Can Illinois Survive?

[RockRaines]

We get the joy of not having the shame of being from Indiana and calling ourselves Hoosiers

 

 

(Illinois is definitely a tire fire)

Illinois is, but the immediate chicago area isnt. The suburbs surrounding Chicago are flourishing.

[southsider2k5]

Property tax in chicago is pretty low. People are fleeing because of the school system, the ease of public transportation into the city and MUCH cheaper rent. Cities with main rail lines like western springs, Elmhurst etc have extremely high taxes but people are moving and building in droves because the school systems are awesome.

 

Characterizing it as "really bad" is overreaction. Residential construction is way up and gentrification is increasing (which is forcing many people out). If improving the quality of housing and neighborhoods is a negative to you, then yes its very bad.

 

Even in the City the property taxes are 6-7%, while in the burbs it can push 10. That isn't even starting to count the sheer amount of taxes and fees on pretty much anything and everything that the City has.

[StrangeSox]

an article in the Trib from earlier this year on the dropping population in Illinois:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/b...1220-story.html

 

 

"In general, I think the (slowed growth) is a combination of lower births and higher deaths," he said. "The lower births can be chalked up to the recession and post-recession period, as young people and millennials are putting off having kids. The question is, 'Will they have them?' "

 

While Illinois has exhibited a long-standing pattern of losing residents to other states, traditionally births, in addition to migration from other countries, have balanced the loss.

 

More than any other city, Chicago has depended on Mexican immigrants to balance the sluggish growth of its native-born population, and during the 1990s, immigration accounted for most of Chicago's population growth. After 2007, however, Mexican-born populations began to fall across all the nation's major metropolitan areas. Unlike Chicago, most of those cities managed to make up for the loss with the growth of their native populations.

 

Now, Illinois residents are mostly leaving for Sun Belt states — those with the country's warmest climates, like Texas, Arizona and Florida. During the years after the economic recession of the mid-2000s, migration to those states paused but has started up again as states in the South and West have better job opportunities and more affordable housing. Texas, in fact, attracts the greatest number of Illinois residents, followed by Florida, Indiana, California and Arizona, according to 2013 Internal Revenue Service migration data.

 

Leading the exodus to warmer states is the black population, in search of more stable incomes, safe neighborhoods and prosperity. Between 2014 and 2015, more than 9,000 black residents left Cook County.

 

But it's not just the weather driving residents away. Job and business opportunities are stronger in neighboring states, sending more Illinois residents to other parts of the Midwest than vice versa, said Michael Lucci, vice president of policy at the right-leaning Illinois Policy Institute. Among them are younger, working-age adults, who make up some of the largest groups leaving the state, he said.

 

I freely admit that if not for nearly all of our friends and family being in the Chicago area, my wife and I would have fled to somewhere on the west coast already.

 

Gonna be interesting to see what increasing temperatures do to all of the migration currently heading to the sunbelt over the next few decades though.

 

[RockRaines]

Even in the City the property taxes are 6-7%, while in the burbs it can push 10. That isn't even starting to count the sheer amount of taxes and fees on pretty much anything and everything that the City has.

Chicago's rate is lower than just about everywhere else surrounding it. The burbs push higher than 10, much higher.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/data/ct...-htmlstory.html

Edited June 30, 2017 by RockRaines

[southsider2k5]

Chicago's rate is lower than just about everywhere else surrounding it. The burbs push higher than 10, much higher.

 

Meanwhile a 45 minute drive from downtown, mine are

[RockRaines]

Meanwhile a 45 minute drive from downtown, mine are

Cool. How are the public schools?

 

Also, how did you get a lower rate than everyone else around you? I need that tax lawyer

 

http://www.stats.indiana.edu/dms4/propertytaxes.asp

Edited June 30, 2017 by RockRaines

[southsider2k5]

Cool. How are the public schools?

 

My kids are going to graduate high school with something like a year to a year and a half of college credits.

[StrangeSox]

I'm sort of skeptical that MC is only 45 minutes from downtown Chicago. Maybe in the middle of the night with no traffic or road construction?

 

 

ss I was just giving you some inter-state rivalry ribbing!

