of 3b at around league average.

[chitownsportsfan]

As a DH, he's around a 2 war guy, but maybe 2.5-3.0 if he can play the position of 3b at around league average.

 

 

 

Uh no. A league average defensive 3b with a 128 wRC+ is a 4 WAR player. That said, way too early to say Matt is that.

[TheFutureIsNear]

In the meantime...just be patient and wait it out. Don't rush it with forced signings to try and compete early, especially when the team clearly still won't be good enough imo.

[Jose Abreu]

I think Moncada will be the everyday 2B by the end of this season, and thus on Opening Day as well.

[iamshack]

I think Moncada will be the everyday 2B by the end of this season, and thus on Opening Day as well.

PUT HIM IN CENTER

[caulfield12]

Uh no. A league average defensive 3b with a 128 wRC+ is a 4 WAR player. That said, way too early to say Matt is that.

 

But how likely is that scenario...? And how many GP at 3B are reflected in his current defensive WAR numbers already?

[Knackattack]

I want to believe in Davidson being real, it's just really odd that he struggled so hard out of nowhere in 2014/15 but the line he is hitting at is pretty much what he has done the rest of his minors career

[BigHurt3515]

I want to believe in Davidson being real, it's just really odd that he struggled so hard out of nowhere in 2014/15 but the line he is hitting at is pretty much what he has done the rest of his minors career

 

I believe it is all in Davidson's head. He probably thinks he is too good for AAA and got down on himself when he didn't make the team when we traded for him. Then he struggles and presses way too much to try and prove himself and bam he sucks.

[Knackattack]

I believe it is all in Davidson's head. He probably thinks he is too good for AAA and got down on himself when he didn't make the team when we traded for him. Then he struggles and presses way too much to try and prove himself and bam he sucks.

Could be, he is considered a rookie I think yeah? 35HR and an .850 OPS might win him RoY

[witesoxfan]

Matt Davidson is also still striking out 39% of the time. That is a problem. Happy he is producing the way he is, but that number is crazy.

[Jose Abreu]

I want to believe in Davidson being real, it's just really odd that he struggled so hard out of nowhere in 2014/15 but the line he is hitting at is pretty much what he has done the rest of his minors career

The new baseballs are probably a big boost to his numbers.

[caulfield12]

1057/3510 in milb, 386 walks

107/274 in MLB career, just 22 walks

 

ISO 277 vs 179 (milb)

.259, 36, 92 projected for full season of nearly 500 at bats

 

 

[bmags]

I believe it is all in Davidson's head. He probably thinks he is too good for AAA and got down on himself when he didn't make the team when we traded for him. Then he struggles and presses way too much to try and prove himself and bam he sucks.

 

This is how I feel to, and I have thought it would all unravel after his first cold streak but he keeps battling back. THis is one of the things that I want to attribute to RR, I think he gets these players prepared to struggle and ready to battle out of it.

[iamshack]

The new baseballs are probably a big boost to his numbers.

I dunno...his issue seems to be hitting the ball, not how hard he hits it when he does hit it.

 

It isn't like this new ball is larger or something.