Edited June 30, 2017 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

Cool. How are the public schools?

 

Also, how did you get a lower rate than everyone else around you? I need that tax lawyer

 

http://www.stats.indiana.edu/dms4/propertytaxes.asp

 

You are looking at gross rates. Property taxes on primary residences are capped at 1% of Net Assessed Value.

 

http://www.in.gov/dlgf/8527.htm

 

The next step in the calculation of your property tax bill involves the application of the appropriate cap. Remember, homestead taxes are capped at 1 percent of gross assessed value, other residential and agricultural land property at 2 percent and all other property at 3 percent. If the taxes due after applying state and local homestead credits are still over the cap, the taxpayer receives a third credit to bring the tax liability down to the cap. In the provided example, the gross tax liability is $1,152.28. The local and state credits reduce this liability to $688.76. This amount must be compared against the cap amount, which is shown on Table 2 of the tax bill (more on this later).

[RockRaines]

My kids are going to graduate high school with something like a year to a year and a half of college credits.

That doesnt answer the question. It's easy to look up the rating and see immediately why people move to communities outside of chicago even though the taxes are high. People arent scrambling to move close to 4's and 5's, they want 9's and 10's.

[RockRaines]

You are looking at gross rates. Property taxes on primary residences are capped at 1% of Net Assessed Value.

 

http://www.in.gov/dlgf/8527.htm

Ah so we were speaking two different languages, got it. That makes more sense.

[southsider2k5]

That doesnt answer the question. It's easy to look up the rating and see immediately why people move to communities outside of chicago even though the taxes are high. People arent scrambling to move close to 4's and 5's, they want 9's and 10's.

 

There are plenty of great schools here in communities that are a fraction of the price of the Illinois burbs. Munster, Crown Point, Chesterton, Valparaiso, etc. are all A rated school districts in upper class towns in The Region.

[StrangeSox]

Republican Bill Brady the new Illinois Senate GOP leader

[StrangeSox]

Illinois tax system/rates baffles me because we seem to have the highest taxes on just about everything but not noticeably better public services. I don't get how other states that aren't bare-bones services wise get their funding and why that doesn't seem to be able to work here.

[southsider2k5]

There are plenty of great schools here in communities that are a fraction of the price of the Illinois burbs. Munster, Crown Point, Chesterton, Valparaiso, etc. are all A rated school districts in upper class towns in The Region.

 

Past that there are a few amazing private school opportunities at the absolute top end of things. LaLumiere and Culver Military Academy are known nationwide for their academic programs. A Catholic School like Andrean which is really close to the state line attracts people from all over the place, including Illinois because of its programing. Marquette in Michigan City is A rated, and has a 100% college acceptance rate. Bishop Noll in Hammond is another one that comes to mind.

[RockRaines]

There are plenty of great schools here in communities that are a fraction of the price of the Illinois burbs. Munster, Crown Point, Chesterton, Valparaiso, etc. are all A rated school districts in upper class towns in The Region.

I'm sure there are. And if you want to drive an hour from chicago directly west you could find some more affordable tax rates and housing as well. My point is people will gladly pay higher taxes to be close to chicago if there are excellent schools, clean and safe towns and robust village and commercial services. I can make it to chicago in around 10 min, 20 if I walk to the train. I gladly pay what I pay for that.

[Iwritecode]

I freely admit that if not for nearly all of our friends and family being in the Chicago area, my wife and I would have fled to somewhere on the west coast already.

 

Gonna be interesting to see what increasing temperatures do to all of the migration currently heading to the sunbelt over the next few decades though.

 

A couple of years ago when I was job searching we were seriously considering moving out of state. Friends and family is mostly what has kept us here. That and not wanting to uproot our kids from their schools. But with our youngest turning 16 our reasons for staying are becoming less and less. I could see the possibility of us leaving the state within 10 years.

 

Although the idea of starting completely over in a new city/state is a bit scary. At least here we know where to turn if we need help with something and we've built a good relationship with a lot of businesses over the years. Banks, repair shops, construction companies, etc...

[RockRaines]

Past that there are a few amazing private school opportunities at the absolute top end of things. LaLumiere and Culver Military Academy are known nationwide for their academic programs. A Catholic School like Andrean which is really close to the state line attracts people from all over the place, including Illinois because of its programing. Marquette in Michigan City is A rated, and has a 100% college acceptance rate. Bishop Noll in Hammond is another one that comes to mind.

Do Indiana taxes pay for tuition into those private schools?

 

Just checked Culver. No, and its 50k/year to send a kid there. Probably cheaper to pay property taxes.

Edited June 30, 2017 by RockRaines

[bmags]

Illinois tax system/rates baffles me because we seem to have the highest taxes on just about everything but not noticeably better public services. I don't get how other states that aren't bare-bones services wise get their funding and why that doesn't seem to be able to work here.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion...530-column.html

 

Issue 1 is pensions.

 

Issue 2 is the low income tax created a hide the ball series of taxes that imo have been incredibly regressive. Property taxes as a result, are exhorbant. And as tribune has shown, regressive. Sales tax - > regressive. Soda tax -> regressive. Red lights? Regressive. Cigarette tax -> regressive.

 

You couldn't pick a stupider tax model. Yet, and the worry is legitimate, if the income tax was revised upward, there is legitimate concern the others would not go away. I'm sympathetic to that.

 

So Illinois as crazy stupid spending state, true with pensions, not so true with everything. Illinois as idiotic revenue model state? 100%.

[southsider2k5]

I'm sure there are. And if you want to drive an hour from chicago directly west you could find some more affordable tax rates and housing as well. My point is people will gladly pay higher taxes to be close to chicago if there are excellent schools, clean and safe towns and robust village and commercial services. I can make it to chicago in around 10 min, 20 if I walk to the train. I gladly pay what I pay for that.

 

Plenty of people I worked with in Chicago made the same commute I did. Those are the ones I will never understand. They pay a multiple of what people pay out here for a fraction of the return. I get all of the things you mentioned, as well as being 5 minutes from the beach. My annual tax payment is less than most people's monthly tax bill.

[StrangeSox]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion...530-column.html

 

Issue 1 is pensions.

 

Issue 2 is the low income tax created a hide the ball series of taxes that imo have been incredibly regressive. Property taxes as a result, are exhorbant. And as tribune has shown, regressive. Sales tax - > regressive. Soda tax -> regressive. Red lights? Regressive. Cigarette tax -> regressive.

 

You couldn't pick a stupider tax model. Yet, and the worry is legitimate, if the income tax was revised upward, there is legitimate concern the others would not go away. I'm sympathetic to that.

 

So Illinois as crazy stupid spending state, true with pensions, not so true with everything. Illinois as idiotic revenue model state? 100%.

 

Good info, thanks. I know that, in general, taxes at the state level are regressive across the country.

 

Is Illinois pension model really that much more generous than other deep blue states like Cali or Mass?

[RockRaines]

Plenty of people I worked with in Chicago made the same commute I did. Those are the ones I will never understand. They pay a multiple of what people pay out here for a fraction of the return. I get all of the things you mentioned, as well as being 5 minutes from the beach. My annual tax payment is less than most people's monthly tax bill.

I agree with that. If I lived 45-an hour out of the city I would gladly look at other areas. s*** my place in Benton Harbor area is about 1.5 hours from downtown (though our taxes arent all that low). But I get anyone living from Aurora on in.

[southsider2k5]

Do Indiana taxes pay for tuition into those private schools?

 

Just checked Culver. No, and its 50k/year to send a kid there. Probably cheaper to pay property taxes.

 

Indiana has a voucher system where you can get a voucher to participating privates. That doesn't exist in Illinois.

[RockRaines]

Good info, thanks. I know that, in general, taxes at the state level are regressive across the country.

 

Is Illinois pension model really that much more generous than other deep blue states like Cali or Mass?

Illinois could dig themselves out of a huge hole if they legalized recreational marijuana....

[RockRaines]

Indiana has a voucher system where you can get a voucher to participating privates. That doesn't exist in Illinois.

How many kids can attend a place like Culver on a voucher? It says on their site only 1/4 of new students qualify for need based financial aid.

 

I am really enjoying their website, I've never heard of this place.

Edited June 30, 2017 by RockRaines